Lumo - passenger experience criticised in Which? review

[2L70]

Can’t be good for their reputation when an established consumer organization(going back almost 60 years no less) is criticizing them

 

[800001]

Lumo aren't going to do this; adding table seats is better for groups (and also adds luggage space, between the seat backs) however it would reduce the seating capacity, and Lumo's aim is to maximise seats.

My advice to a group wanting tables would be to either book with us (or any other Trainsplit site) early, to obtain the few tables that exist (I think this is just one per coach, but I've never used Lumo personally), or travel with an alternative operator.

That said, while tables do help, I don't think parents can be excused for allowing children to misbehave on this basis. Some parents allow poor behaviour even when the children are in full view.

Don’t Lumo have to have so many seats per train as part of there agreement to have paths on the ECML?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Don’t Lumo have to have so many seats per train as part of there agreement to have paths on the ECML?

I was under that impression too. Around 400, give or take how wheelchair or tip-up spaces are counted, I think.

 

[styles]

To try and add some sort of objectivity into things - according to the last full year data from ORR, Lumo are pretty much bang in the middle for passenger satisfaction with complaints handling by operator, and in the top quarter for complaints outcomes by operator. This does only concern complaints though, not overall satisfaction.

Transport Focus don't have a statistically significant number of Lumo passenger responses to include them in their latest report. Looking at the (statistically limited) raw data, helpfulness of staff doesn't score well compared to other operators, Internet reliability, and to a lesser extent cleanliness and comfort letting them down also (though in the latter cases, they're far from the worst operator, but the bottom half). On the plus side, unsurprisingly, they come in 2nd for value for money of the ticket.

I suspect there's some things they can improve easily, and some they can't (or not easily). If they're going to enforce luggage restrictions, and other operators generally aren't, then that is a "new" concept for most rail passengers in the UK so it's never really going to come across as 'helpful and friendly' - there's only so polite you can be when denying somebody boarding. They could offer to take extra luggage for a charge, like budget airlines do, but I suspect this wouldn't boost their staff helpfulness and friendliness ratings much. Regarding comfort, packing passengers in is basically their core business, and with the ironing board seats and limited legroom, this won't shift much. Conversely, cleanliness can be worked on with small tweaks like more regular walk-through rubbish collections from staff, moquette design seat covers, etc. I'm not sure how the Internet option on Lumo differs from other ECML operators, but possibly they could switch WiFi providers when the contract comes up, if there's a competitor offering a significantly better reception.

My personal experience of Lumo has been fine. It's cheap, fast, basic. If you read the information on their website before travelling, then luggage and on board catering experiences shouldn't be a surprise. Of course if you book your ticket through a different retailer you may not be given this information up front, so I can see how expectations may not be met, especially if you're using to travelling LNER for example.

 

[jon0844]

Picture of the new seat covering attached from a tweet from there Media Manager

Plot twist, they're changing them for the metal chairs in the photo...

 

[Scotrail314209]

That said, while tables do help, I don't think parents can be excused for allowing children to misbehave on this basis. Some parents allow poor behaviour even when the children are in full view.

Oh 100%.
Honestly the mess on the floor was that bad that one of the on-board ambassadors made them tidy up all their crumbs and wrappers and put them into the bin bag she was holding. But in all honestly, it shouldn't have been down to the ambassador to make sure the children cleaned up, the parents should've kept them supervised.

The carriage was pretty full, and we were delayed by 30 minutes because of a signal problem just north of Peterborough, but I think most people (myself included) just wanted to get back with no hassle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh 100%.
Honestly the mess on the floor was that bad that one of the on-board ambassadors made them tidy up all their crumbs and wrappers and put them into the bin bag she was holding. But in all honestly, it shouldn't have been down to the ambassador to make sure the children cleaned up, the parents should've kept them supervised.

Much of an issue with rubbish being played out loud on phones and tablets? It strikes me that a service aimed at younger people and families rather than business travellers is more likely to suffer this grossly irritating issue, and probably the (typically very young) staff would think it OK and likely do it themselves too?

It wasn't an issue when I tried it, but the service I was on was pretty quiet and it was a number of years back, this issue has become much greater in the recent year or two.

 

[800001]

Much of an issue with rubbish being played out loud on phones and tablets? It strikes me that a service aimed at younger people and families rather than business travellers is more likely to suffer this grossly irritating issue, and probably the (typically very young) staff would think it OK and likely do it themselves too?

It wasn't an issue when I tried it, but the service I was on was pretty quiet and it was a number of years back, this issue has become much greater in the recent year or two.

I find it doesn’t matter what train you travel on now. Wether LNER, XC, GWR, TPE etc or even if travelling first class rather than standard, the people playing videos, games with out headphones and making phone calls on loud speaker happen all the time! And some of the worst have been on ‘business’ trains where they seem to have a sense of entitlement.

On the odd occasion I’ve asked people to use headphones or turn volume down, it’s actually the people with kids or the young teens that are more obliging.

The older or ‘business’ people I find the worst!

 

[185143]

Much of an issue with rubbish being played out loud on phones and tablets? It strikes me that a service aimed at younger people and families rather than business travellers is more likely to suffer this grossly irritating issue, and probably the (typically very young) staff would think it OK and likely do it themselves too?

It wasn't an issue when I tried it, but the service I was on was pretty quiet and it was a number of years back, this issue has become much greater in the recent year or two.

I don't recall any of that when I used them from Edinburgh to Kings Cross last week.

Wasn't a particularly busy train by Lumo standards though, I was in the rear coach Southbound which was the least filled. Had a pair of seats to myself on the coast side until Newcastle where I got evicted and parked myself in an empty pair the other side. The rest of the train was probably about 80% full south of Newcastle, and my carriage about 60% full.

Found the Ambassadors very friendly and helpful, even to the extent that when I'd gone to the trolley the first time for food and a couple of drinks, they'd realised they'd overcharged me so gave me the extra beer I'd inadvertently paid for when they came through with the trolley after Newcastle.

I do think they could learn from OuiGo though with regards to luggage and even seat reservations. They charge an extra €5 for oversized luggage, €3-7 for a seat reservation depending on which seat you pick or €9 for "OuiGo Plus" which includes luggage, free seat selection and premium wifi.That being said, OuiGo have no catering AT ALL for their 4/6 hour journeys from the likes of Nice and Marseille to Paris, just a member of staff checking tickets.

 

[Watershed]

weirdly, the review is generally negative, until the final half sentence, which is generally positive

It's saying it's similar to a budget airline - a poor experience, but you'll end up choosing it anyway because it's cheapest. Not sure what is unusual about that?

 

[AlterEgo]

Can’t be good for their reputation when an established consumer organization(going back almost 60 years no less) is criticizing them

Don’t think they’ll lose any sleep. Which? is an organisation with a declining reputation and reach. Few people my age (38) or younger would give a hoot what they thought about anything.

 

[800001]

Don’t think they’ll lose any sleep. Which? is an organisation with a declining reputation and reach. Few people my age (38) or younger would give a hoot what they thought about anything.

I didn’t even know ‘Which’ still existed.

 

[londonbridge]

I’ve only used them once but can’t say I noticed or had any issues. I found my seat okay and the train was on time, that’s all I needed.

 

[fairlie]

On food, tbh, there are very few train journeys in the UK where I would rely on being able to get food on board. If I know I'll need a meal during the journey, I get something to bring with me before boarding (or when changing trains).

 

[Travelmonkey]

It's not like any of lumo's calling points* are short of eateries, I am using them next month and it will be my 1st big trip as a wheelchair user so hopefully they don't get to snarky about my luggage. I'll just have to pop to the coop or greggs before getting my train into london, or hobble through and give avanti moeny in their shop, ah still better than a voyager lol.

* not sure what is nearby in Morpeth but I'm sure there would be something,

 

[Dr Hoo]

It's not like any of lumo's calling points* are short of eateries, I am using them next month and it will be my 1st big trip as a wheelchair user so hopefully they don't get to snarky about my luggage. I'll just have to pop to the coop or greggs before getting my train into london, or hobble through and give avanti moeny in their shop, ah still better than a voyager lol.

* not sure what is nearby in Morpeth but I'm sure there would be something,

There’s a nice independent cafe on Morpeth station (southbound platform) as I realised when I made my most recent journey with Lumo.

 

[Travelmonkey]

There’s a nice independent cafe on Morpeth station (southbound platform) as I realised when I made my most recent journey with Lumo.

That's good to bear in mind, Google only suggested a small sainsburys up the hill on a quick glance.

 

[dan4291]

It's not like any of lumo's calling points* are short of eateries, I am using them next month and it will be my 1st big trip as a wheelchair user so hopefully they don't get to snarky about my luggage. I'll just have to pop to the coop or greggs before getting my train into london, or hobble through and give avanti moeny in their shop, ah still better than a voyager lol.

* not sure what is nearby in Morpeth but I'm sure there would be something,

If you've booked passenger assist then they'll be aware of your needs and will gladly help you out with boarding and your luggage.

 

[Travelmonkey]

If you've booked passenger assist then they'll be aware of your needs and will gladly help you out with boarding and your luggage.

I tend to my biggest issue is getting across from Euston

 

[Bletchleyite]

I tend to my biggest issue is getting across from Euston

In that direction I can't imagine it being much easier, even for a wheelchair user - it's a short bus ride with all buses accessible (I know some drivers could be better at using the ramp, though). If you go by Tube you probably walk/wheel almost as far underground/along to Euston Square as if you did all the way.

 

[Travelmonkey]

Euston to KGX, I've done it lots of times before on my cane but do have more anxiety as I will be using my chair this time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Euston to KGX, I've done it lots of times before on my cane but do have more anxiety as I will be using my chair this time.

As noted I would suggest making the transfer by bus if you're not able to wheel all the way. It should be fairly painless, all London buses are fully accessible, and even if one driver claims the ramp is broken another bus will be along soon. Out of the station, past the left hand side of Nando's and turn right and you'll find the stop with buses every couple of minutes. At the other end the stop is right outside the front of the station.

Not as fun the other way round as you have to cross two roads, but still not *that* bad.

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

That's good to bear in mind, Google only suggested a small sainsburys up the hill on a quick glance.

I second this - Hot drinks, sandwiches, cakes and they make a lovely soup in the winter.

 

[hibtastic]

Their MD has posted pics of their first train with the new seat coverings on LinkedIn:

After lots of hard work from our team and partners, and over many months… | Martijn Gilbert

After lots of hard work from our team and partners, and over many months, it’s been great to visit Craigentinny Train Maintenance Centre tonight to see the first of our Lumo carriages re-trimmed in our brand new seat moquette. This comfier and harder wearing fabric will be a real game changer...

www.linkedin.com

It looks great I think.

 

[800001]

Their MD has posted pics of their first train with the new seat coverings on LinkedIn:

After lots of hard work from our team and partners, and over many months… | Martijn Gilbert

After lots of hard work from our team and partners, and over many months, it’s been great to visit Craigentinny Train Maintenance Centre tonight to see the first of our Lumo carriages re-trimmed in our brand new seat moquette. This comfier and harder wearing fabric will be a real game changer...

www.linkedin.com

It looks great I think.

That does look great! Certainly looks more of a premium ‘look’ than the original blue.

 

[Taunton]

Of course lowering the seating density and adding staff would mean higher fares. That's the trouble with the concept.

I think they are contractually unable to do this because, after experience with 2/3 car services cluttering up main lines, the ORR imposed a minimum requirement that Open Access operator trains must have a minimum of 400 seats. This was felt to lead to a minimum of 6 cars, but Lumo, by adroit design, squeezing the seats up as much as possible, and discarding all provision for luggage etc, managed to get 400 seats into 5 cars, which is what they bought. So they can't take seats out without breaching this condition..

 

[duffield]

Don’t think they’ll lose any sleep. Which? is an organisation with a declining reputation and reach. Few people my age (38) or younger would give a hoot what they thought about anything.

I'm over 60 and I think of them as an "old people" thing!

 

[styles]

I think they are contractually unable to do this because, after experience with 2/3 car services cluttering up main lines, the ORR imposed a minimum requirement that Open Access operator trains must have a minimum of 400 seats. This was felt to lead to a minimum of 6 cars, but Lumo, by adroit design, squeezing the seats up as much as possible, and discarding all provision for luggage etc, managed to get 400 seats into 5 cars, which is what they bought. So they can't take seats out without breaching this condition..

Lumo's biggest downfall here, in my view, wasn't actually how compact their seating arrangements were, but that they cautiously went with only 5-car sets. Their services are very popular and they could easily add another couple of cars to each set and turn an even greater profit (and provide more seats to passengers wanting a budget London-Edinburgh/Toon option). They turned a profit after just a year in service - for all the talk in this Which? review about service, Lumo is clearly very popular.

I understand why they went with the option which scrapes through the ORR requirements for seat numbers, and appreciate it was a 'risky' venture so being conservative was the right business decision from a risk point of view, but I think they've been surprised at their success, which explains their current ECML and other line expansion plans.

I mean I somewhat begrudge complimenting open access operators, but they've done well on this one.

 

[Taunton]

Lumo's biggest downfall here, in my view, wasn't actually how compact their seating arrangements were, but that they cautiously went with only 5-car sets. Their services are very popular and they could easily add another couple of cars to each set and turn an even greater profit (and provide more seats to passengers wanting a budget London-Edinburgh/Toon option).

Not necessarily, because adding extra cars will only lead to extra revenue where the existing trains are fully sold out, which I understand is by no means all of them. This is why proposals for extra cars anywhere commonly fail the financial test, it is extra cost without commensurately extra revenue.

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

The 2308 from Lumo from Newcastle to Morpeth on a weekday is popular as it lets you have a late one in Newcastle. I’ve got it on a few occasions and it is still well loaded.

Combined with LNER looking to stop less at Morpeth, Lumo does fill a gap.

Would there not be scope to run 2 x 5 car services? They would certainly fill them.