ThameslinkUser
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Nothing planned but there have been preliminary informal discussions according to an FOI from a couple days ago.
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LU/Elizabeth Line 4G update
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From what I remember last time I was on it, it's only really Wapping, Shadwell and Whitechapel that have signal issues there. Canada water has coverage in the station now. Whitechapel will be covered by tube coverage I would assume too. So it's really only 2 stations and a fairly short length of track in-between the underground stations.
The good thing about 4g compared to WiFi is it is usually a lot faster to reconnect at stations. The tube WiFi was awful for that, by the time it had reconnected (even on the SIM.based auth SSIDs) you'd have left the station again.
Yes, this is a pain when you're on a train and using the station stops to get back online for a bit. Better than nothing, but Wi-Fi isn't ideal for that. Indeed, roaming from AP to AP is still not seamless even on the latest Wi-Fi standards, and your device has to make a decision on when to seek to move (even if the AP can set parameters to encourage it). If you simply eject a user once the signal drops to a certain level, to try and force it to re-register, that just results in more problems.
Wi-Fi certainly works best when you aren't moving much (in relation to the AP). Hence a good mobile DAS in a place like an airport or shopping centre is preferable to loads of APs to cover the same area - given people are likely walking a lot.
Gigabit
Member
Does anyone know if they plan to supplement macro coverage on outdoor sections?
For example the District Line is poor outside Wimbledon and East Putney but is outdoors, are they going to remedy this with the Tube 4G rollout?
For example the District Line is poor outside Wimbledon and East Putney but is outdoors, are they going to remedy this with the Tube 4G rollout?
There is. There's meant to be a public one (actual live date being pushed back), and a staff one that is in use, but even that is patchy.
Gigabit
Member
Camden Town now live
Tube 4G network expands to Camden Town ahead of summer West End rollout
Around 10 per cent of Tube stations with below ground platforms are now connected
www.standard.co.uk
Later this summer, some of central London's busiest Tube stations, including Oxford Circus and Tottenham Court Road, will also get coverage for the first time, along with further stations along the Northern and Central lines.
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JonnyM
Member
It will be interesting to see what TfL decide for the covered sections of the District/Circle and Met lines. In some sections reception is passable but others non-existent. I’ve not seen any information about the plans with TfL concentrating on tube lines.
The potential for the TfL antennas to 'leak' their signal to the surface is probably an additional headache for the engineers to overcome.
It wouldn't really matter. Leaky feeders for tunnels run at such low power that it's not a real concern. Probably just half a metre of ground (or even less, really) would completely attenuate the signal into being useless.
If the concern is the bits that are just below ground level but open to the outside, networks have solutions to prevent interference, similar to if there are two sites outside near each other.
Gigabit
Member
I've put in a FOI request to ask about coverage on the outdoor sections, will let you all know what the response is.
matt_world2004
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Why would this matter the mobile phone companies paying for the concession aren't going to care if their customers outside the railway can use the signal
The way that adjacent cells behave with each other is fairly meticulously orchestrated.
Gigabit
Member
The networks can just prioritise macro coverage if needed, the architecture of the BAI system will be setup to push customers off at a very high relative signal strength
I don't work for any company involved so I can't confirm this but I'd expect the EL WiFi to be using the 4G/5G in the tunnels as backhaul which would be why it doesn't work in the tunnels yet. The trains already need a staff WiFi network and a connection for PIS and other train systems so the cost of a customer facing network isn't that high.
Similarly, Manchester Metrolink uses WiFi-based signalling, making it trivial to offer a secondary connection to customers.
There are many ways to steer a handset to the right site(s) and I am sure you could even restrict some surrounding sites from handing off to each other. Sure it requires some work, but there are loads of parameters to manage sites in busy areas. Steering people to/from specific bands is also used to offer the best use of resources (e.g. only allowing a user on to 800MHz LTE as a last resort, so it can be 'reserved' for people indoors where they can't see other bands).
Why do they need a staff WiFi network? Ethernet port in the cab to plug a laptop in should suffice.
matt_world2004
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Probably for the customer service assistants with tablets on the platform?
Then give them WiFi on the platforms.
matt_world2004
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Why would you need a laptop in a tunnel, seriously.? The WiFi for the trains is for the onboard computer system like the passenger information screens.
Also for BTP. Similar to the RailNetPol network across the tube.
Mornington Crecent enabled now: https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/article...overage-to-mornington-crescent-station-63634/
Article also mentions testing has started on Victoria, Bakerloo and Picc lines, so maybe rollout picking up speed (finally!)
Article also mentions testing has started on Victoria, Bakerloo and Picc lines, so maybe rollout picking up speed (finally!)
Indeed, Mornington Crescent was live for testing last weekend on Three when I visited to update my online map.
Guess that's just another bit to update this evening, too!
Guess that's just another bit to update this evening, too!
JonnyM
Member
It’s all getting very exciting all of a sudden isn’t it?
jon81uk
Member
The on-train WiFi is on almost all National Rail trains, including London Overground. Nothing new to have it on Elizabeth Line too.
FWIW, I've updated my TfL mobile map to add Mornington Crescent, as well as additional info about how the deployment works and how the JLE and current deployment differs.
I hope to add more info about hardware and such too in the coming future.
mastdatabase.co.uk
I hope to add more info about hardware and such too in the coming future.
London Underground mobile connectivity map | mastdatabase.co.uk
Interactive map of mobile network deployments on the London Underground.
mastdatabase.co.uk
JonnyM
Member
Thanks, an interesting update for the non-techie like me. I‘m surprised that Vodafone have deployed 3G as part of their roll out what with them switching it off elsewhere. I can’t see it lasting that long so I’m not sure why they bothered?FWIW, I've updated my TfL mobile map to add Mornington Crescent, as well as additional info about how the deployment works and how the JLE and current deployment differs.
I hope to add more info about hardware and such too in the coming future.
London Underground mobile connectivity map | mastdatabase.co.uk
Interactive map of mobile network deployments on the London Underground.
There was a press release from BAI several months ago proudly stating that the roll out on the Jubilee line was ‘complete’, but I’m surprised how complete given that it doesn’t yet have 5G and only half the line is still covered?
It’s good to see the way leaky feeders work in relation to the stations as well. I didn’t imagine it was like what was in the graphic and probably explains why someone who was using their phone for a voice call on the live Central line section was cut off mid way between the stations, much to his annoyance!
Did they come back with a reply? I’m pretty sure that all lines will eventually be covered because isn’t the roll out related to the Emergency Services Network that the government rolling out nationwide?
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Gigabit
Member
Reply from TfL on my FOI on District Line coverage out of tunnels.
Must say I am very disappointed.
Must say I am very disappointed.
At least they replied with the useful answer by saying "Any areas that are above ground"; rather than the unfriendly option which they could have chosen by just saying "Not at East Putney" or "Not on the District Line".
Weirdly I got (fully working!) signal on o2 (LTE800) on the escalators going from Elizabeth line to moorgate entrance today, which is very deep in at the bottom. Whether this was some pre switched on testing cell or maybe some weird signal from above via a ventilation shaft, I don't know, but it worked the entire length of both long escalators. Weirdly also got EE LTE1800 (not working, as I'm on o2!) cells showing up on the Northern Line platforms at moorgate.
Maybe something is going to be imminently switched on?
Maybe something is going to be imminently switched on?