Lumo - new Open Access operator on the East Coast Main Line

[185143]

The trouble is, if there's no pre-boarding control, and several hundred people just get onto a train, the train manager isn't going to be able to check any tickets, let alone identify / charge the people with Lumo Only ones. The train crew can hardly go up against that many people. They have a choice only to either leave with the train full and standing or refuse to go at all and leave everyone stuck then.

I was stood near the Foodbar and the TM managed to get through to us at least. Heard him tell the catering staff there were nearly 350 people just in coaches A, B and C, and he'd been told to estimate numbers of Lumo passengers. He couldn't get any further down the train.

I've no idea wether acceptance was formally organised or not, but Lumo passengers had seemingly been directed to that train. Either way, it was a very poor first impression for me and no doubt many others!

 

[DanNCL]

It would appear that LNER *did* agree ticket acceptance. Both Lumo and LNER really haven't done a good job of communicating this given how many reports there are on Twitter of people being charged for new tickets...

The situation for those off the cancelled 16:12 Lumo service has been a shambles. Absolutely zero communication by Lumo to any customers from Morpeth or Newcastle so those passengers wouldn't have found out until they got to the station. Credit to LNER for taking an additional 400 passengers on top of their own plus the several hundred diverted from the WCML, but I do have to wonder if the message about ticket acceptance was properly communicated to staff given that there are several reports of people being charged more than £100 for new tickets.

 

[irish_rail]

Can't help but think todays shambles highlights the problems of microfleets, if it was an LNER service failing another set may have been found on Craigentinny, yet with LUmO the minute there is a set failure its game over.
As with so many things on the railway, they work so well on paper, but in practice there just isn't the resilience.
And I hope Lumo is successful, as fast limited stop IC trains is what the country needs more of, its just a shame the franchised operators are so keen to make so called express trains stop everywhere!

 

[185143]

It would appear that LNER *did* agree ticket acceptance. Both Lumo and LNER really haven't done a good job of communicating this given how many reports there are on Twitter of people being charged for new tickets...

The situation for those off the cancelled 16:12 Lumo service has been a shambles. Absolutely zero communication by Lumo to any customers from Morpeth or Newcastle so those passengers wouldn't have found out until they got to the station. Credit to LNER for taking an additional 400 passengers on top of their own plus the several hundred diverted from the WCML, but I do have to wonder if the message about ticket acceptance was properly communicated to staff given that there are several reports of people being charged more than £100 for new tickets.

Agreed. I don't really have much time for LNER, but I've nothing but respect for how they handled the situation this evening.

 

[221129]

Unsurprisingly LNER appear not to be accepting those with Lumo only tickets who should have been on the cancelled 16:12. Plenty of reports on the likes of Twitter of people being charged three digit sums of money for new tickets to travel with LNER.

Can anyone confirm if ticket acceptance with LNER was requested and refused, or if Lumo simply went down the refund everyone route?

Ticket acceptance was agreed for the 1730 and 1830 ex Edinburgh.

bsolutely zero communication by Lumo to any customers from Morpeth or Newcastle so those passengers wouldn't have found out until they got to the station.

Given that it is TPE control running the show, then I am not at all surprised in the slightest.

 

[JonathanH]

Can't help but think todays shambles highlights the problems of microfleets, if it was an LNER service failing another set may have been found on Craigentinny, yet with LUmO the minute there is a set failure its game over.
As with so many things on the railway, they work so well on paper, but in practice there just isn't the resilience.

I'd imagine that 'may' is the operative word. Surely the best LNER might have managed after one of their own cancellations is stepping up some services. Do they have a 'hot spare' at Craigentinny?

As it is, Lumo would have had two units in Scotland (and the other in London working the Edinburgh starter) but presumably the other unit was not available.

 

[DanNCL]

Can't help but think todays shambles highlights the problems of microfleets, if it was an LNER service failing another set may have been found on Craigentinny, yet with LUmO the minute there is a set failure its game over.
As with so many things on the railway, they work so well on paper, but in practice there just isn't the resilience.
And I hope Lumo is successful, as fast limited stop IC trains is what the country needs more of, its just a shame the franchised operators are so keen to make so called express trains stop everywhere!

I'd imagine that 'may' is the operative word. Surely the best LNER might have managed after one of their own cancellations is stepping up some services. Do they have a 'hot spare' at Craigentinny?

As it is, Lumo would have had two units in Scotland (and the other in London working the Edinburgh starter) but presumably the other unit was not available.

Lumo actually had three units in Scotland this afternoon. 803001 worked the 10:45 from London this morning and therefore should have worked the 16:12 back from Edinburgh, but didn’t. 803002 appears to have been brought out from Craigentinny as a last minute replacement, but had issues itself. The third 803 in Scotland is 803004 at Craigentinny, which hasn’t worked a passenger service yet.

Unless they’re planning to hire in an 802 from Hull Trains, there seems to be little chance of the 10:45 from London running tomorrow. There’s certainly no 803 in position to run it.

 

[Eboordna]

Lumo actually had three units in Scotland this afternoon. 803001 worked the 10:45 from London this morning and therefore should have worked the 16:12 back from Edinburgh, but didn’t. 803002 appears to have been brought out from Craigentinny as a last minute replacement, but had issues itself. The third 803 in Scotland is 803004 at Craigentinny, which hasn’t worked a passenger service yet.

Unless they’re planning to hire in an 802 from Hull Trains, there seems to be little chance of the 10:45 from London running tomorrow. There’s certainly no 803 in position to run it.

You might want to look a little closer at what is moving right now….

 

[Starmill]

Can Lumo crews work Hull Trains sets, if required? Seems unlikely one will actually be available on any frequency but still. Perhaps they might be available at times when there's no route to Hull due to engineering work.

 

[DanNCL]

You might want to look a little closer at what is moving right now….

I’ve just seen. Only one unit though so they’re still short in London tomorrow, as they also need a unit for the 12:18.

Can Lumo crews work Hull Trains sets, if required? Seems unlikely one will actually be available on any frequency but still. Perhaps they might be available at times when there's no route to Hull due to engineering work.

Most of the training for Lumo was done on 802s hired in from Hull Trains, with a TPE unit substituting on the rare occasions a Hull Trains unit wasn’t available.

 

[Eboordna]

Can Lumo crews work Hull Trains sets, if required? Seems unlikely one will actually be available on any frequency but still. Perhaps they might be available at times when there's no route to Hull due to engineering work.

Not sure why they would need to?

Realtime Trains - 5Z86 1911 Edinburgh to Bounds Green T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[185143]

Can Lumo crews work Hull Trains sets, if required? Seems unlikely one will actually be available on any frequency but still. Perhaps they might be available at times when there's no route to Hull due to engineering work.

They were using them for driver training so I assume so. Unless it was just route learning?

 

[Eboordna]

I’ve just seen. Only one unit though so they’re still short in London tomorrow, as they also need a unit for the 12:18.



Most of the training for Lumo was done on 802s hired in from Hull Trains, with a TPE unit substituting on the rare occasions a Hull Trains unit wasn’t available.

and the 12:18 can be formed from a morning run down from Craigentinny…

 

[centro-323]

They were using them for driver training so I assume so. Unless it was just route learning?

The drivers would have no bother operating an 802, but the situation for the ambassadors wouldn't be as simple, given the completely different catering facilities on board.

And don't forget the significantly lower number of seats

 

[Starmill]

Not sure why they would need to?

Realtime Trains - 5Z86 1911 Edinburgh to Bounds Green T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I don't know what you're linking me to but I didn't say they'd need to. Indeed regardless of any need one being available isn't readily likely.

 

[IanXC]

Can Lumo crews work Hull Trains sets, if required? Seems unlikely one will actually be available on any frequency but still. Perhaps they might be available at times when there's no route to Hull due to engineering work.

Hull Trains full timetable requires 3 sets (of their 5) so its likely there will be at least one spare, until they start 10-car working on Fridays and Saturdays at least.

and the 12:18 can be formed from a morning run down from Craigentinny…

We're assuming 5Z86 wasn't 2 sets....

 

[185143]

The drivers would have no bother operating an 802, but the situation for the ambassadors wouldn't be as simple, given the completely different catering facilities on board.

And don't forget the significantly lower number of seats

Better than a cancellation resulting in no seats.

I fully agree it's very much theoretical however. Presumably the HT units can run as DOO?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

DanNCL is right Lumo have used Hull 802s but the have also made far more use of TPE 802s than just a few substitutions. Given that there were spare TPE units at craigentinny I am surprised they didn't draft one into service but then we don't know what they can and can't do behind the scenes

I fully agree it's very much theoretical however. Presumably the HT units can run as DOO?

Drivers can also use bell buzzer despatch if necessary as can customer ambassadors as the drivers work as a pair, one drives, the other effectively is a train manager

HT and TPE 802s are fully set up and capable of DOO despatch

As long as the Ambassadors maintain diplomatic relations with their LNER counterparts, peace should prevail.

I'll let you know after Saturday night. a LNER colleague is having a retirement do and some of my former TPE colleagues who now work for Lumo will be there! XD

 

[Thumper1127]

Hull Trains full timetable requires 3 sets (of their 5) so its likely there will be at least one spare, until they start 10-car working on Fridays and Saturdays at least.



We're assuming 5Z86 wasn't 2 sets....

RTT is showing the 0612 EDB - KGX as running today for the first time and, if so, that will form the 1218 from KGX.

 

[ScotRail158725]

RTT is showing the 0612 EDB - KGX as running today for the first time and, if so, that will form the 1218 from KGX.

it seems to be forming the 1045 which has had its ECS from the depot cancelled and is now showing 1110 departure

 

[TheBigD]

it seems to be forming the 1045 which has had its ECS from the depot cancelled and is now showing 1110 departure

Thee 1045 left Kings Cross 33 late. Formed off the 1051 arrival from Edinburgh.
Will be interesting to see if it is able to make up any lost time or whether it gets hammered by following other services. It will have caught up the 1106 Kings Cross to York stopper by Grantham.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Thee 1045 left Kings Cross 33 late. Formed off the 1051 arrival from Edinburgh.
Will be interesting to see if it is able to make up any lost time or whether it gets hammered by following other services. It will have caught up the 1106 Kings Cross to York stopper by Grantham.

Theres 37 minutes worth of slack on the timetable. Im expecting it to arrive into Edinburgh between 1525-1530 behind 1S13

 

[Starmill]

Thee 1045 left Kings Cross 33 late. Formed off the 1051 arrival from Edinburgh.
Will be interesting to see if it is able to make up any lost time or whether it gets hammered by following other services. It will have caught up the 1106 Kings Cross to York stopper by Grantham.

I wonder if it will be able to overtake it while it calls at Retford?

 

[TheBigD]

I wonder if it will be able to overtake it while it calls at Retford?

It just has.

 

[pdeaves]

I wonder if it will be able to overtake it while it calls at Retford?

Looks like it!

 

[ScotRail158725]

I wonder if it will be able to overtake it while it calls at Retford?

Yes it has although the stopper caught it up again while it waited for a stone train to cross at Doncaster

 

[tornado]

Will the slack in LUMOs timetable improve after the December Timetable change? It seems they could get under 4 hours Edin - Kings Cross just with a few timing adjustments. Even one of the current timings is 4 hr 3 mins on the sunday morning.

 

[DanNCL]

Will the slack in LUMOs timetable improve after the December Timetable change? It seems they could get under 4 hours Edin - Kings Cross just with a few timing adjustments. Even one of the current timings is 4 hr 3 mins on the sunday morning.

Unlikely to be any noticeable improvements to Lumo’s paths until the full ECML timetable recast when it eventually happens.

 

[Starmill]

Will the slack in LUMOs timetable improve after the December Timetable change? It seems they could get under 4 hours Edin - Kings Cross just with a few timing adjustments. Even one of the current timings is 4 hr 3 mins on the sunday morning.

They're likely to get a couple of minutes movement here and there, and no more until the main changes come around.

 

[Watershed]

Will the slack in LUMOs timetable improve after the December Timetable change? It seems they could get under 4 hours Edin - Kings Cross just with a few timing adjustments. Even one of the current timings is 4 hr 3 mins on the sunday morning.

It won't change until the ECML recast. The fastest timings are generally where they've "stolen" a currently unused path.

For example 1E80, the 05:36 off Edinburgh on a Saturday gets a near perfect run to Newcastle because it effectively runs in the path of the Flying Scotsman which doesn't run on Saturdays (it gets caught up further south).