Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Blindtraveler]

Excellent solution as long as particular roots or services stuck to a specific loading point from the point of view again of accessibility

 

[Bus9120UK]

Repaint wise, the 66 plates are almost finished with just 457 and 463 to go. East Coast Buses has no more buses out in the old livery as of today as 945 is at Seafield for repaint preparation at last. It's currently Longstone 7900s and Skylink buses gaining new AVLs. 652 has turned up at Ferrymill for repair joining 83, 415, 446 and 1052.

 

[scosutsut]

I’ve said this previously, but I’ve thought for a long time that they should build some simple drive through bus stances on top of the Waverley Centre.

But where would people purchase overpriced cider and then freeze to death drinking it?

East Coast Buses has no more buses out in the old livery as of today as 945 is at Seafield for repaint preparation at last.

That's been a painfully long period, I appreciate due to various factors but will be good to see the fleet uniform again. The new colours are vastly superior in my opinion.

 

[stevenedin]

But where would people purchase overpriced cider and then freeze to death drinking it?


That's been a painfully long period, I appreciate due to various factors but will be good to see the fleet uniform again. The new colours are vastly superior in my opinion.

It would be good to see 932-935 painted into the new colours as well.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Repaint wise, the 66 plates are almost finished with just 457 and 463 to go. East Coast Buses has no more buses out in the old livery as of today as 945 is at Seafield for repaint preparation at last. It's currently Longstone 7900s and Skylink buses gaining new AVLs. 652 has turned up at Ferrymill for repair joining 83, 415, 446 and 1052.

Is 616 back yet? Been off the road since April/May time not sure what happened with it
I see 1052 was with ECB long before having an accident

 

[Bus9120UK]

Is 616 back yet? Been off the road since April/May time not sure what happened with it
I see 1052 was with ECB long before having an accident

It's still at Seafield sat with unpainted replacement panels. I believe it had an accident with 563 which was also repaired, though that only took a few weeks.

83 is returning just now.

 

[ScotRail158725]

It's still at Seafield sat with unpainted replacement panels. I believe it had an accident with 563 which was also repaired, though that only took a few weeks.

83 is returning just now.

Aw right enough forgot 616 was the one that hit 563. 563 was only out 2 week, surprised 616 has took 6 months in comparison though to fix.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

It would be good to see 932-935 painted into the new colours as well.

933 had its nearside fleet number and it looked prepped for service at Seafield, so it does look unlikely that 933 will at this time, though once repaints settle I would assume they would bring a cover bus to Lothian Country for it to be repainted.

 

[Siemens Trains]

In many German cities (and in Austria as well) in city centres and busy locations or transfer points, they have what are called "Doppelhaltesstelle" (double stops) which are identified by 'HH' signs rather than the usual 'H' sign. These stops allow two loading points at one stop.

Something like that might be a possible answer

Interesting. How does the passenger queuing system match the vehicle queuing? Do they have two separate passenger queues for the two possible bus routes and how do people know which service is going to arrive first? Presumably the bus arriving second needs to be positioned behind the first one and has to pick up every possible passenger but still can't leave until the first one departs.
Maybe just lack of imagination on my part, but I don't see this being practical in cramped locations of Princes Street such as outside the NB (North British).

 

[LiviCrazy]

Interesting. How does the passenger queuing system match the vehicle queuing? Do they have two separate passenger queues for the two possible bus routes and how do people know which service is going to arrive first? Presumably the bus arriving second needs to be positioned behind the first one and has to pick up every possible passenger but still can't leave until the first one departs.
Maybe just lack of imagination on my part, but I don't see this being practical in cramped locations of Princes Street such as outside the NB (North British).

Can’t say from a perspective of Germany, but in the U.K., Edinburgh, in my experience, is almost unique in its obsession of queueing at bus stops. Most places I’ve caught buses, especially with multiple buses at a stop, people just congregate and somebody hails the bus when they see it arriving and then there is a general system of people who were at the stop first board first. Again, in my experience, most place I’ve been buses only stop if hailed or someone rings the bell, it’s one of the things that makes Lothian Buses so slow.

On another note, does anyone think Lothian Country will ever look at their timetables? They seem to suffer the same problems the old First 27/28 did and just run so so late all the time. Looking at trackers today for example, almost every journey on the X27/X28 is late, usually by about 15-20mins, they just don’t seem to have enough contingency built into the route to make time back. As I’ve noted before, they’ve got them running pretty much the same timetable as when they first started despite the increase in passenger numbers and traffic, Calderwood itself can take 10-15mins to get through in the morning.

 

[muffy]

On another note, does anyone think Lothian Country will ever look at their timetables? They seem to suffer the same problems the old First 27/28 did and just run so so late all the time. Looking at trackers today for example, almost every journey on the X27/X28 is late, usually by about 15-20mins, they just don’t seem to have enough contingency built into the route to make time back. As I’ve noted before, they’ve got them running pretty much the same timetable as when they first started despite the increase in passenger numbers and traffic, Calderwood itself can take 10-15mins to get through in the morning.

X27/X40 quite often lose up to 10 minutes at the temporary traffic lights at Wilkieson.

 

[overthewater]

Can’t say from a perspective of Germany, but in the U.K., Edinburgh, in my experience, is almost unique in its obsession of queueing at bus stops. Most places I’ve caught buses, especially with multiple buses at a stop, people just congregate and somebody hails the bus when they see it arriving and then there is a general system of people who were at the stop first board first. Again, in my experience, most place I’ve been buses only stop if hailed or someone rings the bell, it’s one of the things that makes Lothian Buses so slow.

On another note, does anyone think Lothian Country will ever look at their timetables? They seem to suffer the same problems the old First 27/28 did and just run so so late all the time. Looking at trackers today for example, almost every journey on the X27/X28 is late, usually by about 15-20mins, they just don’t seem to have enough contingency built into the route to make time back. As I’ve noted before, they’ve got them running pretty much the same timetable as when they first started despite the increase in passenger numbers and traffic, Calderwood itself can take 10-15mins to get through in the morning.

There was a reason why First got rid of the X27/X28 routes in the first place. Lothian has fallen in to the same trap, Surly there isn't much demand for Bathgate - East Calder?

 

[oldman]

Do they have two separate passenger queues for the two possible bus routes and how do people know which service is going to arrive first?

It is a bit of a free-for-all. The trick is to stand in the middle of the double stopping space, then move left or right as you see your tram coming. Real-time departure information helps. With trams there are multiple doors so you don't have far to go whether your tram is first or second. Not so easy for the visually-impaired of course.

 

[ScotRail158725]

There was a reason why First got rid of the X27/X28 routes in the first place. Lothian has fallen in to the same trap, Surly there isn't much demand for Bathgate - East Calder?

Probably not but thats nitpicking at its peak

On another note, does anyone think Lothian Country will ever look at their timetables? They seem to suffer the same problems the old First 27/28 did and just run so so late all the time. Looking at trackers today for example, almost every journey on the X27/X28 is late, usually by about 15-20mins, they just don’t seem to have enough contingency built into the route to make time back. As I’ve noted before, they’ve got them running pretty much the same timetable as when they first started despite the increase in passenger numbers and traffic, Calderwood itself can take 10-15mins to get through in the morning.

They run late yes but bring into question the lights at Wilkieston that can delay buses for 10 minutes+ Theres a lot of turnaround times aswell and this gets most buses back on time

 

[Darklord8899]

Interesting. How does the passenger queuing system match the vehicle queuing? Do they have two separate passenger queues for the two possible bus routes and how do people know which service is going to arrive first? Presumably the bus arriving second needs to be positioned behind the first one and has to pick up every possible passenger but still can't leave until the first one departs.
Maybe just lack of imagination on my part, but I don't see this being practical in cramped locations of Princes Street such as outside the NB (North British).

Germans don't tend to queue like we do, but tend to spread out along the stop (or "platform" of the stopping area) and away from the edge unless their bus is due/approaching. Also, due to trackers people know which bus is coming first which is second, organising themselves to front or back of stop - also people tend to step forward to pavement edge if it's their bus and everyone else tend to step back.

I guess, now thinking about it, most of this behaviour stems from tram use and often buses use tram stops in cities where having tram stops AND bus stops wouldn't be practical.

Some double stops have the main stop indicator and arrivals board/tracker at the head of the stop and a smaller indicator flag as to where the front of the second vehicle will stop - but I feel that is only needed where there are vastly different vehicle lengths (German cities using a far greater number of articulated buses, for example, or where single, two car or three car trams are useing the same stops)

 

[LiviCrazy]

Probably not but thats nitpicking at its peak

They run late yes but bring into question the lights at Wilkieston that can delay buses for 10 minutes+ Theres a lot of turnaround times aswell and this gets most buses back on time

From observation it’s the X28 that runs later, frequently up to 30mins.

In the last few months of catching McGills X22, with full loads in the evening peak, I was never more than about 2-3 mins late (obviously except when it was cancelled), the X27/X28 are often 15mins late by the time they get to Sighthill. I’ve said for a long time West Approach Road is actually slower at peak times particularly due to the amount of car traffic on Lothian Road.

Take a look at BusTimes and see how many are on time, and you’ll see what I mean. I’ve started driving as I just can’t rely on them at all.

 

[Darklord8899]

On another note, does anyone think Lothian Country will ever look at their timetables? They seem to suffer the same problems the old First 27/28 did and just run so so late all the time. Looking at trackers today for example, almost every journey on the X27/X28 is late, usually by about 15-20mins, they just don’t seem to have enough contingency built into the route to make time back. As I’ve noted before, they’ve got them running pretty much the same timetable as when they first started despite the increase in passenger numbers and traffic, Calderwood itself can take 10-15mins to get through in the morning.

I dare say only when the have an abundance of vehicles and drivers to drive them....

Right now they need to balance of existing services and trying to plug holes left by McGills withdrawing services.

Not saying it is an ideal situation, but it is where we are at...

From observation it’s the X28 that runs later, frequently up to 30mins.

In the last few months of catching McGills X22, with full loads in the evening peak, I was never more than about 2-3 mins late (obviously except when it was cancelled), the X27/X28 are often 15mins late by the time they get to Sighthill. I’ve said for a long time West Approach Road is actually slower at peak times particularly due to the amount of car traffic on Lothian Road.

Take a look at BusTimes and see how many are on time, and you’ll see what I mean. I’ve started driving as I just can’t rely on them at all.

Yes, The West Approach Road can definitely be hit or miss or more accurately Westfield Rd and Balgreen Road trying to get back on to Calder Road to head West.
Have seen a 30 take longer to get from Westfield/Sainsbury's to the lights at Balgreen, than it took from Lothian Road to Sainsbury's

Also as X27's and X28's tend to swap numbers at either end, if there is an issue at say Calderwood (for an example) that is then going to impact the X28 that bus then goes on to run... not great

 

[stevenedin]

Not a good start for the 72. Only 1 bus in the whole route. Lots of people left waiting at Livingston Centre. If they really want to make this work they have to be reliable. That’s a 2 hour gap since the last one.

EDIT - It finally turned up. It was 842. The bus is almost full so it’s good to see people using the new route.

Witnessed 2 X40s today as well and they were both quite busy. Nice to see people using the buses.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Not a good start for the 72. Only 1 bus in the whole route. Lots of people left waiting at Livingston Centre. If they really want to make this work they have to be reliable. That’s a 2 hour gap since the last one.


It finally turned up. It was 842.

Witnessed 2 X40s today as well and they were both quite busy. Nice to see people using the buses.

How did I guess it'd be 842. That's has tracking issues since it first started back at LC, didn't track properly at all some days and barely worked on the NHS Shuttle. Some days it tracks normally though..

 

[ScotRail158725]

Not a good start for the 72. Only 1 bus in the whole route. Lots of people left waiting at Livingston Centre. If they really want to make this work they have to be reliable. That’s a 2 hour gap since the last one.

EDIT - It finally turned up. It was 842. The bus is almost full so it’s good to see people using the new route.

Witnessed 2 X40s today as well and they were both quite busy. Nice to see people using the buses.

The 72 i had ay the start of the week was around half an hour late. The roadworks at Winchburgh and general traffic seem to hamper it when it runs into any congestion

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Witnessed 2 X40s today as well and they were both quite busy. Nice to see people using the buses.

The X40 definately seems to be a hit

 

[roadierway77]

I've noticed the 400EVs have started showing up on the 10 again. I believe it's been a couple of years since they were a regular allocation for that service?

 

[stevenedin]

How did I guess it'd be 842. That's has tracking issues since it first started back at LC, didn't track properly at all some days and barely worked on the NHS Shuttle. Some days it tracks normally though..

I’m glad it turned up as I thought that they were going to leave all of those people stranded which isn’t good if trying to attract passengers. They should really fix the tracker as the general public may not know that one bus has tracker issues and lose faith in the new service.

The 72 i had ay the start of the week was around half an hour late. The roadworks at Winchburgh and general traffic seem to hamper it when it runs into any congestion


The X40 definately seems to be a hit

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of roadworks around in West Lothian and Edinburgh right now on both routes.

There’s still a decent number of people using the 72 so far considering it has just started a few weeks ago.

The X40 I noticed quite busy from Royal Infirmary and Gilmerton but no one got on at Westside Plaza or anywhere else in Wester Hailes. Also at Calder Road it wasn’t busy either on the route I was on. I overheard 2 people talking about the “wee” buses that they used to have leaking windows and something about the seats. I think they were meaning Horsburgh so the public do notice.

I’m looking forward to the new changes in December.

I've noticed the 400EVs have started showing up on the 10 again. I believe it's been a couple of years since they were a regular allocation for that service?

I haven’t seen them on the route since 2021.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I've noticed the 400EVs have started showing up on the 10 again. I believe it's been a couple of years since they were a regular allocation for that service?

Too small for the 23, the 24, 8/9s so here we are full circle again

 

[CraigLockhart]

I've noticed the 400EVs have started showing up on the 10 again. I believe it's been a couple of years since they were a regular allocation for that service?

Had the joy of sitting on two yesterday on the 10. It was warmer outside. Do they turn the heating down to save on range when it's cold.

 

[bobdoe]

The X40 I noticed quite busy from Royal Infirmary and Gilmerton but no one got on at Westside Plaza or anywhere else in Wester Hailes. Also at Calder Road it wasn’t busy either on the route I was on. I overheard 2 people talking about the “wee” buses that they used to have leaking windows and something about the seats. I think they were meaning Horsburgh so the public do notice.

Calder Road after Bankhead Roundabout doesn't pick up many passengers often even with the X27/28.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Had the joy of sitting on two yesterday on the 10. It was warmer outside. Do they turn the heating down to save on range when it's cold.

No, power saving features are automatically enabled below 20% charge (reduced power to the drivetrain) but i've never driven one below that so i'm not sure if it affects heating.

 

[jb66]

Noticed the 72 15mins late yesterday in wincbhurgh heading to Livingston, bottom deck looked busy

 

[stevenedin]

Noticed the 72 15mins late yesterday in wincbhurgh heading to Livingston, bottom deck looked busy

It was also 15 mins late today as well and had no layover time. Hopefully when the route is extended it will help but I can see it becoming unreliable coming all the way from Fauldhouse.

 

[Bus9120UK]

It was also 15 mins late today as well and had no layover time. Hopefully when the route is extended it will help but I can see it becoming unreliable coming all the way from Fauldhouse.

The 72 will have a 19 minute layover at Kirkliston and 22 minute layover at Fauldhouse which seems decent.

 

[overthewater]

The X40 I noticed quite busy from Royal Infirmary and Gilmerton but no one got on at Westside Plaza or anywhere else in Wester Hailes. Also at Calder Road it wasn’t busy either on the route I was on. I overheard 2 people talking about the “wee” buses that they used to have leaking windows and something about the seats. I think they were meaning Horsburgh so the public do notice.

When I tried the service, it did pick up passengers around Wester hailes. It will take a while for everyone to know about it.