Blindtraveler
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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)
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This is correct. A full list of the runs it will operate, if the above info is accurate:
- 5:55 Cannonmills to Greenbank
- 6:29 Greenbank to Trinity
- 7:18 Trinity to Greenbank
- 8:15 Greenbank to Trinity
- 9:29 Trinity to Greenbank
- 10:33 Greenbank to Trinity
- 11:29 Trinity to Greenbank
- 12:33 Greenbank to Trinity
- 13:29 Trinity to Greenbank
- 14:33 Greenbank to Trinity
- 15:39 Trinity to Greenbank
- 16:50 Greenbank to Trinity
- 17:49 Trinity to Greenbank
- 18:53 Greenbank to Trinity
- Returns to depot
1071 returned from it's minor paint job today with 1046 in the other direction. Hopefully they pick up the pace on the B7RLEs once the ex-London's are finished.
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stevenedin
Established Member
Is there anymore news on what the B7RLEs are going to be used for?
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
Not yet. Seems like all are going into madder and white though. There’s of course that rumour that Central will be getting them to replace 1-13 and 34-38.
stevenedin
Established Member
Thanks, I’m looking forward to them coming back.
90sWereBetter
Member
Looking on Bustimes (I know, a dangerous thing to do), there only appears to be one sizeable batch of native B9TLs left with Lothian (351-399). I presume these are next on the hit list instead of the ex-London batches?
Will be interesting to see. Same age, native long wheelbase versus non native short wheelbase. The outsiders had an extensive refurb though including high back seats. I'd think that would edge it.
That said looking at the last order size, it's entirely possible they'll all go at the same time along with 841-850 and 936-950 too.
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LothianBusesPh
Member
Bustimes.org is 99.9% accurate with Lothian because of the wonderful @FlybeDash8Q400 and @Bus9120UK amongst others. We're lucky to have them!
351-400 to be pedantic (minus 390).
I'd expect them to be gone some time in 2024.
LothianBusesPh
Member
I'd also expect 951-960 to go with them, they are getting on a bit now, lots of them are knackered now, and it's obvious why they are, they've been thrashed on most of their lives, although not as bad as 937-950 have been.
To be fair 351-400 & 951-960 are solid buses. They certainly aren't perfect but I don't see much issue with them. They could last many more years although I agree with @CN04NRJ that 2024 is fairly likely. 937-950 is a good mention too, these ones are 13 this year and certainly due replacement with new (not cascaded) buses.
LothianBusesPh
Member
I think Volvo B5TL Enviro 400 MMC's are on the cards, I very much doubt that East Coast Buses will get B5LH Hybrids after the 591-594 massacre, although to be fair, 591-594 have smaller engines and they were older, but it's a mystery how all of the issues happened after they joined East Coast Buses, and the fact it was more than one of them raises questions, is it all a coincidence or is it linked with ECB? There's not much difference in the terrain in these areas either.
I think Volvo B5TL's would suit East Coast Buses better anyway. I am pretty sure they would also replace 841-850, and then ECB has a very good fleet age. Although if they were to replace all of them, I could see 4 or 5 cascaded buses joining the East Coast Buses fleet along with newer vehicles.
Blindtraveler
Established Member
Is that chassis even still being made by Volvo? I rather got the impression that the large order of 21/22 was Lothian having a brown trousers moment due to imminent discontinuation.
On a slightly related topic, the the ADL smart seats in these vehicles are not wearing well, I'm finding quite a few collapsed seat bases now
On a slightly related topic, the the ADL smart seats in these vehicles are not wearing well, I'm finding quite a few collapsed seat bases now
computerSaysNo
Established Member
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- 14 Dec 2018
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The Volvo B5TL Chassis isn't advertised on the Volvo UK page from what I can see and there are no products containing a 5 litre engine there either, but Volvo do advertise a "B5L S-Charge" (looks to be very similar to the B5LH) to various non-UK markets (the ones I looked at were New Zealand, Hong Kong, and Australia). That product contains the D5K240 engine, which is a B5, but I'm not sure if it's the same physical engine as is in the B5TL. I wouldn't see the sense in producing two slightly different five-litre engines for different markets (B5TL for UK and B5L S-Charge for non-UK) so I would imagine it is the same engine, and if not the same power output then it'd just be electrically reduced or with a slightly different fuel pump or something.
So all that is to say, no they don't appear to currently offer the B5 in the UK any more, but that engine does still look to be in production. If Lothian can't still get the B5TL chassis (e.g. not possible to produce something else to do with the chassis any more) at the very least they could probably still get buses on the B5LH.
That said, the design for the B5TLs and B5LHs must be getting on for 10 years old now, it is definitely due an update. If the B8L was available in slightly shorter length and with a single rear axle then I could see it being a better option for East Coast Buses, but it looks like it is not.
It does look to be a bit of a gap on Volvo's resume, offering a single- and tag-axle single deck bus but only a tag-axle double deck.
If the new BZL electric demonstrator does well with Lothian, might they replace the remaining B9s with that and several extra, and cascade some existing B5s to East Coast?
New post @ 2023 02 02 0125hrs:
East Coast Buses appear to have 26 "older" deckers (841->850 = 10, 935->950 = 16, total 26).
These could be replaced from the main fleet by 496->510 and 1051->1062 = 27 vehicles. This would get the whole 2018 batch with the one operator, but does rely on the Skylink vehicles being replaced, and would need an interior refurbishment for the cascaded vehicles. It would be nice to have a fleet with ECB which all has on-board announcements though.
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GusB
Established Member
B5L suggests that the engine is mounted longitudinally as opposed to the transverse layout of the B5TL. We are in danger of veering off-topic, though.
LothianBusesPh
Member
We have the D5K240, the power output on this is, well 240hp, which is the same as our ones.
LothianBusesPh
Member
The front looks better on this one than the other one to suit the Lothian livery (from our private conversation.) All Lothian would have to do is to paint that Silver part Madder and remove the Volvo Logo on that panel. A few other minor adjustments could be made but it looks like a great bus!
The overall bodywork (in a weird manner) reminds me of the MCV Evora, and with it being in plain white, makes it feel like 299 (The Evora demonstrator that was used on the Service 1.)
MCV produce the body for the BZL, the badge is on the back too.
MCV make the bodywork, I imagine it has plenty similarities to the eVoRa!
LothianBusesPh
Member
SO they did! I imagine because Volvo own MCV, they're using an MCV body as a demonstrator.
Do they? MCV body is for all UK BZLs at the moment.
LothianBusesPh
Member
I realise that, but maybe that could change in the future, anyway this is drifting off topic now.
Blindtraveler
Established Member
I picked this up today on the the 1129 x trinity although I boarded at goldenacre terrace and was running about 4 minutes late. Lost a bit of time due to to loading and unloading and being a single deck on what would normally be a double deck diagram but that's not a major issue. It certainly feels very powerful and made no sweat whatsoever of the 2 hill climbs that I experienced between there and lauriston place where I noticed from Google maps for the 47 was right behind me so decided to change. MCV body work is obviously a known quantity to us around here now and this one felt well put together and nicely appointed. Traction motors a little louder than the ADL byd deckers but make quite a good sound and and as I say certainly seemed to shift the thing. If we took 40 or 0 of these to get rid of most of the horrible hybrids I wouldn't be complaining.
stevenedin
Established Member
Does anyone know why 373 seems to be the only bus out of that batch that makes that screaming voith noise like the older B9TLs? It only happens when the driver puts the foot down or if it is going up a hill. It’s the same noise you used to hear on 826-950 when new. I don’t seem to hear it anymore. I think 895 was very loud at times.
computerSaysNo
Established Member
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I feel like this post is mostly going to be a moan at the BBC for what is becoming a bad habit of poor reporting.
This is on the BBC Scotland website today:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-64498496
I think I recognise the bus on the left as being a President(?), but I've no idea what the bus on the right is. It was back when the day tickets were £2.50, anyway.
Next:
Also, if they are working in the centre they could park and then take the 100. If they are saying that the 100 is "not up to scratch" then I really think they need to manage their expectations of the world a bit. It operates every ten minutes and only stops six times before it gets to the city centre, unless it's running full and standing all day I'd say it's more than adequate.
And the Tram isn't impacted by congestion for most of the route so by the power of deduction they must be complaining that it isn't frequent enough. Isn't this the tram which operates every seven minutes?
They need to enforce no stopping and no parking areas much more aggressively too. As an example, I must have been past that stop at West Maitland Street, which is either double yellow lines or "no stopping except buses" along its entirety, well over a hundred times now, and I can't think of a single time when there hasn't been at least one car parked there, and the majority of the time there are several cars and large vans. The buses then can't get into the stop but the car/van drivers at the traffic lights don't notice or don't care, move into the junction when they can't get out of it, and then block traffic in all directions when the traffic lights change.
This is on the BBC Scotland website today:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-64498496
My first question is: how old is the second photograph in the article?BBC News said:Edinburgh transport plans get consultation go-ahead
IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Edinburgh was named the UK’s most congested city in 2021 for the fourth straight year
Edinburgh Council has approved a three-month consultation period on plans to reshape the city's transport network as it bids to reach net zero by 2030.
The proposed £1bn transition over seven years will include more bus and cycle lanes and wider footpaths.
It is also aiming for a 30% reduction in car journeys in the city by 2030.
Transport convener Scott Arthur said he wanted to "get into every nook and cranny of the city to hear what people think" and "improve the plans further".
"Edinburgh is already one of the most congested cities in the UK," he told BBC Radio's Good Morning Scotland programme.
"The council has agreed to set aside land for a further 37,000 houses in Edinburgh, and if we do nothing it is only going to add to the congestion."
Funding for the plans has been ring-fenced by the Scottish government.
- New street layouts still unsafe, say blind people
- Scottish government report backs Edinburgh trams expansion
- Older cars face ban from Edinburgh city centre
- Car ban and tram extension proposed in 10-year Edinburgh vision
The council has published three action plans - on active travel, public transport and parking - aimed at increasing public transport capacity and making it more reliable and efficient.
The measures are also designed to make it easier to cycle and walk around the city.
"If we can get people out of their cars, public transport is there for the heavy lifting," said Mr Arthur, the City of Edinburgh Council's transport and environment convener.
"There will be some people for whom the car remains an essential element of the way they live.
"But whether you drive 100 journeys a month or 100 a year, we want people to think about ones they could make on public transport - whether that's going into the city centre or to the local shops. Hopefully they can get some exercise along the way too."
'Absolute nightmare'
IMAGE SOURCE,PA MEDIA
Image caption,
Buses are often backed up on Edinburgh's Princes Street
Scott, from Glasgow, travels to Edinburgh for work on a regular basis.
"Travelling around Edinburgh is an absolute nightmare," he told BBC Radio Scotland's Mornings programme.
"I have worked in Edinburgh for decades and if I go across now, I park my electric car at the Park and Ride at Ingliston (near Edinburgh Airport) and plug it in there.
"Then I use bus services put on by the companies I work for. If I try to use the tram or main bus services, they are just not up to scratch, either because of the frequency or the congestion, which is ridiculous now.
"You can be nose to tail sitting behind eight other buses along the entire length of one of the main drags, going absolutely nowhere.
"It takes you 40 minutes to get to the outskirts of Edinburgh, then another 40 minutes to get into the middle."
Some councillors voiced concern about the cost and lack of detail in the plans.
Conservative councillor Marie Clair-Munro said: "The city's residents need to know how much each scheme is going to cost, funding and delivery time."
Lib Dem group leader Kevin Lang said he was "all for ambition" but "worried about delivery".
"Have we got the officer capacity to deliver this?" he asked.
Plans to introduce a congestion charge in the capital were rejected back in 2005 after more than 74% of residents voted against such a toll.
But Mr Arthur warned that if people could not be persuaded to travel into the city entre by other means, a charge could be brought in.
"At the moment we are building capacity in the public transport routes into the city, giving buses priority - they're going to be more reliable and more efficient," he said.
Congestion problem
"But once we get to about 2025, if people are not taking advantage of what will be a first-class, improved bus service, we will look at a congestion charge and develop that in partnership with businesses and surrounding local authorities.
"We will use the money from that to make public transport even better."
The council will also clamp down on cars parked in bus lanes and vehicles loading in bus lanes "to the maximum in our power," Mr Arthur said.
He acknowledged that a heavy programme of roadworks - with 14,000 applications every year - was not helping the long-term goal of easier access around the city.
"It is impossible to do them without delays," he added. "Fixing the congestion problem is a key part of our response.
"This is a transition, it's not going to happen tomorrow; it's going to happen over the next seven years.
"It's also about improving health and wellbeing, and it will also help the economy as it comes out of Covid, without a doubt."
Additional reporting by local democracy reporter Donald Turvill.
I think I recognise the bus on the left as being a President(?), but I've no idea what the bus on the right is. It was back when the day tickets were £2.50, anyway.
Next:
If you work in Edinburgh and have done for decades, why do you live in Glasgow???BBC News said:
Okay, so you live in Glasgow and choose to drive to Edinburgh for work every day, park at the P&R and then complain there isn't a fast enough bus into the Centre. Why don't you just take the 900 bus and then it saves you changing at Ingliston?BBC News said:
First I've heard about services put on by specific companies for employees. I know there is a private bus service which RBS run, presumably from their HQ, into the Gyle, but that particular service doesn't fit in with the rest of the story in the article so it can't be that one.BBC News said:
Okay so how is a private bus service immune to congestion when it operates on the same roads as the public bus?BBC News said:
Also, if they are working in the centre they could park and then take the 100. If they are saying that the 100 is "not up to scratch" then I really think they need to manage their expectations of the world a bit. It operates every ten minutes and only stops six times before it gets to the city centre, unless it's running full and standing all day I'd say it's more than adequate.
And the Tram isn't impacted by congestion for most of the route so by the power of deduction they must be complaining that it isn't frequent enough. Isn't this the tram which operates every seven minutes?
Well, Yes, it's a Big City, what do you expect?BBC News said:
I hope they do, and I hope they change all the bus lanes to operate 24/7.BBC News said:
They need to enforce no stopping and no parking areas much more aggressively too. As an example, I must have been past that stop at West Maitland Street, which is either double yellow lines or "no stopping except buses" along its entirety, well over a hundred times now, and I can't think of a single time when there hasn't been at least one car parked there, and the majority of the time there are several cars and large vans. The buses then can't get into the stop but the car/van drivers at the traffic lights don't notice or don't care, move into the junction when they can't get out of it, and then block traffic in all directions when the traffic lights change.
GusB
Established Member
It's a Volvo Olympian with Alexander RH bodywork. News outlets often use stock images and journalists aren't enthusiasts who care how old the photo is. Be thankful that they have at least chosen the correct city!
Why not? It's not unusual to live in one place and commute to another. There will be others who commute the other way.
computerSaysNo
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Dec 2018
- Messages
- 1,436
Yes this is true.
I've just been reading through the Public Transport report which was linked from the news story in my original post. I've noticed several things:
My bold.Edinburgh City Council said:
As quoted, the document says "the majority"; I can see East Coast and Lothian Country being the exceptions to this. Taking the statement as-is though, it looks like this year will be the last year Lothian will be able to order diesel buses (making all the discussion about whether Volvo still produce the B5TL rather moot). If there is going to be a large "last order" then I guess we'll know about it soon.
Edinburgh City Council said:
stevenedin
Established Member
To be honest nothing would surprise me if it is being privatised with all of the cut backs going on. I just hope that the service doesn’t get worse.Yes this is true.
I've just been reading through the Public Transport report which was linked from the news story in my original post. I've noticed several things:
My bold.
As quoted, the document says "the majority"; I can see East Coast and Lothian Country being the exceptions to this. Taking the statement as-is though, it looks like this year will be the last year Lothian will be able to order diesel buses (making all the discussion about whether Volvo still produce the B5TL rather moot). If there is going to be a large "last order" then I guess we'll know about it soon.
LothianBusesPh
Member
But it's also important that we have the right low emission buses on the market to operate some of our frequent and long flagship services for a reasonable amount of time. We have some of the cleanest buses out there, they are diesel but they are better to what we had say 10 years ago. I don't know why they are complaining about times going into the city centre, do they know it's a big city?