Lumo - new Open Access operator on the East Coast Main Line

[Starmill]

Not much of a selling point is it? “Unlike LNER, our trains can’t self rescue, and will be cancelled during engineering work as we can’t divert off route…”

I thought their technical specification was that they can self-rescue using the battery? It's replacing a diesel power pack and fuel tank so there was lots mass to play with. Certainly more than the batteries in, say, a Pendolino.

And of course, much of LNER's fleet is unable to be planned to operate over unelectrified routes in exactly the same way that Lumo will be.

 

[CreamNCookies]

The batteries on the train only last around 90 mins and are for appliances and lighting.

 

[Mikey C]

Not one convenient to the departure of the train from KX, plus Luton trains go from St Pancras next door.

Victoria Line to Tottenham Hale for the Stansted Express...

It just slightly defeats the object, as if the train is faster, everyone is just going to say "you flew to the wrong airport"

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Why is he flying to Glasgow, to take a train to Edinburgh? Couldn't he find an Edinburgh flight?

If you read the blog, he couldn't find an affordable direct flight to match the Lumo departure.
He's going to win anyway, despite the roundabout route.
If you follow RTT, there are 4 trains chasing each other down the ECML to Edinburgh (XC, LNER, Lumo and another LNER), all running a bit behind time.
The first train (XC) stops at Dunbar, so they are all going to show up at Waverley around 1520.
Simon should have time for a coffee before Mark turns up.

The flight routeing will be significantly more expensive than the Lumo, despite a £25 air fare.
Ironically, "the railway" (Thameslink and Scotrail) will earn more from Simon on the "air" trip than from Mark on the "rail" trip.

 

[CrickUK]

Did this service go via the station avoiding lines at York? Is it the first passenger service to do so?

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought their technical specification was that they can self-rescue using the battery? It's replacing a diesel power pack and fuel tank so there was lots mass to play with. Certainly more than the batteries in, say, a Pendolino.

And of course, much of LNER's fleet is unable to be planned to operate over unelectrified routes in exactly the same way that Lumo will be.

No, sometime last year it was confirmed the 803 did not have a traction battery capability.

 

[jfollows]

Did this service go via the station avoiding lines at York? Is it the first passenger service to do so?

Yes it did (I watched on traksy.uk). Unlikely to be the first passenger service but I don’t know for sure. First to be scheduled that way for a while though.

Realtime Trains - 171E 1045 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Starmill]

No, sometime last year it was confirmed the 803 did not have a traction battery capability.

I see fair enough.

 

[CrickUK]

Yes it did (I watched on traksy.uk). Unlikely to be the first passenger service but I don’t know for sure. First to be scheduled that way for a while though.

Realtime Trains - 171E 1045 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Thanks for the confirmation, I am not aware of any other services going that way, most non stops run through the platforms, either 3 or 5 depending on direction.

 

[Starmill]

It's interesting that Lumo Only OR2 "Anytime Open Return" ticket types are on sale, they must have used SWR to enter their fares. They're just set at double the Anytime Day Single.

 

[Spartacus]

Did this service go via the station avoiding lines at York? Is it the first passenger service to do so?

Sleepers have gone that way before when they've been on the ECML.

 

[Glenn1969]

Mark and LUMO arrived 2 minutes early at 1515 according to RTT. Did Simon win in the end?

 

[Bletchleyite]

But the point is that their trains are more “green” because they are electric only. In the event of engineering works, by not running they will not be pumping any nasty diesel fumes into the environment

Wonder will they decline a shove from a diesel-equipped LNER in the event of the wires coming down?

It's interesting that Lumo Only OR2 "Anytime Open Return" ticket types are on sale, they must have used SWR to enter their fares. They're just set at double the Anytime Day Single.

It is perfectly normal for InterCity Anytime Returns to be twice the Anytime (Day) Single, Avanti's mostly are for example, or were last time I checked.

 

[Glenn1969]

Wonder will they decline a shove from a diesel-equipped LNER in the event of the wires coming down?

I was wondering the same given how many OLE glitches there seem to be on the 2 track stretch in Nottinghamshire

 

[CAF397]

Victoria Line to Tottenham Hale for the Stansted Express...

It just slightly defeats the object, as if the train is faster, everyone is just going to say "you flew to the wrong airport"

OK, so leaving KX at 1040 via Victoria Line gets to Tottenham Hale for 1059. Next Stansted Express departed at 1122 arriving Stansted Airport 1200.

Only flight to Edinburgh around those times departed at 1220, no way Simon would've made that flight.

Its clear he's done his research as to which airport would be easy to get to, and which flights were convenient.

There was an 1140 Heathrow to Edinburgh, but no way to get from KX to Heathrow in time, same as the 1150 Gatwick to Edinburgh.

As others have said, had they agreed somewhere in Central London to depart, then maybe it would've opened up other airports.

 

[ScotTrains]

Mark and LUMO arrived 2 minutes early at 1515 according to RTT. Did Simon win in the end?

Not sure. He got off at Haymarket and decided to walk the last leg.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I tried to access the lumo website on my work computer, and got this message:

Access to this domain name was blocked because the site was identified as malicious or the site has been explicitly blocked

 

[Wallsendmag]

Did this service go via the station avoiding lines at York? Is it the first passenger service to do so?

The avoiding line was used weekly during Electrification

 

[43066]

Certainly if I was setting up a new intercity TOC I'd use a staffing model similar to what they have used, i.e. driver controlling operations and stewards dealing with customer service and emergencies.

I suppose the “operational convenience” arguments in favour of DOO are at their weakest with intercity ops: if you’re stopping a handful of times in 4.5 hours 30 seconds here or there is neither here nor there, and you’re going to need someone onboard to do the customer service bit on journeys of that length, so might as well go the whole hog and make them safety critical (as Lumo have, to be fair, albeit still insisting on drivers doing the doors presumably to justify paying the on train “ambassadors” less and/or to make them disposable in the future).

Are the Stewards safety critical ? If they are dealing with emergencies then surely they would need some form of track competency ?

As I understand from the recruitment threads they are indeed safety critical and will be expected to dispatch on occasion (during degraded working?). DCO really just means DOO from a driver’s perspective. Rulebook wise it’s no different to a 395 with an OBS, or a Networker with a roving cleaner for that matter; you’re going to be doing the doors and dispatching yourself!

I see Simon Calder is having a race today with Mark Smith (seat61.com) between London and Edinburgh.
Mark is on the 1045 Lumo service from King's Cross (running in the path of the first commercial service next week).
Simon saw the train off and then caught a Thameslink service from St Pancras to Luton Airport Parkway, then on to EZY 65 to Glasgow, intending to catch a Scotrail service to Edinburgh to meet Mark on his arrival.
Simon has a progress blog on the Independent site: Lumo train launch live: Is it faster than a plane between between London and Edinburgh? | The Independent
and Mark's Lumo service can be tracked on RTT: Realtime Trains - 171E 1045 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
So far, both trips are running to time, Lumo having just passed Durham (was 9 early approaching York).

One comment from the blog: Lumo claim they are all-electric, while LNER are bi-mode.
That's not true if you are on an LNER 801.
Lumo can hardly claim they run "a different sort of train".

1345: EZY65 has landed a few minutes early at Glasgow; Lumo is at its Newcastle stop on time.

Im not sure I understand the point of the “race”. It’s stacked in favour of the train given he’s starting from the platform as the train pulls out, and is then flying to the wrong city etc.

The reality is the kind of traveller who values ultimate speed, perhaps wanting to do London to Edinburgh and back in a day for meetings, won’t ever use the train because 4.5 hours (minimum) travelling each way is simply too long.

To be fair to Lumo this isn’t really their target market.

 

[Starmill]

It is perfectly normal for InterCity Anytime Returns to be twice the Anytime (Day) Single, Avanti's mostly are for example, or were last time I checked.

I know it is. At SWR they're set at double too. I was making a comment specifically on it being an Anytime Open Return.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know it is. At SWR they're set at double too. I was making a comment specifically on it being an Anytime Open Return.

Oh, as in them having used their own ticket type rather than just SOS/SOR? I suppose there's not much scope for non-fraudulent overnight break of journey given the nature of their stopping pattern.

 

[greyman42]

The 1436 Kings Cross to Edinburgh went through York station (P 10) when down to use the avoider.

 

[PG]

I tried to access the lumo website on my work computer, and got this message:

Access to this domain name was blocked because the site was identified as malicious or the site has been explicitly blocked

One would hope it just the filters used by your work and not a more general thing. Can't think what nefarious activities might be associated with lumo?

 

[centro-323]

The 1436 Kings Cross to Edinburgh went through York station (P 10) when down to use the avoider.

This is the risk for the track bashers. The route is ultimately up to the signaller

 

[L+Y]

The 1436 Kings Cross to Edinburgh went through York station (P 10) when down to use the avoider.

I saw it pass- I counted a grand total of one (1) passenger!

EDIT- Having not followed the Lumo launch, I hadn't realised they're not yet in public service! That would explain things...

 

[Christmas]

A friend is entitled to First Group £6 family and friends tickets so we'll give Lumpo a try from Edinburgh to King's Cross next time we're off to the West Country. I hope that they are included in the offer, so far they're not appearing on the dedicated website. If not then it'll be Avanti and GWR.

 

[zero]

I'll be on the 1045 on Monday, anyone else?

 

[PhilH]

Not sure. He got off at Haymarket and decided to walk the last leg.

He told me he had to run to get his train from Glasgow so decided to even things up by walking from Haymarket. Had he missed that Glasgow train he would have been 15 minutes behind the Lumo. In the end, it was pretty much a draw.

 

[hexagon789]

He told me he had to run to get his train from Glasgow so decided to even things up by walking from Haymarket. Had he missed that Glasgow train he would have been 15 minutes behind the Lumo. In the end, it was pretty much a draw.

Even though GLQ-EDB is only every 30 mins not every 15 presently?

 

[Mikey C]

OK, so leaving KX at 1040 via Victoria Line gets to Tottenham Hale for 1059. Next Stansted Express departed at 1122 arriving Stansted Airport 1200.

Only flight to Edinburgh around those times departed at 1220, no way Simon would've made that flight.

Its clear he's done his research as to which airport would be easy to get to, and which flights were convenient.

There was an 1140 Heathrow to Edinburgh, but no way to get from KX to Heathrow in time, same as the 1150 Gatwick to Edinburgh.

As others have said, had they agreed somewhere in Central London to depart, then maybe it would've opened up other airports.

It's a completely artificial scenario to start at KX at 1040 though, which just happens to be just before the Lumo train takes off. In reality, anyone choosing to fly or take the train to Scotland would leave home at the right time to catch the convenient flight or train. Especially as being only twice a day, the Lumo isn't a turn up and catch the train service like LNER.