Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Resuwen]

From country to ECB? Or something else?

 

[stevenedin]

844 is now at Marine.

931 and 933 have now been withdrawn from Lothian Country and 935 is at Longstone.

I wonder if the plan is to use these buses on the 106 and X4 services.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

934 is getting a new engine, 935 and 936 recently got new engines too. East Coast Buses has had a PVR increase with the upcoming changes, X6 still requiring extra deckers. Standardisation of Dunbar fleet to commence.

 

[Resuwen]

What are we going to see based at Dunbar then?

 

[ScotRail158725]

What are we going to see based at Dunbar then?

Well standardisation hints at the answer

844 is now at Marine.

931 and 933 have now been withdrawn from Lothian Country and 935 is at Longstone.

935 was out on that peak x18/43/x40 board last night

 

[Paul Anderson]

From Midlothian View - https://www.midlothianview.com/news/launch-of-free-community-bus-between-pathhead-and-penicuik

A new, free community bus will run between Pathhead and Penicuik from Monday 31st March.

The new service [800] will be trialled for six months and delivered using some of the council’s dividend from Lothian Buses.

The service will be free initially but will eventually offer the same full and concessionary fares as Lothian Buses if the service becomes permanent.

You can find the full timetable here: www.midlothian.gov.uk/communitybus

 

[danielhogg2005]

From Midlothian View - https://www.midlothianview.com/news/launch-of-free-community-bus-between-pathhead-and-penicuik

A new, free community bus will run between Pathhead and Penicuik from Monday 31st March.

The new service [800] will be trialled for six months and delivered using some of the council’s dividend from Lothian Buses.

The service will be free initially but will eventually offer the same full and concessionary fares as Lothian Buses if the service becomes permanent.

You can find the full timetable here: www.midlothian.gov.uk/communitybus

Will Lothian operate this if it becomes permanent, I hope so.

 

[JKP]

Will Lothian operate this if it becomes permanent, I hope so.

I cannot see it lasting past the six month trial. Am not sure what the objective is other than to provide a link across Midlothian. Anybody know?

 

[Porty]

From Midlothian View - https://www.midlothianview.com/news/launch-of-free-community-bus-between-pathhead-and-penicuik

A new, free community bus will run between Pathhead and Penicuik from Monday 31st March.

The new service [800] will be trialled for six months and delivered using some of the council’s dividend from Lothian Buses.

The service will be free initially but will eventually offer the same full and concessionary fares as Lothian Buses if the service becomes permanent.

You can find the full timetable here: www.midlothian.gov.uk/communitybus

I thought that Lothian have announced that there will be no dividend this year.

 

[NorthEastern]

I thought that Lothian have announced that there will be no dividend this year.

Perhaps it’s from funds set aside from previous dividends.

 

[ScotRail158725]

929/930 with east cosst branding on them now. assuming 931-936 to join them. what other moves will there be next weekend? MMC deckers to move from marine to longstone would seem an obvious one

 

[stevenedin]

929-931 & 933 are currently ready for transfer to East Coast Buses with vinyls at Marine and 934-936 are still at Livingston for now. Not sure if they are staying or not. 843 and 845-850 still at Livingston for now.

 

[scosutsut]

929-931 & 933 are currently ready for transfer to East Coast Buses with vinyls at Marine and 934-936 are still at Livingston for now. Not sure if they are staying or not. 843 and 845-850 still at Livingston for now.

Has anyone worked out the overall PVR increase for ECB? I thought it was minor as I got the impression the Skylinks B5s were originally coming over to oust 937-950 but assume some will need to stay on and these moves are to create cover until the B5s all come on stream?

 

[stevenedin]

Has anyone worked out the overall PVR increase for ECB? I thought it was minor as I got the impression the Skylinks B5s were originally coming over to oust 937-950 but assume some will need to stay on and these moves are to create cover until the B5s all come on stream?

I would have thought that 843 & 845-850, 905-906, 929-931 & 933-936 will be withdrawn before 937-950.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Has anyone worked out the overall PVR increase for ECB? I thought it was minor as I got the impression the Skylinks B5s were originally coming over to oust 937-950 but assume some will need to stay on and these moves are to create cover until the B5s all come on stream?

I've got the following for new PVRs after the change. Former Eve Coaches routes are treated as new.

X4 - Currently 0, will be 5
X5 - Currently 3, will not change
X6 - Currently 5, will be 2*
X7 - Currently 9 (7 daytime singles, one peak time decker and peak time single). Will be 11 (ten single deckers, as well as a double decker peak bus), 6 of which at Dunbar.
106 - Currently 2, will be 3 (two during the day. Two additional buses in the afternoon - one should then form an X6 hence included there). There is a school run in the morning terminating at Tranent, but this looks to change to deadrun to Prestonpans to start an X4 to Tranent.
113 - Currently 6, will be 6. There is a morning school bus to Tranent, but this looks to deadrun back to Pencaitland to form a full service at 8:45
120 - Currently 0, will be 2.
121/3 - Currently 0, will be 2. Interworks.
124 - Currently 8, will not change
125 - Currently 1, will not change
126 - Currently 1, will not change (the single decker journey is included in the X5)
127 - Currently 1, will not change
128 - Currently 1, will not change
139 - Currently 1, will not change
140/1 - Currently 5, will not change (afternoon peak bus comes off school run).

The 107 isn't included as all change to X7s.
* - there are multiple interworking options for the 8:49 124 from Musselburgh. For ease the X6 has been reduced to align with the afternoon.

Hence single deckers are currently 12, increasing to 17. The 106 is not included as I believe this will move to double deckers.
Double deckers are currently 30, increasing to 35.

The single deckers will be 51-65, 197-199 and the three Enviro 200MMCs at minimum. That is 21 total.
I assume the double deckers in the long term will be 496-510, 511-518, 929-936 and 1051-1062. That would be 42 total. It seems unrealistic for them not to move 934-936 as that would make the numbers tight. 934-936 won't be required initially as schools will be off when the change starts and obviously buses from the 937-950 fleet will still be in use.

 

[NorthEastern]

I've got the following for new PVRs after the change. Former Eve Coaches routes are treated as new.

X4 - Currently 0, will be 5
X5 - Currently 3, will not change
X6 - Currently 5, will be 3
X7 - Currently 9 (7 daytime singles, one peak time decker and peak time single). Will be 11 (ten single deckers, as well as a double decker peak bus), 6 of which at Dunbar.
106 - Currently 2, will be 3 (two during the day. Two additional buses in the afternoon - one should then form an X6 hence included there). There is a school run in the morning terminating at Tranent, but this looks to change to deadrun to Prestonpans to start an X4 to Tranent.
113 - Currently 6, will be 6. There is a morning school bus to Tranent, but this looks to deadrun back to Pencaitland to form a full service at 8:45
120 - Currently 0, will be 2.
121/3 - Currently 0, will be 2. Interworks.
124 - Currently 8, will not change
125 - Currently 1, will not change
126 - Currently 1, will not change (the single decker journey is included in the X5)
127 - Currently 1, will not change
128 - Currently 1, will not change
139 - Currently 1, will not change
140/1 - Currently 5, will not change (afternoon peak bus comes off school run).

Hence single deckers are currently 12, increasing to 17. The 106 is not included as I believe this will move to double deckers.
Double deckers are currently 30, increasing to 36.

I personally can't see anywhere the X6 could interwork beyond the already additional peak 106 in the afternoon. I am happy to be corrected if there is interworking somewhere.
I'm assuming that the other additional 106 will be a double decker, aligned with the full route.

The single deckers will be 51-65, 197-199 and the three Enviro 200MMCs at minimum. That is 21 total.
I assume the double deckers in the long term will be 496-510, 511-518, 929-936 and 1051-1062. That would be 42 total. It seems unrealistic for them not to move 934-936 as that would make the numbers tight. 934-936 won't be required initially as schools will be off when the change starts.

Can the X7 take a double decker? I thought there was a low bridge at East Linton involved.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Can the X7 take a double decker? I thought there was a low bridge at East Linton involved.

The peak journey only operates between Haddington and the city centre.

 

[FP transport v]

929/930 with east cosst branding on them now. assuming 931-936 to join them. what other moves will there be next weekend? MMC deckers to move from marine to longstone would seem an obvious one

As far as I'm aware it's only 929-933 moving with 934-936 staying at Livingston.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

As far as I'm aware it's only 929-933 moving with 934-936 staying at Livingston.

934-936 are surplus so will be leaving Livingston once more Gemini3’s move. 447-463 (17) are to replace 841-850, 929-931 and 933-936 (17).

Livingston is effectively balanced at the moment with 843 and 934 requiring work.

 

[Lx008]

Any reason ECB would get and keep 929-936 rather than just keeping 937-950?

Especially since most or all of 937-950 have newer high-back seats which make a difference on runs like the 124 where quite a few passengers will spend more than 1hr onboard

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Any reason ECB would get and keep 929-936 rather than just keeping 937-950?

Especially since most or all of 937-950 have newer high-back seats which make a difference on runs like the 124 where quite a few passengers will spend more than 1hr onboard

They could be used mostly on school runs and peak extras. It’s possible Lothian has a buyer for all of 937-950 lined up already.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

511 is currently a school bus, very possible it will be moving forward.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I've got the following for new PVRs after the change. Former Eve Coaches routes are treated as new.

X4 - Currently 0, will be 5
X5 - Currently 3, will not change
X6 - Currently 5, will be 2*
X7 - Currently 9 (7 daytime singles, one peak time decker and peak time single). Will be 11 (ten single deckers, as well as a double decker peak bus), 6 of which at Dunbar.
106 - Currently 2, will be 3 (two during the day. Two additional buses in the afternoon - one should then form an X6 hence included there). There is a school run in the morning terminating at Tranent, but this looks to change to deadrun to Prestonpans to start an X4 to Tranent.
113 - Currently 6, will be 6. There is a morning school bus to Tranent, but this looks to deadrun back to Pencaitland to form a full service at 8:45
120 - Currently 0, will be 2.
121/3 - Currently 0, will be 2. Interworks.
124 - Currently 8, will not change
125 - Currently 1, will not change
126 - Currently 1, will not change (the single decker journey is included in the X5)
127 - Currently 1, will not change
128 - Currently 1, will not change
139 - Currently 1, will not change
140/1 - Currently 5, will not change (afternoon peak bus comes off school run).

The 107 isn't included as all change to X7s.
* - there are multiple interworking options for the 8:49 124 from Musselburgh. For ease the X6 has been reduced to align with the afternoon.

Hence single deckers are currently 12, increasing to 17. The 106 is not included as I believe this will move to double deckers.
Double deckers are currently 30, increasing to 35.

The single deckers will be 51-65, 197-199 and the three Enviro 200MMCs at minimum. That is 21 total.
I assume the double deckers in the long term will be 496-510, 511-518, 929-936 and 1051-1062. That would be 42 total. It seems unrealistic for them not to move 934-936 as that would make the numbers tight. 934-936 won't be required initially as schools will be off when the change starts and obviously buses from the 937-950 fleet will still be in use.

I've reviewed the schedules and now reduced the new double decker PVR to 35.

In the morning, any one of the X6, 106 or 128 peak trips can form the 8:49 124 departure from Musselburgh. It could also be a case of buses returning to the garage first before one is put into service again.
One of the 106 or 128 should still change to an X4 from Prestonpans to Tranent.

In the afternoon, one of the X6 trips could come from a school run, like the double decker X7 does.

 

[alexf380]

I've reviewed the schedules and now reduced the new double decker PVR to 35.

In the morning, any one of the X6, 106 or 128 peak trips can form the 8:49 124 departure from Musselburgh. It could also be a case of buses returning to the garage first before one is put into service again.
One of the 106 or 128 should still change to an X4 from Prestonpans to Tranent.

In the afternoon, one of the X6 trips could come from a school run, like the double decker X7 does.

You've certainly done your homework! It's the 106 short journey that goes onto the X4 the rest of the day and I believe the morning 128 goes onto that 124.
In the afternoon, one 106 extra turns into an X6, as does the 126 board. The 127 goes onto the Haddington short X7 as it does currently. Also, the three boards that include X6 journeys will start and finish at Marine due to space constraints at Musselburgh. There certainly is a lot of dead mileage being added in these changes.

511 is currently a school bus, very possible it will be moving forward.

Correct, it's in a poor way mechanically so is restricted to school runs until it gets fixed.

 

[VioletEclipse]

One thing that surprises me is quite how many stop names the new text-to-speech stop announcements on pre-2017 buses gets wrong. Even though it will give an accurate location for the bus stop, they should really make sure that what it says lines up with the actual bus stop name.

 

[stevenedin]

449 is now at Livingston and 845 withdrawn and at Marine.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Also, the three boards that include X6 journeys will start and finish at Marine due to space constraints at Musselburgh. There certainly is a lot of dead mileage being added in these changes.

Does this mean some East Coast buses will now be based at Marine? As I thought until the changes they were all based/stored at Musselburgh and only went from Musselburgh to Marine and back for maintenance.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Does this mean some East Coast buses will now be based at Marine? As I thought until the changes they were all based/stored at Musselburgh and only went from Musselburgh to Marine and back for maintenance.

Everything I would imagine will still be allocated to Musselburgh with Dunbar, North Berwick and Marine treated as ‘outstations’ for the purpose of ECB bus allocations. Though Dunbar will probably officially have the 120, 121 and 123 stock allocated to it. However the X7’s bus allocation should still be Musselburgh based with Dunbar as the outstation. Obviously Marine very much a main Lothian depot as well. A small number of drivers are based at North Berwick and soon Dunbar too but I don’t think ECB will base any drivers at Marine. Rather this could be carried out by Musselburgh drivers using vans to/from Marine or if needbe use Lothian resources on Overtime. Though when Musselburgh had this in the past, it was ended due to the pay differences.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Everything I would imagine will still be allocated to Musselburgh with Dunbar, North Berwick and Marine treated as ‘outstations’ for the purpose of ECB bus allocations. Though Dunbar will probably officially have the 120, 121 and 123 stock allocated to it. However the X7’s bus allocation should still be Musselburgh based with Dunbar as the outstation. Obviously Marine very much a main Lothian depot as well. A small number of drivers are based at North Berwick and soon Dunbar too but I don’t think ECB will base any drivers at Marine. Rather this could be carried out by Musselburgh drivers using vans to/from Marine or if needbe use Lothian resources on Overtime. Though when Musselburgh had this in the past, it was ended due to the pay differences.

Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense.
Can I check I've got this correct, buses follow blocks, and drivers follow duties?
So it sounds like some of the vehicle blocks will span multiple days then, e.g.
Block #1 day #1 starts at Musselburgh depot and ends at Marine depot, Block #1 day #2 starts at Marine depot and ends at Musselburgh depot.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense.
Can I check I've got this correct, buses follow blocks, and drivers follow duties?
So it sounds like some of the vehicle blocks will span multiple days then, e.g.
Block #1 day #1 starts at Musselburgh depot and ends at Marine depot, Block #1 day #2 starts at Marine depot and ends at Musselburgh depot.

There are examples of bus blocks having different start and end points. Drivers rotas I think should start and end at the same location, though breaks can happen elsewhere away from the start point.