Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[stevenedin]

I wonder if they have an obligation to keep them for so long as funding was provided from SP Energy Networks.

 

[Lx008]

I would personally sell them as they are non-standard but still have a good amount of value
Some people like them personally I don't

If there wasn’t such a lack of deckers I think they would be sold as soon as the first BZLs turn up, personally i have nothing against them and they’ve only ever been reliable when I’ve taken them but they’re are only 4 so it does complicate things in terms of maintaince and stocks

 

[stevenedin]

I would personally sell them as they are non-standard but still have a good amount of value
Some people like them personally I don't

I’ve also noticed that 291-294 are very good at getting up hills. They can climb hills better than a lot of diesel buses.

 

[Volvodart]

If there wasn’t such a lack of deckers I think they would be sold as soon as the first BZLs turn up

That would depend on the terms of the funding they received for them.

 

[H00V3R]

How is the X5 performing at the moment with all the ScotRail cancellations on the North Berwick line? It would be good if the X5 could be improved to either run more frequently or to have a later finish in the day.

Had a trip to North Berwick to see family yesterday and it was certainly busier than usual in the daytime. Full bus heading to NB and roughly 20 going to Edinburgh with a switch onto a double at the Jewel for the peak run to NB. It must be worth it for a double with extra trains not running. It’s a shame the last bus is at 18:20 from Frederick St, there is definitely demand at the moment for a later bus.

Edited to add: Question for more frequent users, would a service like the X5 benefit from an increased summer only timetable? I imagine the Edinburgh - Longniddry Bents - Gullane - North Berwick demand is much increased in the summer and could warrant a 45/30 min frequency instead of 60 as it is now. I say this as deckers are unpractical due to dead running to/from North Berwick everyday instead of using the singles in the garage there.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I’ve also noticed that 291-294 are very good at getting up hills. They can climb hills better than a lot of diesel buses.

They also use alot of battery, around 2-3% to get up the hill on Craighouse Road (on the 23 route - Greenbank end).

 

[paul47B]

Pretty empty in Balerno when seen ..,and always late . Is the terminus in Cramond shared with any other services ?

No other service terminates there but the 47 passes on it's way to Cammo. There isn't enough time given to get through Maybury and Barnton junctions which is why timekeeping isn't great. I'm sure that will be looked into over the next few months.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

No other service terminates there but the 47 passes on it's way to Cammo. There isn't enough time given to get through Maybury and Barnton junctions which is why timekeeping isn't great. I'm sure that will be looked into over the next few months.

I said all along the timings were too ambitious. There was little chance of it working. The route is too long for an hourly service with 2 buses with little to no recovery time. But, that was what the council wanted, so that’s what the council got.

Clearly it could not remain hourly with a third bus, as that is a waste. I guess the benefit of any changes that generated significant room would be its ability to likely serve East Craigs and possibly also West Craigs when such changes are warranted.

 

[InOban]

They also use alot of battery, around 2-3% to get up the hill on Craighouse Road (on the 23 route - Greenbank end).

Presumably they regenerate most of that on the way back down?

 

[Porty]

How is the X5 performing at the moment with all the ScotRail cancellations on the North Berwick line? It would be good if the X5 could be improved to either run more frequently or to have a later finish in the day.

Must admit to not not noticing a huge difference, apart from last Saturday when there were no trains for most of the day. On Sunday there's no X5 of course. My journeys tend to be Edinburgh bound in the mornings and returning in the afternoon/ early evening. Last minute cancellations seem to have settled down and I haven't noticed many, if any, in recent days.

Had a trip to North Berwick to see family yesterday and it was certainly busier than usual in the daytime. Full bus heading to NB and roughly 20 going to Edinburgh with a switch onto a double at the Jewel for the peak run to NB. It must be worth it for a double with extra trains not running. It’s a shame the last bus is at 18:20 from Frederick St, there is definitely demand at the moment for a later bus.

Edited to add: Question for more frequent users, would a service like the X5 benefit from an increased summer only timetable? I imagine the Edinburgh - Longniddry Bents - Gullane - North Berwick demand is much increased in the summer and could warrant a 45/30 min frequency instead of 60 as it is now. I say this as deckers are unpractical due to dead running to/from North Berwick everyday instead of using the singles in the garage there.

I think I've only had a decker on one occasion in the last two years - and I must have travelled on 200 times.

Summer demand is higher, and this is likely to grow with the acquisition by Lothian of Eve Coaches, better promotion and through ticketing of connections in North Berwick and Dunbar/Haddington e.g. National Museum of Flight. It's quite common to see young people, for example, with camping gear heading for the coast on a Friday or Saturday in summer.

I do wonder whether there could be operational benefits in curtailing the route to North Berwick town centre only, with consequential time savings, especially if there is summer strengthening of the route.

 

[Auld reekie]

Pretty empty in Balerno when seen ..,and always late . Is the terminus in Cramond shared with any other services ?

Not when I’ve used it.
About 12 time it reached the Gyle.

 

[CSB0241]

Last seen at MCV Cambridgeshire having interior refits as not they're not being built to spec. I imagine it'll be a little while yet.

I’d assume that we probably won’t see any until at least September then. Volvo have been struggling a lot with managing to build buses/chassis on time from what I can tell. I have heard that there has been very little progress on the 9700DDs that Stagecoach Fife have ordered, & the Lothian BZLs were anticipated for an April 2024 arrival, which is proving to not be the case.

I heard a rumour that the 22 and possibly another route may be moving to Longstone due to reduced parking capacity at central with the electric buses.

My best guess is the 23, as it was run out of Longstone until 2020(?). I think that if this were to happen, 426-437 & 670-680 would be moved from Central. However there are two issues about this:

• The 23’s looking to be a candidate for the BZLDDs, so since they’re being delivered for the Central depot, that probably wouldn’t work.
• The movement of the 22 to Longstone would completely throw the 22A into absolute jeopardy, & it’s definitely a bit more complicated than just getting it to start at Broomhouse instead.

It'd be interesting as to how the timetable would be adjusted if this happened. At present, only one bus in the morning starts from the Gyle with the rest starting from Granton/Elm Row all running towards the Gyle. In the evening, buses only terminate at Elm Row and Granton, coming from the Gyle. There is also a peak journey in the morning doing a singular round trip from Granton at the moment. A transfer to Longstone may eliminate the 22A as well.

This is more or less what I was worried about.

I can't see any other route options other than the 23, but I would expect that to be one of the routes operated by the BZLs.

It’s a shame, as if it weren’t for that, it’d be a no brainer.

It would make sense to me to transfer all of 426-437 as the 22 currently uses those and then that keeps the batch together. To use up the rest of them in service it would need to be a fairly short route.

The remaining buses could always be used on the 20.
In reality, they’d probably just be kept as spare buses for peak routes like the X33, or in case of a breakdown on a route like the 44 for example. Another (probably fairly wild) idea would be decreasing the 2 down to every 30min Mon-Fri & every 60min Sat-Sun & evenings, & getting it to use them too, but I think that the likelyhood of that is slim to none.

Could the 1 transfer, go to double deckers and get a frequency reduction back to every 15 minutes?

I doubt it’d be every 15min. My best guess is every 20min Mon-Fri & every 30min Sat-Sun & evenings.

Or the 27? As both termini are in the west of the city.

I doubt it. It’d be hard without rerouting it slightly to somehwere like Torphin or Colinton.

I thought the 22A was to serve the businesses near South Gyle Crescent in the early morning before the 12 and 400 go through that area?

It is, yes, but that’d be hard if it were to run out of Longstone.

The 1 is reportedly a high candidate for BZL operation, so the chances it moves are low. The 27 doesn’t really go anywhere near Longstone and again is potentially lined up for BZL’s.

I haven’t heard anything about the 27 using BZLs. I think it’s unlikely as it’s very busy quite a lot (as someone who is a fairly frequent user of it) & the BZLDDs have a relatively low capacity compared to other double decker buses on the market.

I don’t think there’s a need to move all of 426-437 to Longstone. The 22 only needs 6 buses plus an extra in the peak. You could argue the 22 could probably get away with using the ex London B9TL’s to be honest. It’s rarely full now as it barely touches the City Centre.

I can see the reasoning behind this, but I don’t entirely agree. I think that it’d be better to have all the 15-plates stationed at one depot, seeing as there’s only 12. They could even be transferred to a different route like the 400 (if repainted into Skylink livery) so that it could get the frequency increase it desperately needs.

Central already has a few mmc’s too many in my opinion so if you moved its 3 ex London’s (1000, 1002 and 1003) plus a few mmc’s (670-672) all to Longstone then I think that would probably work. Using ex London’s on the 34 and 35 isn’t ideal and this would likely eliminate that as it has a gain of 3 mmc’s. Central only needs 22 mmc’s for the 3 routes that primarily use them (8, 9 and 37). This would still leave Central with 4 spares. I’m sure the 8 and 9 could cope with the odd 11 plate B9TL if it came to it.

I’d maybe only move 1000 & 670-672 to Longstone, & I’d move 1002/3 to Marine so it isn’t seperated from the rest of the Ex-Metrolines.

The 8 and 9 have always been the prime candidates for the BZLs as they are quite a bit shorter than most of the other central routes.

They also already use the E400EVs, so it’d onlt make sense for them to also use the BZLDDs.

The 8 and 9 will probably receive the first batch when they enter service. Other candidates are the 1, 7, 10, 23, 24 and 27. However at least one, probably two of these routes will need to miss out as it’s too many. For me the 1 and 7 are the routes to miss out and the 10, 23, 24 and 27 pick up the rest, but time will tell what happens. If you add that altogether it’s just under 50 Electric buses out of 54 or 55 (depending on 997’s future) if it happens. I think 291-294 will find themselves mostly on the 9 or 24 going forward though as their capacity and range I think is slightly less favourable.

In complete honesty, I have no faith in the 7 getting BZLs. It may have had it’s occasional fair share of E400EVs on a few Sundays last year (& on 2 or 3 occasions, 997), & I do think BZLs would improve the route, but I just don’t see it happening. I also don’t see the 27 getting them either, & I wouldn’t exactly want it to, as the Gemini 3s do really suit the route.

A good use for two of them would be to put chargers in at marine and use them for the Uni shuttles, that would see off 905-6. Perhaps the other two could be used as shuttle vehicles for drivers, can't think of a better way to use a BYD!

This is certainly an idea. I think it’d be more likely for them to just run the shuttle out of Central instead.

I know the BYD chassis is unpopular with some, but the Alexander City body is the best looking vehicle in the fleet. If they were in Lothian livery rather than Scottish Power, they’d be stunning

I agree.

Ok, I wouldn’t go that far. They do look grand, but the best in the fleet is a stretch & a half. I actually came up with a couple custom liveries for the Scottish Power livery on the BYDs a few months ago, which I will put at the bottom of my post.

BZL for me. Just ticks the boxes. Now I know that’s kind of cheating with 997, but it’s still on fleet.

I really like 997s livery, but I’m lukewarm on the new EVStripes livery.

I had a ride on the new 32 today. I boarded at Gyle Centre at 3:05 pm and got off in Cramond. 11 boarded at Gyle Centre and there were already lots of passengers on board. There were only 4 empty seats. Bus 17 did the job. Barnton and Maybury junctions are going to be a bit of a problem for this service. Good to have the link again between Gyle and Barnton.

Pretty empty in Balerno when seen ..,and always late . Is the terminus in Cramond shared with any other services ?

It’s a council tender, we can’t be too shocked about passenger numbers. I was also rather surprised by how busy it was between the Gyle & Cramond when I first rode it however, but I do think it’s going to continue getting good usage.

I wonder if they have an obligation to keep them for so long as funding was provided from SP Energy Networks.

I assume so, I would be rather surprised if not.

——————

After this discussion, I’ve come up with some ideas for potential fleet movements that could happen after the BZLDDs arrive. I would like to state that I am building off of the Eves fleet list I came up with in the Eves thread, as well as some changes to the fleet numbers of 1000-1153:

Current Fleet No.	Updated Fleet No.
1001-1050	301-350
1051-1062	519-530
1063-1140	751-827
1141-1153	828-840

Fleet No.	Vehicle	Current	Moved To
1-10	V7900H MK1	Central
12-20	V7900H MK2	Central & Longstone	Marine
21-28	V7900H MK2	Longstone	Longstone
29-30	V7900H MK2	Central	Longstone
46-50	V7900H MK2	Marine	Central
51-65	Eclipse 3F	Musselburgh	Dunbar
66-95	MCV Evora	Longstone	Longstone
96	Optare Solo	Dunbar	Dunbar
97	Optare Solo SR	Dunbar	Dunbar
98	City 45	Dunbar	Dunbar
99	Rosero Connect	Dunbar	Dunbar
101-103	E200MMC	Dunbar	Dunbar
172 176-190	Eclipse 2	Marine	Marine
195-198	Eclipse 2	Marine	Musselburgh
199	Eclipse 2	Musselburgh	Musselburgh
291-294	E200EV	Central	Central
301-332	Gemini 2	All LB Depots	Marine
333-350	Gemini 2	Livingston	Livingston
351-400	Gemini 2	Central	Central
401-425	Gemini 3C	Marine	Central
426-437	Gemini 3F	Central	Central
441-468	Gemini 3F	Central	Marine
469-495	Gemini 3F	Marine	Marine
496/7	Gemini 3F	Longstone	Longstone (Skylink)
498-510	Gemini 3F	Longstone (Skylink)	Longstone (Skylink)
511-530	Gemini 3F	Musselburgh	Musselburgh
551-570	Gemini 3FH	Longstone	Longstone
571-590	Gemini 3FH	Livingston	Livingston
601-635	E400MMC	Longstone	Longstone
635-650	E400MMC	Longstone & Marine	Marine
651-670	E400MMC	Longstone	Longstone
671-698	E400MMC	Central	Central
699-700	E400MMC		Central
701-750	BZL DD		Central
751-827	E400XLB	Central	Central
828-840	Gemini 2	Longstone	Longstone
841-850	Gemini F	Livingston	Livingston
905/6	Gemini F	Marine	Livingston
926-928	Gemini 2	Central	Livingston
929-936	Gemini 2	Livingston	Livingston
937-950	Gemini 2	Musselburgh	Musselburgh
951-960	Gemini 2	Marine	Marine
1000	Gemini 2	Central

Going back to the E400EV discussion, I have come up with three alternative liveries to integrate it into the main fleet a bit more.

• Livery 1 is basically just the FotF* livery, but with the rear in the lime green of the E400EVs currently (imagine if 997 had a green back instead of blue, & had the FotF livery overlaid over it).
• Livery 2 is also basically just the FotF livery, but this time, the madder is painted green, & is a bit thicker.
• Livery 3 is the standard FotF livery, just with the white above the madder being painted green.

Mod note: *FoFT: Fleet of the Future - please ensure that any jargon is properly defined. Thanks

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Going back to the E400EV discussion, I have come up with three alternative liveries to integrate it into the main fleet a bit more.

• Livery 1 is basically just the FotF livery, but with the rear in the lime green of the E400EVs currently (imagine if 997 had a green back instead of blue, & had the FotF livery overlaid over it).
• Livery 2 is also basically just the FotF livery, but this time, the madder is painted green, & is a bit thicker.
• Livery 3 is the standard FotF livery, just with the white above the madder being painted green.

I would have 291-294 in a completely seperate livery or the current fleet livery. No need to integrate the two and make things clash awkwardly. The second option wouldn't be great as although they aren't the same shades, someone (especially those with pooerer eyesight) could mistake that for an East Coast Buses or Lothian Country bus. My fear is if they get the fleet livery the part around the destination box will look awkward since the body design is different. I would probably give 291-294 to Marine for the University shuttle as previously mentioned on this page.

After this discussion, I’ve come up with some ideas for potential fleet movements that could happen after the BZLDDs arrive. I would like to state that I am building off of the Eves fleet list I came up with in the Eves thread, as well as some changes to the fleet numbers of 1000-1153:

Where did the two extra ADL Enviro400 MMCs come from?

Moving all of 51-65 to Dunbar would be rather stupid, no?

I think it’d be more likely for them to just run the [University] shuttle out of Central instead.

Not true, the shuttle is run by Edinburgh Bus Tours drivers due to the extra availability in winter time especially, moving it would not only give Tour drivers less work therefore wasting resources. Maybe to avoid wasting battery power they could make one or two (assuming by doing this they'd also increase the PVR to 3 and have a listed frequency) deadrun on a part route Service 12/45 from Marine, if PVR didn't increase they'd maybe have one do that.

 

[Siemens Trains]

I suspect some of it comes from the pricing structure, or rather lack of cross operator ticketing, or more specifically tap tap cap style cross operator ticketing. Granted there is OneTicket and Plus bus. One ticket is hard to get and only really useful when going out of Edinburgh. Doesn't work for day tickets including trains. Plus bus needs a train ticket too.

One-Ticket only being useful when travelling outwith Edinburgh explains the point quite well! The Edinburgh passenger mindset of Lothian being their exclusive operator is close to being true in practice and they have little need to bother about using other bus companies. It doesn't have much to do with pricing or cross operator ticketing.
Anyone under 22 or over 60 already enjoys a cross operator ticket at a remarkably low price and they generally only travel on Lothian services by choice.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I’d assume that we probably won’t see any until at least September then. Volvo have been struggling a lot with managing to build buses/chassis on time from what I can tell. I have heard that there has been very little progress on the 9700DDs that Stagecoach Fife have ordered, & the Lothian BZLs were anticipated for an April 2024 arrival, which is proving to not be the case.


My best guess is the 23, as it was run out of Longstone until 2020(?). I think that if this were to happen, 426-437 & 670-680 would be moved from Central. However there are two issues about this:

• The 23’s looking to be a candidate for the BZLDDs, so since they’re being delivered for the Central depot, that probably wouldn’t work.
• The movement of the 22 to Longstone would completely throw the 22A into absolute jeopardy, & it’s definitely a bit more complicated than just getting it to start at Broomhouse instead.

• green.

Perhaps the 22A could be run from Central and then start on a 31 or another rush bus?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Perhaps the 22A could be run from Central and then start on a 31 or another rush bus?

Indeed that is what I have thought. This is likely how it would look. Clearly, it needs some work as you can see it’s a very Central friendly timetable. Anyway here’s what you could do:

The first 22A arriving at 0437 could go onto a new 31 starting at 0450 from East Craigs. This bus currently starts at Elm Row at 0525. The second 22A arriving at the Gyle at 0507 could do the 0520 31 from East Craigs. The last 22A arriving at 0537 could do the 0550 31 from East Craigs. As that run currently uses the 0539 arrival at East Craigs, that instead could switch to do the 0606 departure which currently comes dead from Central giving it a slightly better layover. The 0555 22 from Elm Row wouldn’t be needed if Longstone ran the route though as it sits in between existing 22’s and is really just to stop it running dead.

The 6 Longstone 22’s would therefore likely start like this:

0524 from Granton Harbour
0554 from Granton Harbour
0614 from Granton Harbour
0627 from Granton Harbour
0601 from Gyle
0634 from Gyle

All buses could finish as follows:

1854 arrival at Granton Harbour
1948 arrival at Granton Harbour
2203 arrival at Granton Harbour
2328 arrival at Granton Harbour
2315 arrival at Gyle
2352 arrival at Gyle

The Central extra evening peak would need to change to finish at Granton at 19:13 rather than carry on all night. The 18:54 arrival instead would need to carry on for the remainder of service. This being because Central is best keeping the peak extra.

As you can see, most of the journeys are still starting and finishing at Granton. This doesn’t really work too well in my opinion, so it’s likely if it were to move, a completely new timetable is needed.

 

[ScotRail158725]

My best guess is the 23, as it was run out of Longstone until 2020(?). I think that if this were to happen, 426-437 & 670-680 would be moved from Central. However there are two issues about this:

The main issue being you’re moving 23 buses for a TVR of about 14

The remaining buses could always be used on the 20.
In reality, they’d probably just be kept as spare buses for peak routes like the X33, or in case of a breakdown on a route like the 44 for example. Another (probably fairly wild) idea would be decreasing the 2 down to every 30min Mon-Fri & every 60min Sat-Sun & evenings, & getting it to use them too, but I think that the likelyhood of that is slim to none.

Optimistic here its not got logic behind it

I can see the reasoning behind this, but I don’t entirely agree. I think that it’d be better to have all the 15-plates stationed at one depot, seeing as there’s only 12. They could even be transferred to a different route like the 400 (if repainted into Skylink livery) so that it could get the frequency increase it desperately needs.

Why would they all need to be kept together its not like the B5 is a rare type in the fleet? The 400 doesn’t need an increase in frequency either the occasional extras do the job

I’d maybe only move 1000 & 670-672 to Longstone, & I’d move 1002/3 to Marine so it isn’t seperated from the rest of the Ex-Metrolines.

There’s no need for fleet standardisation in depots, other than the BYDs theres no unique types in the fleet that are better off kept together

——————

After this discussion, I’ve come up with some ideas for potential fleet movements that could happen after the BZLDDs arrive. I would like to state that I am building off of the Eves fleet list I came up with in the Eves thread, as well as some changes to the fleet numbers of 1000-1153:

Current Fleet No.	Updated Fleet No.
1001-1050	301-350
1051-1062	519-530
1063-1140	751-827
1141-1153	828-840

Fleet No.	Vehicle	Current	Moved To
1-10	V7900H MK1	Central
12-20	V7900H MK2	Central & Longstone	Marine
21-28	V7900H MK2	Longstone	Longstone
29-30	V7900H MK2	Central	Longstone
46-50	V7900H MK2	Marine	Central
51-65	Eclipse 3F	Musselburgh	Dunbar
66-95	MCV Evora	Longstone	Longstone
96	Optare Solo	Dunbar	Dunbar
97	Optare Solo SR	Dunbar	Dunbar
98	City 45	Dunbar	Dunbar
99	Rosero Connect	Dunbar	Dunbar
101-103	E200MMC	Dunbar	Dunbar
172 176-190	Eclipse 2	Marine	Marine
195-198	Eclipse 2	Marine	Musselburgh
199	Eclipse 2	Musselburgh	Musselburgh
291-294	E200EV	Central	Central
301-332	Gemini 2	All LB Depots	Marine
333-350	Gemini 2	Livingston	Livingston
351-400	Gemini 2	Central	Central
401-425	Gemini 3C	Marine	Central
426-437	Gemini 3F	Central	Central
441-468	Gemini 3F	Central	Marine
469-495	Gemini 3F	Marine	Marine
496/7	Gemini 3F	Longstone	Longstone (Skylink)
498-510	Gemini 3F	Longstone (Skylink)	Longstone (Skylink)
511-530	Gemini 3F	Musselburgh	Musselburgh
551-570	Gemini 3FH	Longstone	Longstone
571-590	Gemini 3FH	Livingston	Livingston
601-635	E400MMC	Longstone	Longstone
635-650	E400MMC	Longstone & Marine	Marine
651-670	E400MMC	Longstone	Longstone
671-698	E400MMC	Central	Central
699-700	E400MMC		Central
701-750	BZL DD		Central
751-827	E400XLB	Central	Central
828-840	Gemini 2	Longstone	Longstone
841-850	Gemini F	Livingston	Livingston
905/6	Gemini F	Marine	Livingston
926-928	Gemini 2	Central	Livingston
929-936	Gemini 2	Livingston	Livingston
937-950	Gemini 2	Musselburgh	Musselburgh
951-960	Gemini 2	Marine	Marine
1000	Gemini 2	Central

Do any of these moves even balance out where the work is needed? The eve depot certainly wont need the addition of 15 buses and the fleet renumbering is pointless

Perhaps the 22A could be run from Central and then start on a 31 or another rush bus?

Was my thinking exactly the 22 to Longstone makes sense and the 22A could be more than useful to replace a dead run for the 31 or even a 2

 

[Mal]

I’d assume that we probably won’t see any until at least September then. Volvo have been struggling a lot with managing to build buses/chassis on time from what I can tell. I have heard that there has been very little progress on the 9700DDs that Stagecoach Fife have ordered, & the Lothian BZLs were anticipated for an April 2024 arrival, which is proving to not be the case.


My best guess is the 23, as it was run out of Longstone until 2020(?). I think that if this were to happen, 426-437 & 670-680 would be moved from Central. However there are two issues about this:

• The 23’s looking to be a candidate for the BZLDDs, so since they’re being delivered for the Central depot, that probably wouldn’t work.
• The movement of the 22 to Longstone would completely throw the 22A into absolute jeopardy, & it’s definitely a bit more complicated than just getting it to start at Broomhouse instead.

This is more or less what I was worried about.


It’s a shame, as if it weren’t for that, it’d be a no brainer.


The remaining buses could always be used on the 20.
In reality, they’d probably just be kept as spare buses for peak routes like the X33, or in case of a breakdown on a route like the 44 for example. Another (probably fairly wild) idea would be decreasing the 2 down to every 30min Mon-Fri & every 60min Sat-Sun & evenings, & getting it to use them too, but I think that the likelyhood of that is slim to none.


I doubt it’d be every 15min. My best guess is every 20min Mon-Fri & every 30min Sat-Sun & evenings.


I doubt it. It’d be hard without rerouting it slightly to somehwere like Torphin or Colinton.


It is, yes, but that’d be hard if it were to run out of Longstone.


I haven’t heard anything about the 27 using BZLs. I think it’s unlikely as it’s very busy quite a lot (as someone who is a fairly frequent user of it) & the BZLDDs have a relatively low capacity compared to other double decker buses on the market.


I can see the reasoning behind this, but I don’t entirely agree. I think that it’d be better to have all the 15-plates stationed at one depot, seeing as there’s only 12. They could even be transferred to a different route like the 400 (if repainted into Skylink livery) so that it could get the frequency increase it desperately needs.


I’d maybe only move 1000 & 670-672 to Longstone, & I’d move 1002/3 to Marine so it isn’t seperated from the rest of the Ex-Metrolines.


They also already use the E400EVs, so it’d onlt make sense for them to also use the BZLDDs.


In complete honesty, I have no faith in the 7 getting BZLs. It may have had it’s occasional fair share of E400EVs on a few Sundays last year (& on 2 or 3 occasions, 997), & I do think BZLs would improve the route, but I just don’t see it happening. I also don’t see the 27 getting them either, & I wouldn’t exactly want it to, as the Gemini 3s do really suit the route.


This is certainly an idea. I think it’d be more likely for them to just run the shuttle out of Central instead.



Ok, I wouldn’t go that far. They do look grand, but the best in the fleet is a stretch & a half. I actually came up with a couple custom liveries for the Scottish Power livery on the BYDs a few months ago, which I will put at the bottom of my post.


I really like 997s livery, but I’m lukewarm on the new EVStripes livery.



It’s a council tender, we can’t be too shocked about passenger numbers. I was also rather surprised by how busy it was between the Gyle & Cramond when I first rode it however, but I do think it’s going to continue getting good usage.


I assume so, I would be rather surprised if not.

——————

After this discussion, I’ve come up with some ideas for potential fleet movements that could happen after the BZLDDs arrive. I would like to state that I am building off of the Eves fleet list I came up with in the Eves thread, as well as some changes to the fleet numbers of 1000-1153:

Current Fleet No.	Updated Fleet No.
1001-1050	301-350
1051-1062	519-530
1063-1140	751-827
1141-1153	828-840

Fleet No.	Vehicle	Current	Moved To
1-10	V7900H MK1	Central
12-20	V7900H MK2	Central & Longstone	Marine
21-28	V7900H MK2	Longstone	Longstone
29-30	V7900H MK2	Central	Longstone
46-50	V7900H MK2	Marine	Central
51-65	Eclipse 3F	Musselburgh	Dunbar
66-95	MCV Evora	Longstone	Longstone
96	Optare Solo	Dunbar	Dunbar
97	Optare Solo SR	Dunbar	Dunbar
98	City 45	Dunbar	Dunbar
99	Rosero Connect	Dunbar	Dunbar
101-103	E200MMC	Dunbar	Dunbar
172 176-190	Eclipse 2	Marine	Marine
195-198	Eclipse 2	Marine	Musselburgh
199	Eclipse 2	Musselburgh	Musselburgh
291-294	E200EV	Central	Central
301-332	Gemini 2	All LB Depots	Marine
333-350	Gemini 2	Livingston	Livingston
351-400	Gemini 2	Central	Central
401-425	Gemini 3C	Marine	Central
426-437	Gemini 3F	Central	Central
441-468	Gemini 3F	Central	Marine
469-495	Gemini 3F	Marine	Marine
496/7	Gemini 3F	Longstone	Longstone (Skylink)
498-510	Gemini 3F	Longstone (Skylink)	Longstone (Skylink)
511-530	Gemini 3F	Musselburgh	Musselburgh
551-570	Gemini 3FH	Longstone	Longstone
571-590	Gemini 3FH	Livingston	Livingston
601-635	E400MMC	Longstone	Longstone
635-650	E400MMC	Longstone & Marine	Marine
651-670	E400MMC	Longstone	Longstone
671-698	E400MMC	Central	Central
699-700	E400MMC		Central
701-750	BZL DD		Central
751-827	E400XLB	Central	Central
828-840	Gemini 2	Longstone	Longstone
841-850	Gemini F	Livingston	Livingston
905/6	Gemini F	Marine	Livingston
926-928	Gemini 2	Central	Livingston
929-936	Gemini 2	Livingston	Livingston
937-950	Gemini 2	Musselburgh	Musselburgh
951-960	Gemini 2	Marine	Marine
1000	Gemini 2	Central

Going back to the E400EV discussion, I have come up with three alternative liveries to integrate it into the main fleet a bit more.

• Livery 1 is basically just the FotF* livery, but with the rear in the lime green of the E400EVs currently (imagine if 997 had a green back instead of blue, & had the FotF livery overlaid over it).
• Livery 2 is also basically just the FotF livery, but this time, the madder is painted green, & is a bit thicker.
• Livery 3 is the standard FotF livery, just with the white above the madder being painted green.

Mod note: *FoFT: Fleet of the Future - please ensure that any jargon is properly defineSorryd. Thanks

Sorry, but your examples are just awful. Edinburgh buses have always been madder and white - apart from that harlequin rubbish - and Edinburghers would likely not recognise one of these a Lothian bus. When these new Deckers arrive in the more or less traditional livery, I can see locals welcoming them back to traditional colours.

 

[NorthEastern]

Sorry, but your examples are just awful. Edinburgh buses have always been madder and white - apart from that harlequin rubbish - and Edinburghers would likely not recognise one of these a Lothian bus. When these new Deckers arrive in the more or less traditional livery, I can see locals welcoming them back to traditional colours.

I agree, the Lothian brand (I.e. livery) is notionally worth a fortune as it is so highly recognised locally, for quality, fairness, and long term commitment to the area.

 

[Mal]

I agree, the Lothian brand (I.e. livery) is notionally worth a fortune as it is so highly recognised locally, for quality, fairness, and long term commitment to the area.

As all (or most) London buses are Red, Lothian with its' madder and white is unique in Britain and identifies as Edinburgh.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

We are delighted to announce that Doors Open Day will return in September 2024, this year at our Marine depot!

As a result of ongoing works at our Central depot, we have taken the decision to throw open the doors of our Marine garage instead where visitors can take a look behind-the-scenes at operations in this busy location.

Looks like the Doors Open Day will be based at Marine this year.

Lothian's Doors Open Day 2024 - Lothian Buses

We are delighted to announce that Doors Open Day will return in September 2024, this year at our Marine depot! As a result of ongoing works at our Central depot, we have taken the decision to throw open the doors of our Marine garage instead where visitors can take a look behind-the-scenes at...

www.lothianbuses.com

This would suggest that Central battery installations won't be finalised by September then alongside other infastructure being installed, although Marine is my favourite depot so I'm quite happy. It would be good if they also held one at Longstone next year, though it probably won't happen. It makes sense as Marine is based along the coast with easy access to the city.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Looks like the Doors Open Day will be based at Marine this year.

I think they’ve made the sensible choice to pick Marine over Longstone. Longstone’s layout by having the busy roundabout, the inspection pits right at the front and most of the free space being at the back, it just wouldn’t have worked to be honest. They’d have to have opened the old gates on Murrayburn Road and used that as the Doors Open Day entrance. Both Central and Marine are somewhat the opposite of this.

Marine has obviously always been partly accessible due to certain routes terminating there, but it will be interesting to go beyond the ramp and see what else is there.

 

[Mal]

Looks like the Doors Open Day will be based at Marine this year.

Lothian's Doors Open Day 2024 - Lothian Buses

We are delighted to announce that Doors Open Day will return in September 2024, this year at our Marine depot! As a result of ongoing works at our Central depot, we have taken the decision to throw open the doors of our Marine garage instead where visitors can take a look behind-the-scenes at...

www.lothianbuses.com

This would suggest that Central battery installations won't be finalised by September then alongside other infastructure being installed, although Marine is my favourite depot so I'm quite happy. It would be good if they also held one at Longstone next year, though it probably won't happen. It makes sense as Marine is based along the coast with easy access to the city.

That's brilliant news! Now I can go ahead and arrange B & B for my visit back home! Just wondering if there will be vintage buses operating and if so, what route will they do?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Marine has obviously always been partly accessible due to certain routes terminating there, but it will be interesting to go beyond the ramp and see what else is there.

Now I wonder if they will have the 45 operating on the open day, it would make sense, screen it for 45 Marine Depot, possibly a shuttle from the City Centre, although you think they'd have announced that.

 

[Lothianbus703]

Now I wonder if they will have the 45 operating on the open day, it would make sense, screen it for 45 Marine Depot, possibly a shuttle from the City Centre, although you think they'd have announced that.

The 45 runs on a Saturday but only between Heriot-watt and Leith Street, maybe an extention could be made with possibly extra buses to relieve pressure off the otherwise busy 19.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

The 45 runs on a Saturday but only between Heriot-watt and Leith Street, maybe an extention could be made with possibly extra buses to relieve pressure off the otherwise busy 19.

Whoops I thought it was on a Sunday. I think if they did it, it would be two different services running as the 45 because they've got a timetable to follow.

 

[H00V3R]

Whoops I thought it was on a Sunday. I think if they did it, it would be two different services running as the 45 because they've got a timetable to follow.

Maybe a 45E and 45W? 45W would be current saturday timetable from Elm Row - HWU, and a 45E running Bristo Place/Forest Road - Marine Garage. Alternatively they could run it under a different number (19/26?) that would have extra short runs to Marine Garage as the destination.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Now I wonder if they will have the 45 operating on the open day, it would make sense, screen it for 45 Marine Depot, possibly a shuttle from the City Centre, although you think they'd have announced that.

I would think if heritage vehicles are to run, they will run on the 26 between Haymarket and Eastfield. I cannot see why they would need to go into the depot. With Central you were always expected to walk from Elm Row.

 

[JKP]

I would think if heritage vehicles are to run, they will run on the 26 between Haymarket and Eastfield. I cannot see why they would need to go into the depot. With Central you were always expected to walk from Elm Row.

How would buses turn around without going into the depot?

 

[roadierway77]

How would buses turn around without going into the depot?

They'd just turn around at Joppa Pans, the eastern terminus of the 19.