Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Bus9120UK]

The inevitable... https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2023/05/service-change-from-sunday-28-may/

Service change from Sunday 28 May​

Revision to the network for improved reliability and connectivity​

A number of changes to the Lothian network will be introduced to improve reliability and connectivity across Edinburgh and the Lothians.
Taking effect from 28 May 2023, new or altered services will be introduced to improve reliability and connectivity, replacing existing services on some parts of the network. With the imminent arrival of the Trams to Newhaven, our teams have been working hard to ensure our bus network will continue to meet the needs of customers.
Included in this review are some key changes, detailed below.

More on the article..

So a few more changes we didn't know about:

Service 4 will no longer serve Bingham Roundabout
Services 12/22 will swap route at the Gyle
Service 34 as suggested by @TheEastCoaster will indeed now use Salamander Street as the permanent route.
Service X6 reduced on a Sunday (every hour), X7 increased (every 30 minutes).
Service 400 will operate every 40 minutes on a Sunday.

 

[A330Alex]

Surprisingly the 4 appears to be the only bus using the A1 for QMU, with the 30 continuing on the present route: https://lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/QMU-0.jpg

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The inevitable... https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2023/05/service-change-from-sunday-28-may/



More on the article..

So a few more changes we didn't know about:

Service 4 will no longer serve Bingham Roundabout
Services 12/22 will swap route at the Gyle
Service 34 as suggested by @TheEastCoaster will indeed now use Salamander Street as the permanent route.
Service X6 reduced on a Sunday (every hour), X7 increased (every 30 minutes).
Service 400 will operate every 40 minutes on a Sunday.

Honestly I am so confused, how come the 30 is not using the A1 to go to QMU? is it to keep the service for Newcraighall into the city?

Disapointed that the 400 is getting cut on a Sunday in frequency, it’s always busy whenever I’m on it.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Honestly I am so confused, how come the 30 is not using the A1 to go to QMU? is it to keep the service for Newcraighall into the city?

I take it that’s the reason. It seems a tad daft if you ask me. They’ve done the correct thing and created the 46/48, but left the 30 how it was? I can only assume that it’s as you say plus the fact there are insufficient double decks at the moment. A good call by @ScotRail158725

 

[tbtc]

Thanks for posting @Bus9120UK

I’d assumed that the 30 would run via the A1 too, to permit double decker operation… unless that’s only the plan for much later once more double decker are available? Maybe once the new academic year starts after the summer? Or someone got cold feet about Newcraighall losing direct buses to the city centre (only having the 46/48)?

Given the large number of maps accompanying the information on the website (which is good), I was surprised there’s not one for Leith.., I’d assumed that the 10 and 11 would swap Northern routes entirely rather than half a mile of Lindsay Road losing both services and only getting the 16 in future (since the 10 will run as per now to North Junction Street then direct into Ocean Terminal, whilst the 11 runs as per now to Newhaven then into Western Harbour, i.e. Lindsay Road loses most of its buses… I appreciate that the trams are going to change everything in this neck of the woods but it feels like if Lothian were going to make this change then they should have done a year ago to avoid the 10/11 being stuck in tram-related roadworks!)

Good that the 31 is getting an extra bus per hour on Sundays to sugar the blow of the Polton etc losing the direct Edinburgh bus on the 49 (now 46)… the frequency cuts and lack of evening/Sunday Infirmary service will hurt Rosewell etc though. The 46 feels like the runt of the litter, could be Solo operated one day.

I don’t Remember seeing Broomhall as a terminus before (evening services on the 12)

I think a night bus map would have been handy, given the various changes

Overall, good, I guess, hopefully it’ll be sustainable in future, hopefully the trams will compliment the new bus network rather than hurt it, but who knows…

 

[VioletEclipse]

Overall it looks pretty good. my main complaints are probably that service 15 is still staying as a shadow of it's former route, the reduced Sunday frequencies on both services 21 and 400 will not be popular, and lastly the Royal Infirmary loosing the vast majority of it's nightbuses is bad.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Thanks for posting @Bus9120UK

I’d assumed that the 30 would run via the A1 too, to permit double decker operation… unless that’s only the plan for much later once more double decker are available? Maybe once the new academic year starts after the summer? Or someone got cold feet about Newcraighall losing direct buses to the city centre (only having the 46/48)?

Given the large number of maps accompanying the information on the website (which is good), I was surprised there’s not one for Leith.., I’d assumed that the 10 and 11 would swap Northern routes entirely rather than half a mile of Lindsay Road losing both services and only getting the 16 in future (since the 10 will run as per now to North Junction Street then direct into Ocean Terminal, whilst the 11 runs as per now to Newhaven then into Western Harbour, i.e. Lindsay Road loses most of its buses… I appreciate that the trams are going to change everything in this neck of the woods but it feels like if Lothian were going to make this change then they should have done a year ago to avoid the 10/11 being stuck in tram-related roadworks!)

Good that the 31 is getting an extra bus per hour on Sundays to sugar the blow of the Polton etc losing the direct Edinburgh bus on the 49 (now 46)… the frequency cuts and lack of evening/Sunday Infirmary service will hurt Rosewell etc though. The 46 feels like the runt of the litter, could be Solo operated one day.

I don’t Remember seeing Broomhall as a terminus before (evening services on the 12)

I think a night bus map would have been handy, given the various changes

Overall, good, I guess, hopefully it’ll be sustainable in future, hopefully the trams will compliment the new bus network rather than hurt it, but who knows…

If they are testing the waters to see how the 46/48 fairs in Newcraighall before thinking of changing the 30! see if folks will use it to travel into Musselburgh or Niddrie as an alternative? that’s the only logical explanation I can think of As to why the 30 is remaining as it is currently, obviously once more Doubles are available for the 30 then we’ll see it work?

I’m assuming the broomhall terminus will be the stop before broomhouse roundabout? Noticed they didn’t say the 12 is extending to Potterrow on Sunday with an hourly frequency?

Had a thought.. if the 106 is no longer serving Newcraighall then surely they could throw in some doubles?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Had a thought.. if the 106 is no longer serving Newcraighall then surely they could throw in some doubles?

That could now happen on an emergency basis, yes. But I do think it’ll keep the Eclipse3’s for now.

 

[computerSaysNo]

It looks like both the 46 and 48 will need to be single-deck to get under the bridge at Newcraighall. Mostly 7900s I would think?

 

[VioletEclipse]

The inevitable... https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2023/05/service-change-from-sunday-28-may/



More on the article..

So a few more changes we didn't know about:

Service 4 will no longer serve Bingham Roundabout
Services 12/22 will swap route at the Gyle
Service 34 as suggested by @TheEastCoaster will indeed now use Salamander Street as the permanent route.
Service X6 reduced on a Sunday (every hour), X7 increased (every 30 minutes).
Service 400 will operate every 40 minutes on a Sunday.

I've just realised that the links to the new timetables on the news article mostly open with just numbers as the title of the pdf, but the pdfs for the new timetables for ECB srevices are titled 'Lothian Region Transport plc'. With it now being 23 years since the company was called LRT, that was quite unexpected.

 

[mb88]

I’m not convinced about replacing the 41 with a revised 47. It will mean anyone trying to get from George Street/Princes Street will have no choice but to use the 43, and can therefore see folk at Queensferry Street wanting Queensferry getting left behind. The 43 is busy enough as it is.

 

[Fleetmaster]

The latest Buses Magazine has a four page feature on the current business strategy of Lothian, in case anyone is interested.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I’m not convinced about replacing the 41 with a revised 47. It will mean anyone trying to get from George Street/Princes Street will have no choice but to use the 43, and can therefore see folk at Queensferry Street wanting Queensferry getting left behind. The 43 is busy enough as it is.

I’m surprised they didn’t make the 43 every 15 minutes at this point?

 

[mb88]

I’m surprised they didn’t make the 43 every 15 minutes at this point?

That’s a difficult one as the City Centre - Barnton section is very busy but Queensferry can be hit and miss, even at peak times loadings can be fairly light so I think 20 minute intervals with a few extra peak journeys is probably about right. The 43 is timetabled to be at Queensferry Street at 01/21/41 minutes past with the 47 at 11/31/51 so in theory a 10 minute service from there to Blackhall/Barnton.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The next big question will be bus movements, and any potential depot switches for routes. I myself can see the 7900’s allocations being revised a little bit. 1-10 should still be required for now and 14-16 should hopefully be returning to service. If the 2 was to move to Central (possible given the start/end points for part route) then I could see something like 1-30 all at Central.

It looks like both the 46 and 48 will need to be single-deck to get under the bridge at Newcraighall. Mostly 7900s I would think?

They will be single deck. There are conveniently 15 Eclipse2’s. These would be the best fit in my opinion.

 

[stevenedin]

I’ve noticed a new later X27 from Edinburgh to Deans North at 23:48 which will be a welcome addition to people in Livingston wanting to get home later.

 

[mb88]

I’ve noticed a new later X27 from Edinburgh to Deans North at 23:48 which will be a welcome addition to people in Livingston wanting to get home later.

There’s also an extra X27 at school finishing time from Deans High to Craigshill which will be most welcome as this can get mobbed with school kids.

 

[scosutsut]

That could now happen on an emergency basis, yes. But I do think it’ll keep the Eclipse3’s for now.

I've never seen it busy enough and I think usage will drop now it doesn't go to the Fort but time will tell on that one.

 

[overthewater]

Service 25
Revised timetable. The Monday-Friday daytime frequency is reduced to every 12 minutes. Some extra peak time journeys will be withdrawn for the summer and reintroduced when the universities return in September.

Looks like there will be peak improvements when the uni comes back.

That’s a difficult one as the City Centre - Barnton section is very busy but Queensferry can be hit and miss, even at peak times loadings can be fairly light so I think 20 minute intervals with a few extra peak journeys is probably about right. The 43 is timetabled to be at Queensferry Street at 01/21/41 minutes past with the 47 at 11/31/51 so in theory a 10 minute service from there to Blackhall/Barnton.

I think they really should bring back the old 40/A idea. Queensferry is getting bigger and bigger but people are fed up with no43 taking up to an hour.


Its clear as day Lothian are trying to do something with the No22 as its been left without a purpose for a while now.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I think they really should bring back the old 40/A idea. Queensferry is getting bigger and bigger but people are fed up with no43 taking up to an hour.

I think the problem was the 40/A was often hammered by the Forth Road Bridge traffic. The queues at the slip where the A90 and M90 join up were often long during peak hours - they might even still be which would be the problem? Obviously with it now being the Queensferry Crossing plus the bus lane slip roads for the Forth Road Bridge this may be more favourable now?

It’s a good idea on paper. I’m just not sure it would work in practice.

 

[overthewater]

I think the problem was the 40/A was often hammered by the Forth Road Bridge traffic. The queues at the slip where the A90 and M90 join up were often long during peak hours - they might even still be which would be the problem? Obviously with it now being the Queensferry Crossing plus the bus lane slip roads for the Forth Road Bridge this may be more favourable now?

It’s a good idea on paper. I’m just not sure it would work in practice.

The Slip road has made a real difference, the 40/A was too ahead of its time. They best solution would be

41: Edinburgh - Barton - A90 - Scotstoun - Tesco - SQ police station - Builyeon Road - A90 to Edinburgh.
43: Same as now, on the return trip it goes straight from Scotstoun to Primary school and heads for Dalmeny.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Having had a proper read over all these changes and a look through all the timetables the changes aren’t necessary bad changes but theres a lot of pointless changes. The extension of the 4 and missing out Bingham achieves what? QMU has an unnecessary serving of buses now and honestly the 30 going beyond the Fort if it’s not serving Musselburgh is a waste of resources it’d have been a wiser use of double deckers on a 30 as far as the Fort only as the 46/48 cover everything else. The 25 shouldn’t be dropping frequency here every 10 minutes works as its a busy corridor throughout. The 19s extension just seems a waste and the 45s cut makes sense but it seems a bit half baked with the random Eastfield extensions. The 22 should’ve been left as is it feels like they’re trying to much to do something with it and especially as a replacement for the 47 which is replacing the 41 it all just seems unnecessary, there was nothing wrong with the 41 in the first place and unlike the 42 where it was an underused route the 41 was well used and the way they’ve went about it just feels like a mess. About the only changes that make sense and look like they’ll actually be useful or operationally beneficial are the swap of the 10 & 11 and the 46/49 changes. The rest all seem like a backwards step or a change to something that doesn’t need fixed

 

[Bus9120UK]

The special 26 variation which operates during the Edinburgh Marathon keeping Prestonpans and Seton Sands will operate as a scheduled 226 this year. Last year it was just marked as a diversion of the existing 26. Looks like the timetables have been adjusted for each service on the day as well (e.g the 2).

 

[nathanchansc]

Having had a proper read over all these changes and a look through all the timetables the changes aren’t necessary bad changes but theres a lot of pointless changes. The extension of the 4 and missing out Bingham achieves what? QMU has an unnecessary serving of buses now and honestly the 30 going beyond the Fort if it’s not serving Musselburgh is a waste of resources it’d have been a wiser use of double deckers on a 30 as far as the Fort only as the 46/48 cover everything else. The 25 shouldn’t be dropping frequency here every 10 minutes works as its a busy corridor throughout. The 19s extension just seems a waste and the 45s cut makes sense but it seems a bit half baked with the random Eastfield extensions. The 22 should’ve been left as is it feels like they’re trying to much to do something with it and especially as a replacement for the 47 which is replacing the 41 it all just seems unnecessary, there was nothing wrong with the 41 in the first place and unlike the 42 where it was an underused route the 41 was well used and the way they’ve went about it just feels like a mess. About the only changes that make sense and look like they’ll actually be useful or operationally beneficial are the swap of the 10 & 11 and the 46/49 changes. The rest all seem like a backwards step or a change to something that doesn’t need fixed

Agree with your view on the 22/41/47 change. I think they missed out the fact that people get on/off the bus on Princes Street and east end of the city centre is the busier part, not near Lothian Road/Queensferry Street. This applies to the passengers on the 22 and 41 just now. The 22 has been quieter since it's moved to Waterloo Place but most passengers get on/off from the stops on Scott Monument/Waverley Steps. Not so positive that the loss of passengers to the city centre can be compensated by the new users from the west to Crewe Toll/Granton. I'd rather the 22 stays at it is, or goes back to Leith but limited stops, or another area with limited stops for a faster bus for somewhere.

And also the 47 hasn't been very reliable in rush hours given the long route, not so sure if it can replace the 41 properly without messing up the timetable.

10/11 to me is just a way of forcing people to the tram.

 

[Baileygirl]

Agree with your view on the 22/41/47 change. I think they missed out the fact that people get on/off the bus on Princes Street and east end of the city centre is the busier part, not near Lothian Road/Queensferry Street. This applies to the passengers on the 22 and 41 just now. The 22 has been quieter since it's moved to Waterloo Place but most passengers get on/off from the stops on Scott Monument/Waverley Steps. Not so positive that the loss of passengers to the city centre can be compensated by the new users from the west to Crewe Toll/Granton. I'd rather the 22 stays at it is, or goes back to Leith but limited stops, or another area with limited stops for a faster bus for somewhere.

And also the 47 hasn't been very reliable in rush hours given the long route, not so sure if it can replace the 41 properly without messing up the timetable.

10/11 to me is just a way of forcing people to the tram.

The 22 being turned at the West End will also be a way to forcing people on the tram as most of the route is simular.

 

[Blindtraveler]

As is the reduction of the 25. Next lot of changes will see them having to do something about the 16 as it's got even more work to do now than it had before and it had too much to do then

Whilst the tram may well take care of passengers traveling longer distances and swallow a fair few tourists the limited number of stops through leaf will mean that the demand for bus services remains and the slow and painful reduction of buses on Leith walk it's only going to end in tears I fear

 

[Kilmux]

Having had a proper read over all these changes and a look through all the timetables the changes aren’t necessary bad changes but theres a lot of pointless changes. The extension of the 4 and missing out Bingham achieves what? QMU has an unnecessary serving of buses now and honestly the 30 going beyond the Fort if it’s not serving Musselburgh is a waste of resources it’d have been a wiser use of double deckers on a 30 as far as the Fort only as the 46/48 cover everything else. The 25 shouldn’t be dropping frequency here every 10 minutes works as its a busy corridor throughout. The 19s extension just seems a waste and the 45s cut makes sense but it seems a bit half baked with the random Eastfield extensions. The 22 should’ve been left as is it feels like they’re trying to much to do something with it and especially as a replacement for the 47 which is replacing the 41 it all just seems unnecessary, there was nothing wrong with the 41 in the first place and unlike the 42 where it was an underused route the 41 was well used and the way they’ve went about it just feels like a mess. About the only changes that make sense and look like they’ll actually be useful or operationally beneficial are the swap of the 10 & 11 and the 46/49 changes. The rest all seem like a backwards step or a change to something that doesn’t need fixed

Perhaps the 41 has fallen victim to the City Mobility Plan which aims to remove buses from George Street by 2025. No convenient alternative route for 41 to access the Mound. The Festival-time diversion via Frederick St, Queen St and Hanover St not practicable.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

The special 26 variation which operates during the Edinburgh Marathon keeping Prestonpans and Seton Sands will operate as a scheduled 226 this year. Last year it was just marked as a diversion of the existing 26. Looks like the timetables have been adjusted for each service on the day as well (e.g the 2).

Not quite, the route number on the bus said "26" last year but it was still listed as "226." I am interested to see if it will state the route being "226" instead of 26, I hope this will be the case to stop confusing passengers.

Yes, some passengers just look at the route number and not the destination!

I just wanted to add that 591-594 (Listed for sale) are now at the back of Marine, similar to where 201-215 were. This means that they've probably found a buyer.

 

[oldman]

Perhaps the 41 has fallen victim to the City Mobility Plan which aims to remove buses from George Street by 2025.

Definitely part of the plan for having few buses in the centre. Including the previous changes four routes, the 12 and 22 from the west, and the replacements of the old 41 and 42 from the south will avoid Princes Street.

 

[frvic93]

I'm quite happy about the 46/48, because it will give me a more direct link to Newcraighall station (and Musselburgh station). Does anyone know if Lothian are planning on buying more double deckers so they can make the 30 a double decker route?