Lumo - Qualified Driver - Newcastle (17/01/24)

[Efini92]

I'm a bit confused....

Do you work for Lumo or have I crossed wires? The driver ad says that the pension is Defined Contribution ( and seems to be DC scheme for all Lumo staff.)

"The Reward

• Defined Contribution Pension Scheme – We will pay in a minimum of 10% (5% employee contribution and 5% employer contribution) to a maximum total contribution of 20%."

Sorry no I don’t work for lumo, I was replying to @43066 as we’re both in the RPS schemes.

 

[whoosh]

It all comes down to personal choices and preferences, so I agree it is impossible to say on a forum such as this what is better or worse.

GC have 180s but only one depot does any lodging. One depot also has exclusive use of the 221s
HT have the highest salary and new trains but you would need to live in Hull
Lumo have new trains and I think the biggest route card but I suspect the most lodging

I see a choice for someone who wants a big route card, a choice for someone who wants money, and a choice for someone who does not like lodging and maybe finds the traction more interesting.

As in, "I love faults and failures. Will we make it without bursting into flames? Do I know my 'fire triangle' and what extinguisher to use? Will I earn a random amount of overtime due to the unit sitting down somewhere en route?"

180s. An on-edge excitement!


Hull Trains seem to have two lodge turns every day.


Lumo look like they have 3 London lodges and 1 Edinburgh (on weekdays, I've not really looked at the weekends).

If the thread I quoted earlier was anything to go by, I would guesstimate that one London lodge will disappear if they get their extra Up service in the morning and Down service in the evening (the middle lodge on the other thread becoming an out and back late afternoon Up and the extra evening Down, replacing the going onto lodge; and the extra morning Up and mid morning Down, replacing the coming off lodge.)

 

[tiptoptaff]

It's been very good having some actual LUMO employees coming here to dispel the rumours and put a lot of the more outlandish claims to bed

Indeed it has. Very grateful for them popping up and answering the questions that in the main, are morbid curiosity and accusatory statements, rather than genuine enquiries.

As in, "I love faults and failures. Will we make it without bursting into flames? Do I know my 'fire triangle' and what extinguisher to use? Will I earn a random amount of overtime due to the unit sitting down somewhere en route?"

180s. An on-edge excitement!

I've never had one for traction, as you can't claim it unless all the engines are running

Hull Trains seem to have two lodge turns every day.

Spoke to a HT Instructor recently. They're linked for lodging on average twice a month. So overall, not too bad

 

[theironroad]

Sorry no I don’t work for lumo, I was replying to @43066 as we’re both in the RPS schemes.

My bad, but thanks for clarifying.

 

[Evolution]

Struggling to see why you think LUMO would be a worse choice than GC or Hull Trains?

Arguably better traction than the former and the same as the latter.
Longer route card than both.
Lodging involved at all so no real difference there.
LUMO have PRIV which as far as I know makes them the only open access to offer that - plus the usual First Group travel perks.
Not sure how well pay and T&C's compare but overall seems like a pretty decent package, certainly doesn't seem to deserve the vitriol.
If I had a reason and the ability to transfer to Newcastle I'd definitely consider it....

DOO would be the big one. The latter both pay more and have guarded work without any of the "ambassador" work.

Not wishing to split hairs but 803s are very different from 802s

Anyway it's horses for courses, it sounds like RollingStock19 is enjoying life at Lumo so that's good to hear.

 

[tiptoptaff]

DOO would be the big one. The latter both pay more and have guarded work without any of the "ambassador" work.

Not wishing to split hairs but 803s are very different from 802s

Anyway it's horses for courses, it sounds like RollingStock19 is enjoying life at Lumo so that's good to hear.

Are 802s and 803s materially different? The 80x series is basically identical, bar there being no engines fitted to an 803 and the interior being different.

 

[Evolution]

Are 802s and 803s materially different? The 80x series is basically identical, bar there being no engines fitted to an 803 and the interior being different.

Well I'd say one being an EMU and the other a Bi-mode is quite significant. Probably one or two things below solebar but visually they are all much of a muchness as you say.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Well I'd say one being an EMU and the other a Bi-mode is quite significant. Probably one or two things below solebar but visually they are all much of a muchness as you say.

From a drivers POV the cabs are all identical and their performance curves are all the same as they're computer controlled (obvious exception for diesel v electric power)

 

[357]

Well I'd say one being an EMU and the other a Bi-mode is quite significant. Probably one or two things below solebar but visually they are all much of a muchness as you say.

Similar enough that Lumo was doing training on other IET units (I believe Hull but might have been TPE) before launch.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Similar enough that Lumo was doing training on other IET units (I believe Hull but might have been TPE) before launch.

Hull and TPE both came to SPM to train. But they're both 802s and the GWR sim is an 800/2 - those two classes are considered identical and a single traction on the card (same as 165s and 166s)

 

[Evolution]

From a drivers POV the cabs are all identical and their performance curves are all the same as they're computer controlled (obvious exception for diesel v electric power)

The 802s have the more powerful 940bhp engines where the 800s were 750bhp AIUI. Same engines just different engine map.

 

[tiptoptaff]

The 802s have the more powerful 940bhp engines where the 800s were 750bhp AIUI. Same engines just different engine map.

That got corrected and power output uprated on the 800s not long after introduction when it became clear they'd spend a lot of time working off the wires

(Thr technical differences between the 80x fleet is a bit off topic)

 

[Evolution]

That got corrected and power output uprated on the 800s not long after introduction when it became clear they'd spend a lot of time working off the wires

Makes sense, the extra power is required for the TPE units with the steep climbs over the pennines. They would struggle with 750bhp.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Makes sense, the extra power is required for the TPE units with the steep climbs over the pennines. They would struggle with 750bhp.

It's made a difference to fuel consumption and reliability

 

[Evolution]

It's made a difference to fuel consumption and reliability

In what sense? are the GWR units more reliable now with the extra power?

Sorry a bit of topic!

 

[craigybagel]

Well I'd say one being an EMU and the other a Bi-mode is quite significant. Probably one or two things below solebar but visually they are all much of a muchness as you say.

As far as a hypothetical driver choosing which TOC they'd like to work for, which is the context of this thread, it really isn't likely to make much difference.

 

[tiptoptaff]

As far as a hypothetical driver choosing which TOC they'd like to work for, which is the context of this thread, it really isn't likely to make much difference.

Nah from a drivers POV the cabs are identical in that sense

As far as a hypothetical driver choosing which TOC they'd like to work for, which is the context of this thread, it really isn't likely to make much difference.

In what sense? are the GWR units more reliable now with the extra power?

Sorry a bit of topic!

The uprated engines performed better on fuel and weren't being thrashed so much AIUI

 

[RollingStock19]

DOO would be the big one.

Why is this a big thing? (I am genuinely interested) The likes of Thameslink run 12 coach trains DOO with no guard, as do a lot of the other commuter/local TOCs.

I'm curious as I have only worked for Lumo, so I don't get the big deal about DCO.

 

[craigybagel]

Why is this a big thing? (I am genuinely interested) The likes of Thameslink run 12 coach trains DOO with no guard, as do a lot of the other commuter/local TOCs.

I'm curious as I have only worked for Lumo, so I don't get the big deal about DCO.

I think a lot of drivers who've worked guarded trains have no desire to be responsible for closing the doors. It's an extra opportunity to end up with a safety incident on their record - or worse.
It's also nice to know in any kind of incident you have another highly trained staff member with you to help. Granted LUMO services do (always?) have an Ambassador onboard so it's not quite the same as being entirely on your own but still, if you ever worked with a guard it might change how you feel.

 

[RollingStock19]

But doesn't having a guard also have the opportunity to impose a bit more of a risk? like being dispatched against a red?
I'm not arguing which is better, I am genuinely curious as to why it's such a big bone of contention on intercity services yet TOCs who operate around London for example. busy station, higher passenger volumes, and longer trains operate fully DOO not just DCO.

We have a set procedure, the onboard staff do play a role in this, but it does fall on me. I have the use of the cameras to monitor the whole side of that train, if its not safe to depart... I wont! I don't care how long it delays departure.. if its not safe I wont go, and thats how we're trained.

So if a dispatched train was departing and a late runner came along and runs up to the train, how do the platform staff stop the train? The 80x don't have opening windows so it's not like a guard can stick their head out, so their view is very limited meaning as a driver I now have full platform view. Im not flooring it out of the station till my arse end is off that platform and if something isn't safe, I stop!

Trap and drags etc still happen on guarded trains.

 

[craigybagel]

But doesn't having a guard also have the opportunity to impose a bit more of a risk? like being dispatched against a red?

You have two sets of eyes - therefore two chances to notice the big red signal at the end of the platform. And at the end of the day, the final decision to move the train rests with the driver who should be checking the signal just the same. That aside....

I'm not arguing which is better, I am genuinely curious as to why it's such a big bone of contention on intercity services yet TOCs who operate around London for example. busy station, higher passenger volumes, and longer trains operate fully DOO not just DCO.

We have a set procedure, the onboard staff do play a role in this, but it does fall on me. I have the use of the cameras to monitor the whole side of that train, if its not safe to depart... I wont! I don't care how long it delays departure.. if its not safe I wont go, and thats how we're trained.

So if a dispatched train was departing and a late runner came along and runs up to the train, how do the platform staff stop the train? The 80x don't have opening windows so it's not like a guard can stick their head out, so their view is very limited meaning as a driver I now have full platform view. Im not flooring it out of the station till my arse end is off that platform and if something isn't safe, I stop!

Trap and drags etc still happen on guarded trains.

.....I'm not going to go into the safety debate - if you check throughout the forum you'll see that arguement will go on forever and people will argue on both sides and never back down; it will only see the locking of what has so far been a very interesting thread.

All I'll say is that it's an extra hassle that drivers may not be keen to bring on themselves. Speaking as a former dispatcher, guard and now driver of guarded trains, I have no desire to ever have to press that blue button ever again.

 

[cakefiend]

Are there any turns where drivers do Edinburgh to London or vice versa in one go, or is there always relief at Newcastle?

 

[RollingStock19]

Are there any turns where drivers do Edinburgh to London or vice versa in one go, or is there always relief at Newcastle?

Yes and No... There is but you dont drive the whole lot. We have a London and back then you pass on the unit up to Edinburgh and lodge, then just drive back to Newcastle the next morning and youre done by 11.

We have a Drive up to Edinburgh, pass back to Newc then drive that train to London, then next afternoon 3hr shift/drive back to Newcastle.

it will only see the locking of what has so far been a very interesting thread.

Well hopefully not, I don't know about you but I am capable of listening to someone's point and understanding it, even if I don't agree with it. ... I guess some people won't and probably start a pointless debate. I was just asking because like I say, I was interested... I don't see the big deal about it and maybe that's because I don't know any different

If the DCO operation is going to put people off, fair enough its probably not the job for them. There was a lot of debate over it when we were launching especially from some of the previously qualified drivers, but everyone settled into it so maybe they would be best to comment given they have now done both.

 

[craigybagel]

Well hopefully not, I don't know about you but I am capable of listening to someone's point and understanding it, even if I don't agree with it. ... I guess some people won't and probably start a pointless debate. I was just asking because like I say, I was interested... I don't see the big deal about it and maybe that's because I don't know any different

If the DCO operation is going to put people off, fair enough its probably not the job for them. There was a lot of debate over it when we were launching especially from some of the previously qualified drivers, but everyone settled into it so maybe they would be best to comment given they have now done both.

To be fair to Lumo, their version of DOO is pretty tame compared to what the drivers around London have to deal with.

Imagine if your train was twice as long, all the Ambassadors were sacked so you were don't everything by yourself pretty much all of the time, and instead of the 6 or so dispatches you are doing every day, you're doing over 100. That's how DOO can be, and it's not the kind of life many drivers would want. Especially when you think it only has to go wrong once, and you're looking at a safety incident. Or being hauled up in court.

 

[theironroad]

Having never done DOO/DCO (except empties) I don't know any different, just as a most new to driving Lumo drivers won't know any different, it's the system you're taught, train and operate. I'd agree with Craigy bagel that not hard to see that dispatch at 2 or 3 stations over a few hours on a 5 car is going to be pretty different to a 12 car London Metro at 0800 on a Wednesday morning with commuters running around and all and sundry garments, bags etc being a candidate for a trap and drag incident.

When it goes really wrong , even 2 staff have a challenge on a train, but at least with a 2nd member of qualified staff on board, they can deal with info updates, walking the train to deal with vulnerable passengers etc leaving the driver to do what they need to (depending on issue and may also be available to passengers)

The reality is, Lumo style will be the preferred method for new OA and even new train fleets but I don't want to drift off topic.

We're all train drivers at end of the day

 

[Static65]

Can I ask how the short shifts that result from the second day returning from a lodging turn fit with the rest of the link. Does it result in non lodging turns being longer than average to make your overall weekly hours worked average out, or do you have more working days to make up this time?

If you were to pick up a lodging turn on rest day work, do you get paid for 1 day, 2 days or some other agreement?

 

[Yfg132]

Can I ask how the short shifts that result from the second day returning from a lodging turn fit with the rest of the link. Does it result in non lodging turns being longer than average to make your overall weekly hours worked average out, or do you have more working days to make up this time?

If you were to pick up a lodging turn on rest day work, do you get paid for 1 day, 2 days or some other agreement?

Good questions, also what happened if you need to use daily leave on a lodge turn job? Do you have to take both the days off?

 

[theironroad]

The lodging turn on a rest day and running into a rest day is very intriguing actually. Obvs lodging was around for a long time before Lumo, but never thought about how that works.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Are lodging turns not counted as two separate duties? Ie two working days. So can't lodge in to a RD as such, your RD would be the day after you've worked back?

 

[theironroad]

Are lodging turns not counted as two separate duties? Ie two working days. So can't lodge in to a RD as such, your RD would be the day after you've worked back?

Never done a lodge turn, so not sure. I guess if you were available for RDW on both days with the overnight lodge in between it would work but must surely be at least 2 RDW payments. Otherwise must depend on whether FD can be moved around I guess.