Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[mb88]

First few days of the revised 276 haven’t been too promising. Running times stupidly tight which is being exacerbated by the roadworks at Bathgate Morrisons leading to some buses being up to 50 minutes late with the Loganlea ones catching up with the ones coming to/from Bathgate. Capacity issues as well with drivers reporting ‘failed to clear’ on a regular basis with same number of passengers forced onto half the number of buses. Complaints from customers who liked the quick route it previously took between Livingston and Broxburn now having to go on a tour of half of Livingston.

 

[overthewater]

Rumour has it that LCB will be going back to Fauldhouse, possibly with a 281 that goes via Bathgate, Blackburn and Livingston Village.

I find that highly unlikely given half the route is covered by the 275 which has just been withdrawn and the other half they tried before with no success.

I have to agree,

First few days of the revised 276 haven’t been too promising. Running times stupidly tight which is being exacerbated by the roadworks at Bathgate Morrisons leading to some buses being up to 50 minutes late with the Loganlea ones catching up with the ones coming to/from Bathgate. Capacity issues as well with drivers reporting ‘failed to clear’ on a regular basis with same number of passengers forced onto half the number of buses. Complaints from customers who liked the quick route it previously took between Livingston and Broxburn now having to go on a tour of half of Livingston.

That is not surprising at all.. All this will do is drive more people back on to First No600. Why on earth did they get rid of 275.

 

[mb88]

That is not surprising at all.. All this will do is drive more people back on to First No600. Why on earth did they get rid of 275.

Exactly right. They’ve made an absolute pigs ear of things yet again. Utterly demoralising.

 

[CN04NRJ]

First few days of the revised 276 haven’t been too promising. Running times stupidly tight which is being exacerbated by the roadworks at Bathgate Morrisons leading to some buses being up to 50 minutes late with the Loganlea ones catching up with the ones coming to/from Bathgate. Capacity issues as well with drivers reporting ‘failed to clear’ on a regular basis with same number of passengers forced onto half the number of buses. Complaints from customers who liked the quick route it previously took between Livingston and Broxburn now having to go on a tour of half of Livingston.

That's disappointing to hear given double decks have been transferred to ECB (and the vast amount of B9s sold despite all three companies being short of DDs). 201-215 still out of use, maybe they might return during the summer with all the chaos it'll bring.

 

[stevenedin]

It would probably be better if some of 201-215 moved to LCB for use on the 276 and 280 at peak times especially.

 

[ScotRail158725]

It would probably be better if some of 201-215 moved to LCB for use on the 276 and 280 at peak times especially.

I wouldn’t like to see those on country work. An increase in frequency for the 276 is definitely the best way to go. Probably getting 928-936 all back at Livi so they could use then would be the sensible idea

 

[Mickcloud9]

First few days of the revised 276 haven’t been too promising. Running times stupidly tight which is being exacerbated by the roadworks at Bathgate Morrisons leading to some buses being up to 50 minutes late with the Loganlea ones catching up with the ones coming to/from Bathgate. Capacity issues as well with drivers reporting ‘failed to clear’ on a regular basis with same number of passengers forced onto half the number of buses. Complaints from customers who liked the quick route it previously took between Livingston and Broxburn now having to go on a tour of half of Livingston.

Hopefully they will pay attention to what the drivers are saying and reinstate the 275, they need to change the times on the 280. First are leaving 2 minutes in front of them. Surprise surprise…

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Al

First few days of the revised 276 haven’t been too promising. Running times stupidly tight which is being exacerbated by the roadworks at Bathgate Morrisons leading to some buses being up to 50 minutes late with the Loganlea ones catching up with the ones coming to/from Bathgate. Capacity issues as well with drivers reporting ‘failed to clear’ on a regular basis with same number of passengers forced onto half the number of buses. Complaints from customers who liked the quick route it previously took between Livingston and Broxburn now having to go on a tour of half of Livingston.

All issues they’ve created with trying to spare drivers for the 43.

 

[Siemens Trains]

I wouldn’t like to see those on country work. An increase in frequency for the 276 is definitely the best way to go. Probably getting 928-936 all back at Livi so they could use then would be the sensible idea

Al

All issues they’ve created with trying to spare drivers for the 43.

I suspect that's getting towards the point. Universal shortage of drivers rather than vehicles is the problem.
Double decks can help a bit if they have staff who can to drive them (does this still need a certain length of experience at Lothian?)
However increasing a frequency consumes extra drivers and that's a well documented issue at every operator. A big reason for running more buses on the 43 is surely to remove driver demand from Central on the 41.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I suspect that's getting towards the point. Universal shortage of drivers rather than vehicles is the problem.
Double decks can help a bit if they have staff who can to drive them (does this still need a certain length of experience at Lothian?)
However increasing a frequency consumes extra drivers and that's a well documented issue at every operator. A big reason for running more buses on the 43 is surely to remove driver demand from Central on the 41.

Possibly, their city centre operations will be protected more so than their out of city operations.

 

[Busman757]

Hopefully they will pay attention to what the drivers are saying and reinstate the 275, they need to change the times on the 280. First are leaving 2 minutes in front of them. Surprise surprise…

Unfortunately the two guys from the commercial team never listened. They would come to the garage and ask drivers opinions but they never took any onboard. They screwed up the network when they took the 275 out of Whitburn. They then build up the customer trust to tarnish it all again with the recent change. Which is a shame.

 

[Mickcloud9]

Unfortunately the two guys from the commercial team never listened. They would come to the garage and ask drivers opinions but they never took any onboard. They screwed up the network when they took the 275 out of Whitburn. They then build up the customer trust to tarnish it all again with the recent change. Which is a shame.

It amazes me how the ‘commercial’ team, who drive a desk btw, can just pull a service without some sort of public consultation. They said certain sections of the 275 weren’t commercially viable. I don’t see how they came to that conclusion.

As for the 276, it does nothing between Livingston - Loganlea - Bathgate. How can that be commercially viable? Given that First have reduced services and altered times, now more than ever would be the time to increase services and establish a proper foothold in certain areas.

The 280 has loads of potential to become a core service however every time LC put up a timetable, First change theirs to run 2 mins in front, whenever the X25 shows up that is. It’s concerning that a company who are allegedly the only growing part of the business is pulling back and cutting services. Doesn’t make sense. Same when they do change things, it’s all advertised online. Not everyone looks online, is it that hard to print off 40 x A3 notices and Pritt-stick them to each bus letting folk know what’s happening and when…? For me, treating passengers with this contempt will be a major issue when it comes to the crunch. Clearly the ‘commercial’ team don’t know an awful lot about ‘commercial advertising’.

 

[317 forever]

The ex London stock will be the last B9s to leave the fleet. 1141-1153 are rarely out on Sundays so this is nothing abnormal. They were fully refurbished in and out not even 3 years ago so withdrawl is out of the question

This means that the newer and larger ones, the 11-reg ones, will be withdrawn before the ex-London ones.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I heard from the bus radios at about half 8 about bus drivers on the 30 and 33 not following diversion services etc. Why do drivers not have the courage to read the notice board?

 

[computerSaysNo]

I heard from the bus radios at about half 8 about bus drivers on the 30 and 33 not following diversion services etc. Why do drivers not have the courage to read the notice board?

Half 8 am or pm? I assume pm going by the time you posted, I thought the diversions were only supposed to be until 5/6pm today though?

 

[Blindtraveler]

I got back to Edinburgh by train last night at just before 23 and found much of the bus service were still in chaos after whatever had been going on yesterday. Was absolutely convinced that the final 37 of the night wouldn't turn up and I'd be forced to stand at Queensferry Street where I had just been deposited by a 19 from the Waverley until the night service kicked in or I lost the will to live and got a taxi

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Half 8 am or pm? I assume pm going by the time you posted, I thought the diversions were only supposed to be until 5/6pm today though?

Not sure, it was pm though. I don't really know when the diversions ended but it's beside the point, drivers should follow the notice boards!

 

[90019]

Not sure, it was pm though. I don't really know when the diversions ended but it's beside the point, drivers should follow the notice boards!

From the sounds of it, they were following the notices but the diversions ran later than was posted.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Not sure, it was pm though. I don't really know when the diversions ended but it's beside the point, drivers should follow the notice boards!

From the sounds of it, they were following the notices but the diversions ran later than was posted.

Yes, it sounds like there were some last-minute changes to the diversions which occurred/were decided after the majority of drivers would have had a chance to read the daily notices, thus were communicated by radio.
As an aside, what is the audio quality like on those radios? As a passenger the audio quality always seems to be absolutely atrocious, I can only ever make out maybe 5 to 10% of what's being said. But then I'm obviously seated much further back and in the saloon so maybe it's a lot clearer from where the driver sits.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Given that somebody talking to me via a 4G voice connection on my mobile can sound like they're sitting in the room with me I am absolutely mortified the the radio is like this still being used at a bus company that takes so much pride in being up to date as Lothian seems to

 

[GusB]

Given that somebody talking to me via a 4G voice connection on my mobile can sound like they're sitting in the room with me I am absolutely mortified the radio is still being used at a bus company that takes so much pride in being up to date as Lothian seems to.

Does it really matter as long as the driver can hear and understand what's said over the radio? It's not intended for the passenger.

Just because something uses old technology doesn't necessarily make it obsolete if it continues to do the job for which it was intended. If it ain't broke...

 

[alexf380]

T

 

[mb88]

I heard from the bus radios at about half 8 about bus drivers on the 30 and 33 not following diversion services etc. Why do drivers not have the courage to read the notice board?

There are many reasons why a driver may not be aware of a diversion. It may have overrun, been amended from the diversion posted, driver may have been on their meal break or in one of many radio black spots when a radio call was made. Quite insulting to jump to the conclusion that they’ve just not bothered to read the notices.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

There are many reasons why a driver may not be aware of a diversion. It may have overrun, been amended from the diversion posted, driver may have been on their meal break or in one of many radio black spots when a radio call was made. Quite insulting to jump to the conclusion that they’ve just not bothered to read the notices.

True, although he said there was repeated warnings to the drivers that they'd said the diversions were still going on?

What is the audio quality like on those radios? As a passenger the audio quality always seems to be absolutely atrocious, I can only ever make out maybe 5 to 10% of what's being said. But then I'm obviously seated much further back and in the saloon so maybe it's a lot clearer from where the driver sits.

Not so bad as people say, they are understandable although there is a grainy texture to the audio for some reason? I don't know how else to explain it.

"Once service levels stabilise and changes to Lothian services lesson, Lothian will look at reintroducing the printed timetables," that's what I've been told.

 

[Graeme Duncan]

1143 is out on the 48 for the last week or so but the rest have not which seems baffling.

 

[mb88]

As an aside, what is the audio quality like on those radios? As a passenger the audio quality always seems to be absolutely atrocious, I can only ever make out maybe 5 to 10% of what's being said. But then I'm obviously seated much further back and in the saloon so maybe it's a lot clearer from where the driver sits.

The audio quality is extremely poor to begin with, and the further out you go the signal is as good as non existent. Out in West Lothian you’re wasting your time trying to get through on the radio, have to phone up, and any vital messages relayed over the radio will be missed. It’s a shame we don’t have a more up to date ticket machine which can receive text messages as diversions could be put out this way and far less chance of being missed due to poor signal, or even being otherwise engaged speaking to customers when the message is broadcast. That way you can read the message as and when it is convenient. There is so much that can be misunderstood, misheard, or misinterpreted with spoken messages.

 

[muffy]

Case and point with the likes of Wester Inch and Calderwood… A majority of people buying new homes in these new housing estates are going to have expensive cars and not use the bus

You obviously have never been on a rush bus through Calderwood. 15 people just boarded the half sevenish X27 going into town. Nearly did wait 30 minutes for 931 which is the bus behind mine.
Having lived in Calderwood for over a year the buses are well used within the estate anytime I have used it although today has been the busiest I have seen that X27 since I moved there and started making the odd trip to my office.

 

[Lothiangem22]

1143 is out on the 48 for the last week or so but the rest have not which seems baffling.

4 of the dual door ex London’s have made their way to Longstone over the last few days. Not sure whether these will see service or something else planned

 

[Graham Alexand]

4 of the dual door ex London’s have made their way to Longstone over the last few days. Not sure whether these will see service or something else planned

173 is also there so maybe they're just there for storage?.

 

[Bus9120UK]

4 of the dual door ex London’s have made their way to Longstone over the last few days. Not sure whether these will see service or something else planned

Could this see the the rest of 551-570 being repainted?