Lumo to increase luggage space on board their trains?

[Enthusiast]

Mrs Enthusiast and I used Lumo from Kings X to Edinburgh and return last week. The trains were full, but the experience was fine. We didn't want luxurious travel. A four hour trip is perfectly endurable in "standard" seats and those on our service were quite comfortable enough. We had a small case each (airline cabin size) which was perfectly adequate for our three night stay and it was easily accommodated overhead. I saw nobody with luggage problems.

We are by no means short of a bob or two and price was not a principle consideration. But the times suited us perfectly and LNER wanted some 40% more for trains with identical journey times and which were only 15-20 minutes away from our Lumo services. We witnessed the scrum for the slightly earlier LNER return journey at Waverley and it was not a pretty sight. In contrast, boarding on our service was a little more civilised.

Yes Lumo could do with longer trains, perhaps with more space for large luggage. But to call for its services to be discontinued shows a somewhat contemptuous approach. My (one and only) experience was perfectly OK and I don't really see how an LNER service with similar stock and identical timings would have been much different - certainly not 40% different.

 

[E100]

Obviously, drifting from topic but It would be useful for Lumo to expand their trains. Indeed I'm somewhat surprised there isn't already an action to start expanding the 5 car IET sets across TOC's where platform lengths allow. I would like to see Lumo forced by DFT into having an emergency diesel unit on any extra coaches they order. The whole premise of the electric IET's with a diesel was that they could be moved during disruption. Lumo's only have battery for hotel systems, which very much defeats the point aside from keeping the air-con on. Everything else on the ECML north of York can be moved under their own power.

In terms of them being packed. The actual personal space on Lumo is very similar but with a visually more substantial standard class seat (especially the headrest) and the lack of tables/luggage makes it feel less open when you stand up. However, once sat down there is very little difference to LNER/TPE. You will also find very few empty seats, whereas on LNER/TPE you can usually get 2 seats to yourself outside of the rush hour. The tray table is also of a better design IMO. There is also a lot more passenger turnover at Newcastle due to the lack of other intermediate stops. I.e. over half the train has got out and back on in my experience meaning it does take some time. I've noticed they appear to have added large stickers to the sides recently but I've no idea what this means for the changeover as I've not travelled with them for a few months.

 

[dk1]

Trouble is with expanding these trains beyond 5-car it then limits platform capacity. They currently operate some services that share platforms on the route. This along with multiple unit working would also not be possible. It’s a double edged sword.

 

[Energy]

Obviously, drifting from topic but It would be useful for Lumo to expand their trains. Indeed I'm somewhat surprised there isn't already an action to start expanding the 5 car IET sets across TOC's where platform lengths allow. I would like to see Lumo forced by DFT into having an emergency diesel unit on any extra coaches they order. The whole premise of the electric IET's with a diesel was that they could be moved during disruption. Lumo's only have battery for hotel systems, which very much defeats the point aside from keeping the air-con on. Everything else on the ECML north of York can be moved under their own power.

It would be difficult for the ORR to require it. ORR requirements for rolling stock are usually minimum performance (to meet the paths) and for Lumo there was seating requirements to do with the business case.

 

[Chester1]

Should we not want more of these stories?

If Lumo needs to do something it's purchasing more carriages. 5 car Intercity trains between London and Edinburgh is a waste of capacity

Obviously, drifting from topic but It would be useful for Lumo to expand their trains. Indeed I'm somewhat surprised there isn't already an action to start expanding the 5 car IET sets across TOC's where platform lengths allow. I would like to see Lumo forced by DFT into having an emergency diesel unit on any extra coaches they order. The whole premise of the electric IET's with a diesel was that they could be moved during disruption. Lumo's only have battery for hotel systems, which very much defeats the point aside from keeping the air-con on. Everything else on the ECML north of York can be moved under their own power.

There may well be planning going on behind the scenes to order additonal sets or extra middle coaches. It would be a large capital investment and there are multiple options so its not a straightforward choice. I think I read in an interview in one of the magazines that Lumo delibrately didn't order stock with back up diesel engine because it would be unnecessary weight and conflicts with their green focus. Extra units would continue the luggage issue because they would all need to be built to run as single sets when necessary. Additional units would be preferable for Roscos. It looks like passenger numbers have exceeded expectations and the shift from air to rail has been substantial so hopefully the businees case for expansion is good. Id love to see a West Coast service and there are paths at least as far as Preston i.e. from the Grand Central service that was killed by the pandemic a few weeks before its launch. Lumo might have been chose over a geographical name to keep options open.

I haven't used Lumo yet because of where I live but I did use FlixTrain on holiday and find it hard to believe they are similar. FlixTrain uses very old rolling stock and is aimed to supplement their coach network.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Someone who flies as opposed to train due to lumo incompetence and high prices and rubbish seats elsewhere I hotly dispute the claim about the modal shift from airline's. There may well be a modal shift from people driving and to end and there might have been a few passengers who wouldn't have traveled if the new low fair option wasn't available and probably a few more who like me are now getting a bit long in the tooth for lengthy coach journeys to and from Scotland but they won't retain any of these passengers if the sardine can experience with a strange luggage policy continues so I await the installation of more luggage stacks with interest and the 30 or 40 less passengers on the service to compensate for these will maybe be the difference between being able to get to the toilet through a full and standing vestibule or not

 

[Energy]

due to lumo incompetence

Incompetence in what?

and high prices

Lumos prices seem fair.

strange luggage policy continues

Lumo is pretty clear. One bag and a medium suitcase (63x41x27cm). The luggage racks overhead should be big enough for the suitcase and the bag can go under the seat.


More generous than Ryanairs single carry on policy for non priority boarding.

for these will maybe be the difference between being able to get to the toilet through a full and standing vestibule or not

Lumo is reservation only. No standing passengers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Lumo is pretty clear. One bag and a medium suitcase (63x41x27cm). The luggage racks overhead should be big enough for the suitcase and the bag can go under the seat.

Nothing clear there, because that isn't a medium suitcase, it's a small suitcase. Smaller in fact than IATA hand luggage size in one dimension, which could cause some people issues, i.e. 56x45x25cm. That's seriously disingenuous and is going to catch people out.

Lumo is reservation only. No standing passengers.

Until the all-too-frequent cancellations, at least.

It's cheap, and the seats are better than the default 80x ones. That's all that can be said about it, TBH. I'll not likely use it again now I've tried it once.

 

[crablab]

Lumo is reservation only. No standing passengers.

And how do they intend to enforce that for those with walk up, open tickets?

 

[The Middle]

Someone who flies as opposed to train due to lumo incompetence and high prices and rubbish seats elsewhere I hotly dispute the claim about the modal shift from airline's.

You may not have chosen personally to switch but you are disputing cold hard facts

"pre-Covid around 300,000 people flew from Edinburgh to London every month, with air having 65% of the market share against rail from April to August 2019. By the same period in 2022, the balance had tilted in rail’s favour, with 57% of people travelling by rail"

Taken from https://www.modernrailways.com/article/lumos-first-year-success

 

[Hadders]

Lumo is reservation only. No standing passengers.

Where is that stated? Their website says otherwise:

Seat Reservations | Book Your Seat | Lumo

Book directly through our website or App and you’ll automatically get to select a seat and we’ll also know where we can deliver food to you.

www.lumo.co.uk

When you book onto a Lumo train, you receive a seat reservation automatically. However, you can still find a seat for your journey if you join a Lumo service without a reservation. Look out for the green lights above the seats, which indicate that they are not reserved. If in doubt, ask a Customer Experience Ambassador on board for help finding a seat.

Lumo services marked as Reservations Compulsory in industry data but so are Avanti and LNER services but that doesn't means you can't travel unless you have a seat reservation.

 

[Energy]

Where is that stated? Their website says otherwise:

Seat Reservations | Book Your Seat | Lumo

Book directly through our website or App and you’ll automatically get to select a seat and we’ll also know where we can deliver food to you.

www.lumo.co.uk

Lumo services marked as Reservations Compulsory in industry data but so are Avanti and LNER services but that doesn't means you can't travel unless you have a seat reservation.

I could have worded it better, Lumo stop selling advances as they run out of reservations with a few left over for tickets with no specific operator.

 

[crablab]

Lumo stop selling advances as they run out of reservations with a few left over for tickets with no specific operator.

Sure, but irrespective of having a reservation one can travel on their services with a valid ticket. There is no mechanism to enforce "mandatory reservations" and an inability to obtain a reservation on a service marked as such should only be treated as indicative of the quality of journey you'll receive without one! You can stand in the corridor if you want.

 

[Taunton]

The luggage thing is not just presence or absence of luggage stacks. Was in a Eurostar service only today which had the overhead racks stuffed from end to end, as well as the luggage stacks quite well filled, though not full. People increasingly want to actually see their luggage, and various security announcements almost seem to be insisting on this. Among others up above were those oversize cases with four fully-protruding wheels, you know the sort, which are not only a sharp missile waiting to come down, but invariably seem to have been purchased by those with the least competence in stowing them, or bringing them back down, without smashing people's heads.

 

[david1212]

... Lumo is pretty clear. One bag and a medium suitcase (63x41x27cm) ...

Nothing clear there, because that isn't a medium suitcase, it's a small suitcase. Smaller in fact than IATA hand luggage size in one dimension, which could cause some people issues, i.e. 56x45x25cm. That's seriously disingenuous and is going to catch people out.

While not travelling by rail at all nor by air I have just measured the soft suitcase I have packed. I would not call it small. It is very close to the Lumo size as 63 x 43 x 27cm. Unless rammed full it would squeeze though 63 x 41 cm.

My small case is in the loft but I guess around 54 x 34 x 23 cm.

I would then say large up to around 75 x 52 x 28cm and mobile wardrobe at around 82 x 59 x 32cm - the largest I can quickly find.

 

[Bletchleyite]

While not travelling by rail at all nor by air I have just measured the soft suitcase I have packed. I would not call it small. It is very close to the Lumo size as 63 x 43 x 27cm. Unless rammed full it would squeeze though 63 x 41 cm.

My small case is in the loft but I guess around 54 x 34 x 23 cm.

I would then say large up to around 75 x 52 x 28cm and mobile wardrobe at around 82 x 59 x 32cm - the largest I can quickly find.

There is scope for some debate, but IATA size hand luggage is small in my book*, and it's only 2cm thicker (not considerable), 7cm longer...but 2cm thinner.

The key is that Lumo doesn't mislead, because it doesn't even allow payment for a larger bag, it's simply not permitted at all and you lose your trip and your money. Thus in my view describing that size as medium is disingenuous. Perhaps to remove the debate about "small" vs "medium" it should just say "a trolley bag or similar type of suitcase of size...", then you'll measure it.

* Those ridiculous underseat trolley cases people use on Ryanair and the likes I'd call "tiny" - my day rucksack is considerably bigger than those, and I can't see why anyone but the tiniest person can do a weekend away on one of those!

 

[Chester1]

* Those ridiculous underseat trolley cases people use on Ryanair and the likes I'd call "tiny" - my day rucksack is considerably bigger than those, and I can't see why anyone but the tiniest person can do a weekend away on one of those!

I have an underseat bag that is cube shaped with the maximum dimensions for a Ryanair and EasyJet underseat bag. There are plenty of companies that sell that type of bag. I have used them for long weekends away and its not difficult for the average guy. I can fit in a spare pair of jeans, two shirts, underwear, socks and a thin jumper. There is enough space left for my tablet, a charger, small sized toiletries and medication. I put on clean clothes shortly before I go. I wouldn't pay £20+ each way to have more clothes than that for 3-4 days away. Lumo's baggage restrictions don't sound excessive for a service designed to compete with airlines offering less cabin baggage.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have an underseat bag that is cube shaped with the maximum dimensions for a Ryanair and EasyJet underseat bag. There are plenty of companies that sell that type of bag. I have used them for long weekends away and its not difficult for the average guy. I can fit in a spare pair of jeans, two shirts, underwear, socks and a thin jumper. There is enough space left for my tablet, a charger, small sized toiletries and medication. I put on clean clothes shortly before I go. I wouldn't pay £20+ each way to have more clothes than that for 3-4 days away. Lumo's baggage restrictions don't sound excessive for a service designed to compete with airlines offering less cabin baggage.

Lumo's baggage restrictions can be whatever they like (though I do find the inability to pay extra for a larger bag quite silly and throwing away potential revenue), but I don't think they are stated anywhere near clearly enough.

At least with Ryanair it is very, very clear what is allowed. Lumo for instance show a picture of a hard sided briefcase on their website and call it a holdall!

 

[jagardner1984]

Perhaps the issue is more Lumo’s calculation of how many passengers will be carrying such a bag (presumably based on a percentage that is not 100), and their calculation of the efficiency of the passengers in using the available space.

The fact the luggage racks can fit X number of cases at a certain size does not mean they will in practice.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'm on the 10.25 off King's Cross right now and it's blindingly obvious that about 75% of the cases on board are way in excess of the size limits stated on the website...

 

[dk1]

I'm on the 10.25 off King's Cross right now and it's blindingly obvious that about 75% of the cases on board are way in excess of the size limits stated on the website...

No surprise there then.

 

[yorksrob]

It seems a bit ridiculous to have luggage limits so in variance with so many passengers needs. Such limits should be used to deter excessive luggage, if at all.

 

[Chester1]

It seems a bit ridiculous to have luggage limits so in variance with so many passengers needs. Such limits should be used to deter excessive luggage, if at all.

What is your solution? I think there are only two options:

A) ORR scraps the 400 seat minimum.
B) Lumo buys additonal middle coaches and removes some seats in other coaches to have more luggage space per passenger.

I doubt option a) we be allowed. Option b) may happen but First need to be confident of the business case for expansion and decide how far to go. A natural option would normally be just buying more 5 coach sets and doubling up some but not all services. That wouldn't solve the luggage problem but could be the best financial option.

 

[yorksrob]

What is your solution? I think there are only two options:

A) ORR scraps the 400 seat minimum.
B) Lumo buys additonal middle coaches and removes some seats in other coaches to have more luggage space per passenger.

I doubt option a) we be allowed. Option b) may happen but First need to be confident of the business case for expansion and decide how far to go. A natural option would normally be just buying more 5 coach sets and doubling up some but not all services. That wouldn't solve the luggage problem but could be the best financial option.

B should be happening to make maximum use of the ECML paths. It would also have the added benefit of keeping the works at Newton Aycliffe ticking over.

 

[swt_passenger]

What is your solution? I think there are only two options:

A) ORR scraps the 400 seat minimum.
B) Lumo buys additonal middle coaches and removes some seats in other coaches to have more luggage space per passenger.

I doubt option a) we be allowed. Option b) may happen but First need to be confident of the business case for expansion and decide how far to go. A natural option would normally be just buying more 5 coach sets and doubling up some but not all services. That wouldn't solve the luggage problem but could be the best financial option.

You missed post #9? Your option A is already in the works according to @Clarence Yard

 

[Chester1]

You missed post #9? Your option A is already in the works according to @Clarence Yard

Yes sorry I did. I would guess that it will be four seats lost per coach? Its a shame cost of expansion is prohibitive now but hopefully that will change if passenger numbers continue to grow.

 

[DanNCL]

Where is that stated? Their website says otherwise:

Seat Reservations | Book Your Seat | Lumo

Book directly through our website or App and you’ll automatically get to select a seat and we’ll also know where we can deliver food to you.

www.lumo.co.uk

Lumo services marked as Reservations Compulsory in industry data but so are Avanti and LNER services but that doesn't means you can't travel unless you have a seat reservation.

LNER are continuing to display Lumo services as reservation compulsory on the departure screens at Newcastle. This is the only mention of any ‘requirement’ to have a seat reservation I can find.
LNER aren’t showing their own services as reservation compulsory at Newcastle station, only Lumo. Don’t recall seeing the reservation compulsory message on the screens for Lumo services at Network Rail managed Edinburgh, likewise at Northern managed Morpeth.

 

[F142]

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