Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[OmniCity999]

Hopefully not! They are still in what turned out to be the interim ECB livery not Fleet of the Future, I'm guessing current paint is about 4 years old?

Yes, I doubt very much theybwill get new seats, interior plastics and flooring like the Lothian examples though unfortunately.

 

[Graham Alexand]

when the seats covers get changed etc..

Oh right, thanks.

 

[scosutsut]

Yes, I doubt very much theybwill get new seats, interior plastics and flooring like the Lothian examples though unfortunately.

Yeah I agree, remembering your earlier comments re scaling back of such refurbs.

 

[CN04NRJ]

826-828 on ECB routes this morning.
826/7 on 104s and 828 on the school run 126

Passed one on Princes Street earlier on, looked like it had a very small 'on hire to' sign in the windscreen. Presumably their stay is short enough to justify not bothering changing the top line of the legal lettering vinyls?

 

[computerSaysNo]

Passed one on Princes Street earlier on, looked like it had a very small 'on hire to' sign in the windscreen. Presumably their stay is short enough to justify not bothering changing the top line of the legal lettering vinyls?

I managed to catch one out towards Wallyford earlier; they are very quiet at speed! Very smooth and no rattly panels, unlike some of the newer vehicles.
I'm also sure they sounded slightly different, even in Edinburgh between Princes Street and The Jewel; would regular running at speed do anything to affect how they sound? Or am I hearing things that aren't there?
Edit: Apologies, accidentally pressed "post" before I'd finished writing.

 

[OmniCity999]

I managed to catch one out towards Wallyford earlier; they are very quiet at speed! Very smooth and no rattly panels, unlike some of the newer vehicles.
I'm also sure they sounded slightly different, even in Edinburgh between Princes Street and The Jewel; would regular running at speed do anything to affect how they sound? Or am I hearing things that aren't there?
Edit: Apologies, accidentally pressed "post" before I'd finished writing.

Don't mind me... its about to get geeky...

Regular running at speed, coupled to road conditions, specifically those bumps in Wallyford and some of the country roads in East Lothian appear to have taken their toll on some aspects of East Coast stock.

Id put money on a direct correlation between bad road conditions and speed running and rattles, engine condition etc.

Got to remember the structure of the vehicle takes on a decent amount of beating the faster it goes and environmental factors such as wind. Buses are, by their nature a lightweight design. So things do tend to rattle and even come loose.

They only heavy part of a bus really is the lowest parts of the lower deck, everything else is rather thin and flimsy, so that vs wind isn't ideal! Panels are really just thin aluminium and the odd bit of fibreglass.

If It weren't for its size, you could pick up the entire front end of a Gemini 2 (the outer skin that is) in one hand.

Ideally motorway miles would be done by a coach, something a little more rugged built.

But the types of routes these vehicles run and where they goto aren't necessarily suited to the length or weight of a coach, not to mention the reduced capacity.

Still, the Eclipses and Gemini's East Coast buses have are preferable to say an Enviro 200/Enviro400 in terms of rugged build etc, but not by much.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I managed to catch one out towards Wallyford earlier; they are very quiet at speed! Very smooth and no rattly panels, unlike some of the newer vehicles.
I'm also sure they sounded slightly different, even in Edinburgh between Princes Street and The Jewel; would regular running at speed do anything to affect how they sound? Or am I hearing things that aren't there?
Edit: Apologies, accidentally pressed "post" before I'd finished writing.

The older ones seem better put together, I've only driven one of the 07s once and that was 827 on the 63 - I thought it was alot more sluggish and definitely sounded a bit louder than some of the newer ones.

I suppose over time all vehicles of a batch will diverge and develop different characteristics depending on the type of work they've done, which routes, different maintenance requirements and components changed at different times. One example being 926/7 - 927 has a very loud Voith box and accelerates/changes gear differently to 926, I'm no expert but it could be that it's got a gearbox out of a B7TL or maybe even Trident?

From my experience in Cardiff the type of work a bus is used on definitely has an impact on how it performs over time - out of the 19 bendy buses the first 5 had easy lives on the 6 route whilst the other 14 were thrashed within an inch of their lives day in day out on very poor roads on the 17/18 which are (or were before covid) a very frequent, busy and intensive service. The first 5 were pleasant to drive by the time I left but the rest were a miserable experience and absolutely riddled with persistent defects.

I assume the same type of comparison could be made for the ECB ex Airlink B9s and city B9s which in theory have an easier life?

 

[Jordanscot]

I’ve just been told on good authority that the MCV’s ARE entering service in the first few weeks of January with the drivers being told their type training will happen immediately after the new year.
Can anyone confirm that these are indeed going to Longstone for the service 30? As my local route I’m very much hoping so - capacity still seems an issue at times on this route even with the buses running every 7/8 minutes during the day.
I can’t see another single deck service from any garage being as busy as the 30 so it makes sense.
With the 7900h’s being prone to battery degradation being out of use I wonder if we will see single deck routes from other garages using these vehicles instead of their current upgrade to double deckers.

 

[BobScott]

I’ve just been told on good authority that the MCV’s ARE entering service in the first few weeks of January with the drivers being told their type training will happen immediately after the new year.
Can anyone confirm that these are indeed going to Longstone for the service 30? As my local route I’m very much hoping so - capacity still seems an issue at times on this route even with the buses running every 7/8 minutes during the day.
I can’t see another single deck service from any garage being as busy as the 30 so it makes sense.
With the 7900h’s being prone to battery degradation being out of use I wonder if we will see single deck routes from other garages using these vehicles instead of their current upgrade to double deckers.

Type training starts on 4 January and buses are expected in service a week later. For all normal single deck duties.

 

[Jordanscot]

Type training starts on 4 January and buses are expected in service a week later. For all normal single deck duties.

Thanks...

when you say for all normal single deck duties, does this mean there will be MCV’s at all garages? Or am I misunderstanding

 

[computerSaysNo]

Thanks...

when you say for all normal single deck duties, does this mean there will be MCV’s at all garages? Or am I misunderstanding

It does read like that, although I imagine they meant all single deck duties at Longstone (so 2, 30, 36, 45(?)).

 

[Gareth1980]

It does read like that, although I imagine they meant all single deck duties at Longstone (so 2, 30, 36, 45(?)).

45 is Marine?

 

[BobScott]

It does read like that, although I imagine they meant all single deck duties at Longstone (so 2, 30, 36, 45(?)).

Mainly to Longstone for all sd service, a few later to Central for Service 1, then Marine for when s48 goes back to single deck.

 

[CN04NRJ]

It does read like that, although I imagine they meant all single deck duties at Longstone (so 2, 30, 36, 45(?)).

Longstone; 2, 30, 36, 38
Central; 1, 12, 24
Marine; 42, 45, 48

With so many buses being needed for the 30 (27 currently) I'd assume the 30 would be fully MCV? The 12, 36, 38, 42 and 45 could easily cope with 7900s and it looks near certain the current service levels/arrangements will be in place until March.

 

[computerSaysNo]

45 is Marine?

Apologies, I assumed the 45 was currently being run from Longstone as it's mainly using the Ex Skylink deckers.

 

[Gareth1980]

Apologies, I assumed the 45 was currently being run from Longstone as it's mainly using the Ex Skylink deckers.

Maybe you are right, and I am wrong!

 

[computerSaysNo]

Maybe you are right, and I am wrong!

I'm not 100% sure that every journey is Longstone though, as there was a Zoo B5 on it yesterday and all the Zoo B5s are at Marine.

 

[Lothiangem22]

Definitely all from marine. The 400’s skylinks are currently based there with the 500’s at longstone for skylink duties.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I'm not 100% sure that every journey is Longstone though, as there was a Zoo B5 on it yesterday and all the Zoo B5s are at Marine.

There are no journeys on the 45 run from Longstone. I (think?) that before the 45 went back to a full service there was a Longstone decker duty that did a morning (and possibly afternoon?) dupe around school time.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

There are no journeys on the 45 run from Longstone. I (think?) that before the 45 went back to a full service there was a Longstone decker duty that did a morning (and possibly afternoon?) dupe around school time.

was there not one short run journey from Riccarton that ran to the Tron in the late evenings? Think it was a 25/X25 that turned into a 45

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

There are no journeys on the 45 run from Longstone. I (think?) that before the 45 went back to a full service there was a Longstone decker duty that did a morning (and possibly afternoon?) dupe around school time.

I’m sure that journey was run from Marine. It used to arrive at QMU around 9.30-10am and then head light back to the depot, at the same time a single would come from Marine (at one point this single deck was being run from Central, but not the double deck) and take its place for the remainder of service.

The only Longstone operated journey IIRC is the Tron ex X25 one mentioned by TheEastCoaster, it’s been that long but did this journey still run up until March? That bus used to do Light Longstone to Waterloo Place, X25 to Riccarton, 25 to Waverley and then another X25 back to Riccarton and then finish with the 45 to Tron.

Speaking of strange workings, I notice the 30 has two buses that come off other routes, one off a 38 (Longstone to RIE then light RIE to Niddrie) and the other which does a Broughton High School journey extra on the 19 (Granton to West End) before picking up a 30 on Lothian Road. Every time I’ve seen that 19 journey it’s been really busy (well COVID limits busy if you get what I mean), that particular service used to always be a Double Deck and run to King’s Road - defo no point in running it beyond the city atmo. I find it odd that it’s running with a single deck when it used to be a Double, especially given the safe limit advice in place.

 

[Edirim]

There is also a short working 41 that runs onto a 30 at West End bound for Clovenstone in the Am peak.

 

[computerSaysNo]

The only Longstone operated journey IIRC is the Tron ex X25 one mentioned by TheEastCoaster, it’s been that long but did this journey still run up until March? That bus used to do Light Longstone to Waterloo Place, X25 to Riccarton, 25 to Waverley and then another X25 back to Riccarton and then finish with the 45 to Tron.

Does anyone actually know where Tron is? If you search for it on Google Maps it takes to you a pub on South Bridge!

 

[OmniCity999]

Does anyone actually know where Tron is? If you search for it on Google Maps it takes to you a pub on South Bridge!

That is the location i believe. The bus stop just before it, i believe theres a historical meaning to buses terminating and changing there.

its a relatively well known landmark in Edinburgh.

i think @DunsBus might have discussed it before?

 

[CN04NRJ]

Speaking of strange workings, I notice the 30 has two buses that come off other routes, one off a 38 (Longstone to RIE then light RIE to Niddrie) and the other which does a Broughton High School journey extra on the 19 (Granton to West End) before picking up a 30 on Lothian Road. Every time I’ve seen that 19 journey it’s been really busy (well COVID limits busy if you get what I mean), that particular service used to always be a Double Deck and run to King’s Road - defo no point in running it beyond the city atmo. I find it odd that it’s running with a single deck when it used to be a Double, especially given the safe limit advice in place.

There's 4 at the moment, 4 30 boards start off on part routes 19,21,41 and 38.

There's some slight changes in January but nothing official been published yet so I won't say anything other than Longstone single decks won't be doing the part route 41 or 19 from the 10th.

 

[DunsBus]

That is the location i believe. The bus stop just before it, i believe theres a historical meaning to buses terminating and changing there.

its a relatively well known landmark in Edinburgh.

i think @DunsBus might have discussed it before?

The Tron is the (former) church at the High Street/South Bridge junction.

 

[OmniCity999]

The Tron is the (former) church at the High Street/South Bridge junction.

Just as i thought. Cheers!

 

[computerSaysNo]

That is the location i believe. The bus stop just before it, i believe theres a historical meaning to buses terminating and changing there.

its a relatively well known landmark in Edinburgh.

i think @DunsBus might have discussed it before?

The Tron is the (former) church at the High Street/South Bridge junction.

Thanks both. Why do they terminate there rather than at Elm Row or King's Road?

 

[Siemens Trains]

That is the location i believe. The bus stop just before it, i believe theres a historical meaning to buses terminating and changing there.

its a relatively well known landmark in Edinburgh.

i think @DunsBus might have discussed it before?

I used to see Tron deployed quite often as a destination. Perhaps it's less common these days because routes can't run along the High Street where part routes may have terminated at the junction with the Bridges then run light somewhere else. I suppose destinations like Surgeons' Hall or Leith Street/Elm Row cover most possibilities now but Tron might remain relevant to the 35 and 45.

 

[OmniCity999]

Thanks both. Why do they terminate there rather than at Elm Row or King's Road?

Generally services will terminate there and another service will start there, utilising the same bus - or even creating a through service.

Very handy for some folks, even handier for the operator!

I used to commute on a 44 that when it got to Scot Monument, transformed into a 25 and continued to Heriot Watt, this is a while ago mind.

During normal times, this is quite a common thing. Usually, but not always mentioned in the timetable.

A couple years ago i think there was an X26 or two that turned into a 22, which i understand was handy.

Theres a Christmas service that used to run as a 3 to Tron and turn into a 22, creating handy links.

Theres too many to post anyway! the 30 seems to be a current regular.