M1 junctions around Watford (no lights)

[AM9]

A little OT (sorry) but I drove some roadworks on the M74 in Scotland recently, and they had a signed 30mph limit on them, for about 3-4 miles. There was no work going on (well, nothing obvious) but there were average speed cameras. I‘d be interested to know what determines the temporary speed limit through roadworks, as I’ve now seen limits of 30, 40, 50, 60, and 70 (ie NSL) through motorway roadworks just thisyear.

Incidentally, 30mph on a near empty motorway is near impossible to keep to.

Then you probably remember when the M1 was 40mph average speed limit from J6-11 for 18 months in 2004-6 when the road was being made 4-lane. There were reports of thousands of speeding fines being handed out every month! It didn't bother me because I travelled from 9 to 10 only and there was only 1 camera between thoise two junctions so my average speed wouldn't be measured.

 

[Bald Rick]

Scotland just likes to be different.

The odd thing is, that further up the very same road were some more ‘intrusive’ roadworks, witha 50 limit.

Then you probably remember when the M1 was 40mph average speed limit from J6-11 for 18 months in 2004-6 when the road was being made 4-lane. There were reports of thousands of speeding fines being handed out every month! It didn't bother me because I travelled from 9 to 10 only and there was only 1 camera between thoise two junctions so my average speed wouldn't be measured.

Oh yes I remember. I also remember Highways deciding to raise it to 50!

 

[stuu]

Incidentally, 30mph on a near empty motorway is near impossible to keep to.

The variable limits around the M4/M5 junction were set to 30 once for no obvious reason, so 4 lanes of fairly empty motorway... it felt like you could get out and walk faster

 

[AM9]

The odd thing is, that further up the very same road were some more ‘intrusive’ roadworks, witha 50 limit.




Oh yes I remember. I also remember Highways deciding to raise it to 50!

I think that was after a campaign in the local rags, where those that gamed the system ignored the displayed limit, got caught and whined afterwards.

 

[DelW]

A little OT (sorry) but I drove some roadworks on the M74 in Scotland recently, and they had a signed 30mph limit on them, for about 3-4 miles. There was no work going on (well, nothing obvious) but there were average speed cameras. I‘d be interested to know what determines the temporary speed limit through roadworks, as I’ve now seen limits of 30, 40, 50, 60, and 70 (ie NSL) through motorway roadworks just thisyear.

Incidentally, 30mph on a near empty motorway is near impossible to keep to.

I'm out of touch with current reg's, but it used to be the case that the separation measures needed between the work area and the live lanes varied with the signed speed. In my day, chapter 8 of the Traffic Signs Manual was the specification for temporary traffic management (it might still be?).

So for instance a single line of cones could only be used at the lowest speed, while for maximum speed substantial barriers (e.g. concrete "New Jersey" blocks or similar) were specified.

So the speed limit signed would depend (inter alia) on how much width there was available, and how practical it was to install and remove all the equipment in the time available. It can be very time consuming and expensive to place and remove that sort of quantity of stuff over several miles of road.

 

[edwin_m]

It can be very time consuming and expensive to place and remove that sort of quantity of stuff over several miles of road.

And also hazardous to the workforce. I think that's why they tend to go for very long roadworks where not much seems to be happening over much of the length - less setting out and taking up of segregation measures.

 

[AM9]

And also hazardous to the workforce. I think that's why they tend to go for very long roadworks where not much seems to be happening over much of the length - less setting out and taking up of segregation measures.

Maybe the practice of doubling speeding penalties through live roadworks (as is done in the US) would help focus the minds of those who think that their driving is so perfect that they can make their own rules.

 

[blueberry11]

And also hazardous to the workforce. I think that's why they tend to go for very long roadworks where not much seems to be happening over much of the length - less setting out and taking up of segregation measures.

I thought that's why we increasingly do road closures instead of lane closures now. I was thinking its because of increased safety regulations. Additionally, its so that they can get the work done quicker in 8 hours rather than days of cones. But still, I remember being on the M4 outside of Reading with miles of cones (a lane 1 closure) and no workers in sight.

 

[edwin_m]

Maybe the practice of doubling speeding penalties through live roadworks (as is done in the US) would help focus the minds of those who think that their driving is so perfect that they can make their own rules.

From what I've seen (which I note excludes the M25), speed compliance is pretty good, at least on those roadworks with advertised average speed cameras.

I thought that's why we increasingly do road closures instead of lane closures now. I was thinking its because of increased safety regulations. Additionally, its so that they can get the work done quicker in 8 hours rather than days of cones. But still, I remember being on the M4 outside of Reading with miles of cones (a lane 1 closure) and no workers in sight.

It probably depends on the works and the road. Most of the M69 was closed last weekend south-westbound, but it's normally pretty empty so nobody will miss it much. With something like the M1 you're probably limited to an overnight closure unless the work is truly exceptional, so unless it can be finished in a few hours everyone has to pack up and come back the next day. It's kind of the reverse of a railway blockade.

 

[AM9]

From what I've seen (which I note excludes the M25), speed compliance is pretty good, at least on those roadworks with advertised average speed cameras. .

I have no problem with average speed enforcement although when returning from Essex nearly two weeks ago, there were streams of trucks passing the other traffic doing (probably) just over 60 mph in the outside lane.
In general as you say, compliance in average speed areas is quite good, but there are still the occasional twits that charge through other traffic only to slam on the brakes when they pass the cameras.

 

[Bald Rick]

I have no problem with average speed enforcement although when returning from Essex nearly two weeks ago, there were streams of trucks passing the other traffic doing (probably) just over 60 mph in the outside lane.
In general as you say, compliance in average speed areas is quite good, but there are still the occasional twits that charge through other traffic only to slam on the brakes when they pass the cameras.

What frustrates me in average speed camera areas through Motorway roadworks is people not payng attention and sitting in the outside lane at an indicated 3-5mph under the limit (which is really 5-8mph under the limit).

Almost as bad is those who are equally not paying attention and seemingly unable to do a near constant speed. This seems to be generally cars which have cruise control!