Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[TheEastCoaster]

ECB (minus X7) and LCB were available yesterday
Lothian today!

That’s surprising! would of thought they would of had all of them released together!

Noticed in the final journeys of the 124 and 140 they are much later! the 124 departing 13 minutes later from Fountainbridge and the 140 departing Penicuik after Midnight now

 

[Porty]

That’s surprising! would of thought they would of had all of them released together!

Noticed in the final journeys of the 124 and 140 they are much later! the 124 departing 13 minutes later from Fountainbridge and the 140 departing Penicuik after Midnight now

Where can you find the timetables? I've had a look round the website and only seem to be able to see the current times.

 

[CraigLockhart]

Where can you find the timetables? I've had a look round the website and only seem to be able to see the current times.

If you go into the service changes article and click on the individual routes you can download each timetable there.

 

[stevenedin]

All of them are available now when I checked.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I honestly would of had the last 400 from the Airport terminate at Royal Infirmary rather than Hyvots Bank, that way folk can connect to the last 48 direct to Niddrie/Fort Kinnaird a few minutes later, though that’s just me!

 

[mb88]

Last bus from Broxburn to Livingston now 20:55 instead of 22:30 as it is currently. That’ll be popular with the load of people who finish their shifts at East Mains Industrial Estate at 22:00 and get the last 276. Service reduced from 4 to 2 buses an hour, with the 276 going all round the houses instead of the more direct route which was proving popular. May as well direct people towards the FirstBus 600. Never mind though cos you can now get a bus from Edinburgh to Deans North at 03:30 on a Saturday and Sunday morning.

 

[stevenedin]

There is still the X24 and X25 going from Broxburn to Livingston late.

 

[mb88]

There is still the X24 and X25 going from Broxburn to Livingston late.

I’m talking about Lothian Country services.

 

[Auld reekie]

Does anyone know how much is paid by Lothian Buses to use the Edinburgh Airport as a destination?

 

[stevenedin]

I’m talking about Lothian Country services.

Yeah but the point was that there is still buses which get you there.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

It appears that the 44 will go fully back to Longstone on Saturday's and Sunday's - 4 buses on a Saturday and Sunday have been operating from Central since November.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I’ve had a look through the new timetables and for me I don’t think there’s going to be too much movement of vehicles.

195-196 returning to service at ECB seems a fairly obvious one and I would be very surprised if this didn’t happen. Wouldn’t expect much else here for now.

Central I don’t think will require any extra vehicles. 22’s withdrawal from Leith and frequency reduction on the remaining section should pretty much make up the numbers for the extra buses on the 11 and 16. If the 1 was to fully revert back to single decks (possibly gaining 16-18) then this could allow 927, 1141-1142 to move to Marine as well, there’s also some of 1014-1018 that could be looked at too. If I’m honest not so sure they’ll move though. It’s difficult to say what will happen here as I’m pretty sure 927, 1141-1142 are covering for the remaining 11 plate B9TL’s that are being repainted. Ultimately I don’t think Central will gain/lose anything.

The increase of frequency to the 26 should mean there are less of 466-495 on other routes now too - it will still happen though, just probably less often. I suspect what might happen here is the 45 could revert back to single deck all the time (so a few extra 7900’s to Marine, maybe 36-37?) and factor in what I suggested above about Central’s double decks then that should free up enough double decks for the 26. I do think what I suggested about the 45 could happen, but not the extra double decks.

So from the 7900’s that then leaves 16-35, of which 10 of them are in use at Longstone - 37 is as well but let’s assume that’s been moved to Marine, so 11 in total in use at Longstone.

Longstone would probably still only need 11 as a number of these 7900’s are often not out. That would then leave 9 for Central to possibly use on the 1 and 24 if a decision is ever made to revert that back to single decks. So I would expect a minimum of 11 7900’s to remain in use at Longstone, possibly more with the remainder staying VOR.

Should also say if the 2 was to revert fully to single deck as well and all the others have too then this is where 171-175, 186-190 will be needed again. Worth pointing out I can’t see where 201-215 would go at the minute, not enough increases from what I can see for them to be used.


In a practical sense it’s tricky to say what routes (if any) will revert back to single decks. But I would expect some vehicles movements for these changes, just not a lot.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Last bus from Broxburn to Livingston now 20:55 instead of 22:30 as it is currently. That’ll be popular with the load of people who finish their shifts at East Mains Industrial Estate at 22:00 and get the last 276. Service reduced from 4 to 2 buses an hour, with the 276 going all round the houses instead of the more direct route which was proving popular. May as well direct people towards the FirstBus 600. Never mind though cos you can now get a bus from Edinburgh to Deans North at 03:30 on a Saturday and Sunday morning.

this is so frustrating. Removing essential bus journeys just strands people and enforces car dependency for many people who used to have a bus.

 

[Jordan Adam]

this is so frustrating. Removing essential bus journeys just strands people and enforces car dependency for many people who used to have a bus.

It's not really essential since it's already covered by another operator.

I think the point is more that by Lothian not offering a service at those times anymore it'll force a lot of workers to commute by alternative means, either by car or by First. This will have a knock-on impact across the network since daily commuters typically buy weekly or monthly passes.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

It's not really essential since it's already covered by another operator.

I think the point is more that by Lothian not offering a service at those times anymore it'll force a lot of workers to commute by alternative means, either by car or by First. This will have a knock-on impact across the network since daily commuters typically buy weekly or monthly passes.

I think the big thing for me is look how much the other routes have been changed in comparison to the 275/276. Yes admittedly the X27 was changed to go to Whitburn and serve Calderwood while the 43 was extended into the new estate in Scotstoun and the X18 was also extended to Whitburn as well. These though were fairly good and in some cases obvious changes, and there’s probably more.

The 275 has been changed time and time again, there’s been two different 281’s, the 276 has been tweaked, the X17 didn’t work, the 287 lasted months and not to forget, the X38 as well.

Specifically though the 275 has been changed time and time again, and after 4 years it’s now going completely. LC have tried probably too hard to try and get something to work. For me they would be better just running what works, and not bothering with what doesn’t. The fact it’s going doesn’t surprise me and if I’m honest, the 276 will be next as this new route is over complicated and way too slow. No doubt it’ll be changed to do other things in the future before it too then gets withdrawn.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I think the big thing for me is look how much the other routes have been changed in comparison to the 275/276. Yes admittedly the X27 was changed to go to Whitburn and serve Calderwood while the 43 was extended into the new estate in Scotstoun and the X18 was also extended to Whitburn as well. These though were fairly good and in some cases obvious changes, and there’s probably more.

The 275 has been changed time and time again, there’s been two different 281’s, the 276 has been tweaked, the X17 didn’t work, the 287 lasted months and not to forget, the X38 as well.

Specifically though the 275 has been changed time and time again, and after 4 years it’s now going completely. LC have tried probably too hard to try and get something to work. For me they would be better just running what works, and not bothering with what doesn’t. The fact it’s going doesn’t surprise me and if I’m honest, the 276 will be next as this new route is over complicated and way too slow. No doubt it’ll be changed to do other things in the future before it too then gets withdrawn.

I agree, i don't see this new 276 variation lasting long either, history will just repeat itself yet again. It's as if they're just trying everything until they find something that works. The other problem this causes of course is that it makes it near impossible for those routes to become established. I do wonder if the 275 (when it went to the Gyle Centre) would've done better had it went via Ingliston P&R and through ticketing was offered with the tram and/or 200/300/400.

I think with the X38 it's clear to see what went wrong. The route offered nothing unique, was on a lower frequency than it's main competitor and went along a corridor where demand is quite limited anyway. I could never understand the set up with the X18 & EX1, no sane thinking company would offer multiple services in direct competition with each other like that. With the EX1 you were essentially just paying more to sit on a coach and avoid Broxburn, perhaps the most laughable part being the fact that certain X18 journeys in the morning peak were actually faster than the equivalent EX1!

 

[scotrail158713]

I was having a look at the new timetables and making the 113 limited stop - and maybe the 124 as well although I've not checked that yet - knocks off a whole 2 minutes from journeys from East Lothian into Edinburgh. It's something that I thought was maybe a good idea initially however having seen that it doesn't really seem worth it anymore.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I was having a look at the new timetables and making the 113 limited stop - and maybe the 124 as well although I've not checked that yet - knocks off a whole 2 minutes from journeys from East Lothian into Edinburgh. It's something that I thought was maybe a good idea initially however having seen that it doesn't really seem worth it anymore.

Looking at the current timetable, the 124 takes 1 hour 46 minutes between Edinburgh City Centre & North Berwick terminus (12:00 Weekday). Now checking the new schedules, it also knocks off only 2 minutes too at 1 hour 44 minutes. I've also checked the X5 and that'll take about 1 hour and 22 minutes.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I was having a look at the new timetables and making the 113 limited stop - and maybe the 124 as well although I've not checked that yet - knocks off a whole 2 minutes from journeys from East Lothian into Edinburgh. It's something that I thought was maybe a good idea initially however having seen that it doesn't really seem worth it anymore.

That really does make this look totally pointless. It may be they are factoring in longer journey times if it was all stops due to traffic but apart from that slight possibility I’m really struggling to see the point in this. If you look at the stops it’s going to miss out on the limited stop bit it’s not likely that loads would get on/off anyway.

I can see the 113 and 124 lasting like this for one round of changes and then they’ll revert to all stops again, this simply won’t work.

Another negative point I’ve thought of as a result of the 124 serving Milton Road instead is that the links to Lothian Road from Portobello/Eastfield have gone as well, the 45 sort of does it but look at the traffic levels at the minute. This is something that again I think may be revisited down the line.

 

[Eyersey468]

That's going to cause lothianbuses a headache next time they want some new standard size deckers, they are I would have said highly unlikely to move to the full ADL product given their fleet as stands and also as I understand it they've been less than impressed with the ADL drivetrain etc in the past

I doubt Lothian will be buying many more new diesel buses as the industry moves to electric or hydrogen buses

 

[Lothianbus703]

When Lothian do special event shuttles (97/98) do they get extra drivers to work that day or how does it work?

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I doubt Lothian will be buying many more new diesel buses as the industry moves to electric or hydrogen buses

Who’s pushing the industry that way, politicians or the businessman?

Yet a rather lacklustre approach to pushing heavily on motorists to change..

 

[eh1]

Longstone would probably still only need 11 as a number of these 7900’s are often not out. That would then leave 9 for Central to possibly use on the 1 and 24 if a decision is ever made to revert that back to single decks.

Rumour is that the 24 will become a "decker" route and the 2 could be moving garage again, which would give enough capacity to run the 1 and 12s on single deck only?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Double decks on the 24 certainly seems to have boosted its usage. I picked one up at the foot of pennywell road the other day and it was actually quite well loaded throughout the time I spent on it. I wonder if it's got anything to do with the fact that the seats on the double deck are more comfortable than those on the the dreaded 7900

 

[Blindtraveler]

And Lothian known for not being particularly impressed with the electric or hybrid options that they have taken in the past. Maybe the the model featured above is is better and they will perhaps get a demonstrator for it at some stage. I can also see more second-hand purchases coming to the fleet, probably x London b 5TL l50 such were to become surplus

 

[Snow1964]

That's going to cause lothianbuses a headache next time they want some new standard size deckers, they are I would have said highly unlikely to move to the full ADL product given their fleet as stands and also as I understand it they've been less than impressed with the ADL drivetrain etc in the past

I thought Lothian wanting to renew their older diesel fleet before the type were discontinued was part of the reason for the large order that has just been delivered.

Could be another 3 years before they need more deckers, and what is available will have moved on by then.

 

[Volvodart]

The ones that were converted to Euro 6 emissions are supposed to be used for 5 years per the terms of the grant award (unless replaced by zero emission buses).

 

[Blindtraveler]

I still predict further deckers as I say possibly second-hand b5 coming into the fleet in the next couple of years as the remaining ones that are not euro 6 modified will have to go and as some still remain this will doubtless happen


These can quite easily be some further xlb possibly for the airport cascading the existing fleet there on to city or country work or creating a cascade for said purposes

Perhaps if the skylink network continues to grow in terms of passenger numbers these two will warrant larger vehicles and and again this could be an answer. But we're probably going off topic

 

[cammyeaston]

Double decks on the 24 certainly seems to have boosted its usage. I picked one up at the foot of pennywell road the other day and it was actually quite well loaded throughout the time I spent on it. I wonder if it's got anything to do with the fact that the seats on the double deck are more comfortable than those on the the dreaded 7900

I highly doubt it. Most "normals" take a bus based on the fact that they need to go somewhere. The comfiness of the seat is generally not a factor to them unless it's a long distance journey.

 

[stevenedin]

It could have an impact as people may take the bus instead of driving but if the buses are known to be uncomfortable then it may make people decide to just use their car if they drive.