Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[scosutsut]

Seems a big amount of outlay that they put out for Motorcoaches, anyone got a rough idea how much they spent on Newbridge, the coaches themselves and staff. I haven't been up to speed on that side of it, I am assuming Newbridge is now gone?

It was getting used to store vehicles, not sure now.

 

[OmniCity999]

Seems a big amount of outlay that they put out for Motorcoaches, anyone got a rough idea how much they spent on Newbridge, the coaches themselves and staff. I haven't been up to speed on that side of it, I am assuming Newbridge is now gone?

We still have it, and all the new order coaches but their sitting dormant.

We've a load of second hand Elites and Panthers that were bought just before lockdown, but we never picked them up and their for sale again.

 

[Swanny200]

We still have it, and all the new order coaches but their sitting dormant.

We've a load of second hand Elites and Panthers that were bought just before lockdown, but we never picked them up and their for sale again.

The thing is, the new coaches were really smart and IIRC were Lothian not the first customer for the Green Arrow coaches, was the work never there bar the routes that they started (The EX routes) or did COVID put it well and truly to bed?

 

[ScotRail158725]

I haven't been up to speed on that side of it, I am assuming Newbridge is now gone?

still was a bunch of B7RLEs (although possibly now moved), that publicity v-reg single, those open top City Sightseeing B9s, and heritage vehicles at Newbridge on top of the Motorcoaches fleet a couple of weeks ago so id guess newbridge is still there

 

[OmniCity999]

The thing is, the new coaches were really smart and IIRC were Lothian not the first customer for the Green Arrow coaches, was the work never there bar the routes that they started (The EX routes) or did COVID put it well and truly to bed?

it takes time to build a reputable and well established Coach company. it could have been done - but Covid got in the way. Had we done it a year earlier or in say 2 years time, we may be in a better position but it was just really bad timing.

That being said, there is contract work out there so they could be chasing it, but nobody is. I think the company image needs to be put to one side and they should just stick what coaches we have out on City Link work, maybe the odd service run (for those which are accessible). LMC could be very lucrative - even at this time, but they need to be less "snooty". Just take up some school work already.

IIRC the Leopard Interurbans were designed in collaboration with Lothian and the product was launched off the back of our purchase - but i havent seen any other orders? They are very similar of the Yutong's Ember run (in terms of body and market share) and the type that Scania Make, i think its the i4?

 

[Swanny200]

it takes time to build a reputable and well established Coach company. it could have been done - but Covid got in the way. Had we done it a year earlier or in say 2 years time, we may be in a better position but it was just really bad timing.

That being said, there is contract work out there so they could be chasing it, but nobody is. I think the company image needs to be put to one side and they should just stick what coaches we have out on City Link work, maybe the odd service run (for those which are accessible). LMC could be very lucrative - even at this time, but they need to be less "snooty". Just take up some school work already.

IIRC the Leopard Interurbans were designed in collaboration with Lothian and the product was launched off the back of our purchase - but i havent seen any other orders? They are very similar of the Yutong's Ember run (in terms of body and market share) and the type that Scania Make, i think its the i4?

The Irizar i4, I was kind of expecting it to be similar to the way Mairs used to be in Aberdeen, they were originally part of Grampian IIRC just as firstgroup took off, they did everything, schools, rail replacement and I think some citylink work, but then as you say LMC didn't seem to take any school runs. It is all fair trying to do tours of scotland, but there are already well established operators doing that, Lothian had been out the game for a while, the more sensible solution would have been to check the market first and do more than just tours, I think they were even reluctant to take on rail replacement work at first were they not?

 

[CN04NRJ]

still was a bunch of B7RLEs (although possibly now moved), that publicity v-reg single, those open top City Sightseeing B9s, and heritage vehicles at Newbridge on top of the Motorcoaches fleet a couple of weeks ago so id guess newbridge is still there

I saw a picture on facebook yesterday with large amounts of the 136-166 batch down Marine - mostly or all unbranded.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I saw a picture on facebook yesterday with large amounts of the 136-166 batch down Marine - mostly or all unbranded.

few of those recently went to Ensigns aswell recently

 

[CN04NRJ]

few of those recently went to Ensigns aswell recently

I thought that was only the earlier ones (up to 135), a few of which are on hire to Yellow buses I think? But still advertised for sale on Ensignbus.

I think it was 164 that went with 158 to MP Travel.

 

[OmniCity999]

The Irizar i4, I was kind of expecting it to be similar to the way Mairs used to be in Aberdeen, they were originally part of Grampian IIRC just as firstgroup took off, they did everything, schools, rail replacement and I think some citylink work, but then as you say LMC didn't seem to take any school runs. It is all fair trying to do tours of scotland, but there are already well established operators doing that, Lothian had been out the game for a while, the more sensible solution would have been to check the market first and do more than just tours, I think they were even reluctant to take on rail replacement work at first were they not?

The business model of LMC was/is very much high quality private hire, tours and corporate.

In reality, what should have been done was buy 5 B11RT's, 5 B11R's as they have.

Then take end of life Lothian service stock, spruce them up and churn them out on school services until each vehicle dies, then replace accordingly. End of Life Lothian vehicles would cost peanuts to transfer between operations, clean them up, run them on schools - this in turn would keep the quiet, growing coach company afloat while it runs empty tourist services.

Over the summers, flog off the ones that survive for pure profit - in school spec, and start again every August, going by fleet renewals. By which point it would be the festival and tourist seasons and the B11R's would earn their keep.

In the winter, when its quiet - run the coaches between the big cities for Christmas markets etc, run uni services at Christmas taking students home - then bring them back in January!

 

[Swanny200]

The business model of LMC was/is very much high quality private hire, tours and corporate.

In reality, what should have been done was buy 5 B11RT's, 5 B11R's as they have.

Then take end of life Lothian service stock, spruce them up and churn them out on school services until each vehicle dies, then replace accordingly. End of Life Lothian vehicles would cost peanuts to transfer between operations, clean them up, run them on schools - this in turn would keep the quiet, growing coach company afloat while it runs empty tourist services.

Over the summers, flog off the ones that survive for pure profit - in school spec, and start again every August, going by fleet renewals. By which point it would be the festival and tourist seasons and the B11R's would earn their keep.

In the winter, when its quiet - run the coaches between the big cities for Christmas markets etc, run uni services at Christmas taking students home - then bring them back in January!

Agreed, when you look at how much in demand Lothian's old stock is and how long a lot of it lasts in their new owners hands it is testament to how Lothian took care of them, why didn't you get the job of MD of LMC lol

 

[OmniCity999]

Agreed, when you look at how much in demand Lothian's old stock is and how long a lot of it lasts in their new owners hands it is testament to how Lothian took care of them, why didn't you get the job of MD of LMC lol

...because i have common sense /sarcasm/

 

[ScotRail158725]

I thought that was only the earlier ones (up to 135), a few of which are on hire to Yellow buses I think? But still advertised for sale on Ensignbus.

I think it was 164 that went with 158 to MP Travel.

yep, both to be reregistered and refurbished soon. 131, 132 & 134 are on loan to Yellow Buses however 150 is now at Ensigns along with at least another one

 

[Jordanscot]

Just went past seafield.. 3 evoras parked outside with presumably more inside. Nice to see them arriving.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Exactly, it's one of the downsides of having a municipal bus operator. Those in the council have far too much power given their lack of knowledge, and management at bus operators are more reluctant to oppose council decisions in fear that it risks their job. Regardless of if you agreed with what he did or not just look at how they booted out Hall.

Worth stating here that the council are looking much more widely at the city and how it operates. During the busiest times, Princes Street is absolutely crammed with people. Even removing all non-bus/tram/taxi traffic isn't enough to make it work. The tram and bus setup on Princes Street is the minimum required today for the two services to run. Where the tram stop reduces the road down to one lane each way, there are no bus stops. Where there are bus stops, other buses are able to drive on the tram tracks to bypass them. Making the pavements wider isn't possible without dropping one of the two, and it's going to be a lot easier to move some buses than it is to move some trams!

George Street will see a similar sort of transformation. The road capacity simply won't exist any more for the number of vehicles which currently cross the city centre.

In any case, the tram is expected to replace the bus for many journeys. Today, the tram network is still functionally an afterthought. Once the line opens to Newhaven, it will be possible and desirable to heavily change the bus network. Why would you want to run a bus which just duplicates the tram route? The plan to not only build Line 3 down to Cameron Toll and beyond, but to provide not-previously-considered links from the Bridges to the Leith Walk tram route and from the Bridges to Haymarket, means the tram will be able to provide direct links on all of the major corridors. At that point, all the bus network needs to do is fill in the gaps.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Worth stating here that the council are looking much more widely at the city and how it operates. During the busiest times, Princes Street is absolutely crammed with people. Even removing all non-bus/tram/taxi traffic isn't enough to make it work. The tram and bus setup on Princes Street is the minimum required today for the two services to run. Where the tram stop reduces the road down to one lane each way, there are no bus stops. Where there are bus stops, other buses are able to drive on the tram tracks to bypass them. Making the pavements wider isn't possible without dropping one of the two, and it's going to be a lot easier to move some buses than it is to move some trams!

George Street will see a similar sort of transformation. The road capacity simply won't exist any more for the number of vehicles which currently cross the city centre.

In any case, the tram is expected to replace the bus for many journeys. Today, the tram network is still functionally an afterthought. Once the line opens to Newhaven, it will be possible and desirable to heavily change the bus network. Why would you want to run a bus which just duplicates the tram route? The plan to not only build Line 3 down to Cameron Toll and beyond, but to provide not-previously-considered links from the Bridges to the Leith Walk tram route and from the Bridges to Haymarket, means the tram will be able to provide direct links on all of the major corridors. At that point, all the bus network needs to do is fill in the gaps.

What benefits, if any, will these hypothetical tram lines offer and why should they come at the expense of a perfectly workable bus network?

Just went past seafield.. 3 evoras parked outside with presumably more inside. Nice to see them arriving.

That's one more then, at least

 

[computerSaysNo]

Worth stating here that the council are looking much more widely at the city and how it operates. During the busiest times, Princes Street is absolutely crammed with people. Even removing all non-bus/tram/taxi traffic isn't enough to make it work. The tram and bus setup on Princes Street is the minimum required today for the two services to run. Where the tram stop reduces the road down to one lane each way, there are no bus stops. Where there are bus stops, other buses are able to drive on the tram tracks to bypass them. Making the pavements wider isn't possible without dropping one of the two, and it's going to be a lot easier to move some buses than it is to move some trams!

George Street will see a similar sort of transformation. The road capacity simply won't exist any more for the number of vehicles which currently cross the city centre.

In any case, the tram is expected to replace the bus for many journeys. Today, the tram network is still functionally an afterthought. Once the line opens to Newhaven, it will be possible and desirable to heavily change the bus network. Why would you want to run a bus which just duplicates the tram route? The plan to not only build Line 3 down to Cameron Toll and beyond, but to provide not-previously-considered links from the Bridges to the Leith Walk tram route and from the Bridges to Haymarket, means the tram will be able to provide direct links on all of the major corridors. At that point, all the bus network needs to do is fill in the gaps.

I've replied to your post in the Edinburgh Trams thread.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I've noticed that the Enviro400XLB's display "Easter Bush" while other vehicles such as Gemini 1's display just "Bush". Is there a reason for this?

 

[Scotrail314209]

Having taken Lothian for the first time in years today, I’m impressed.

Even their older buses are in a good condition both internally and externally, Unlike Glasgow who barely take care of their buses.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

I note that 1126, 1127 and 1128 are all in Livingstone now. Will this be for the Amazon contract?

 

[OmniCity999]

I note that 1126, 1127 and 1128 are all in Livingstone now. Will this be for the Amazon contract?

i believe 1126-1128 were repainted in anticipation for Contract work.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

When I saw them earlier today, they were in all white colour.

 

[OmniCity999]

When I saw them earlier today, they were in all white colour.

They were repainted over lockdown with anticipated contract work and the anticipated need to help other operations within Lothian.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

They do look smart in their white. Do you know if they have had, or will have if not, their luggage racks removed and more seats installed?

 

[Bus9120UK]

They do look smart in their white. Do you know if they have had, or will have if not, their luggage racks removed and more seats installed?

During service at Centrals on the 11/16/22 they still had Luggage racks. I am not sure about now but I doubt they have had them removed now.

 

[OmniCity999]

They do look smart in their white. Do you know if they have had, or will have if not, their luggage racks removed and more seats installed?

During service at Centrals on the 11/16/22 they still had Luggage racks. I am not sure about now but I doubt they have had them removed now.

Their keeping luggage racks for the time being.

 

[Bus9120UK]

My friend went up to Seafield and took some photos of the New MCV Evora's, they gave me permission to post those images here:
He also said that "It's got the high back coach seats at the front above the wheel but they're joined together to create like a wide like on the 7900's"
They currently have 70 plates

Another similar picture with different lighting (Credits to friend who took it, of course!):

 

[ScotRail158725]

Just went past seafield.. 3 evoras parked outside with presumably more inside.

How much room is actually inside Seafield? I’ve never seen any pictures of the inside. I assume it must be bigger that i expect for it to house some New buses aswell as buses getting branded/debranded for repaint/return from repaints, damage repaired buses etc..

My friend went up to Seafield and took some photos of the New MCV Evora's, they gave me permission to post those images here:
He also said that "It's got the high back coach seats at the front above the wheel but they're joined together to create like a wide like on the 7900's"
They currently have 70 plates
View attachment 85256View attachment 85257

They look great

 

[Jordan Adam]

My friend went up to Seafield and took some photos of the New MCV Evora's, they gave me permission to post those images here:
He also said that "It's got the high back coach seats at the front above the wheel but they're joined together to create like a wide like on the 7900's"
They currently have 70 plates

Putting the ugly looks of the eVoRa aside the rear end of 73 looks very badly put together, the panels don't align at all!

 

[OmniCity999]

How much room is actually inside Seafield? I’ve never seen any pictures of the inside. I assume it must be bigger that i expect for it to house some New buses aswell as buses getting branded/debranded for repaint/return from repaints, damage repaired buses etc..


They look great

Seafield is vast inside. It feels bigger than it actually is anyway.

It's very rare that you'll see photos inside because we dont want any photos of the interior shared. But there are photos out there.