Mail pick-up/drop-off on the move

[grumpyxch]

I know that back in the days of steam the West Coast Mainline (London to Glasgow) had the mail system where mail bags could be picked up or dropped off at speed. Were there any other lines that had the same facility?

 

[pdeaves]

I'm sure parts of the Great Western main line had that facility, too.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

London->Dover, also, I believe.

One source has there being some 245 such lineside exchange apparatus points across the UK, immediately pre WW1.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I know that back in the days of steam the West Coast Mainline (London to Glasgow) had the mail system where mail bags could be picked up or dropped off at speed. Were there any other lines that had the same facility?

Also the Aberdeen portion of the West Coast Postal, Stonehaven was one location where I witnessed it and there were probably others on the route north from Motherwell or Law Jn (via Holytown) .

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Any GB heritage lines got such apparatus in place / in still working order?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Any GB heritage lines got such apparatus in place / in still working order?

Great Central - Loughborough Cen to Leicester North?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Thanks @Cheshire Scot. Wasn't Loughborough Central the location visited when the procedure was demonstrated on one of the various episodes of the 2016 BBC railway/social history series "Full Steam Ahead" (Peter Ginn, Ruth Goodman, Alex Langlands and others)?

 

[High Dyke]

Nene Valley Railway also has TPO equipment.

TPO

 

[UrieS15]

Liskeard on the Western, above Moorswater I was told by a friend who witnessed it regularly as a boy.

 

[181]

Didcot has another preserved example. I recall that it requires quite vigorous acceleration to get the train up to speed in the distance available.

 

[WesternLancer]

Any GB heritage lines got such apparatus in place / in still working order?

very much worth a visit to any of the places that use it in preservation on a demonstration day.

 

[grumpyxch]

London->Dover, also, I believe.

One source has there being some 245 such lineside exchange apparatus points across the UK, immediately pre WW1.

@Mcr Warrior - Do you know what that source is, and possibly where I can access it? I'd be interested in looking at it

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Mcr Warrior - Do you know what that source is, and possibly where I can access it? I'd be interested in looking at it

Try this link...

Bags, Tracks and Tragedy - The Postal Museum

Nene Valley Railway are helping restore our Bag Exchange Apparatus. See how it worked - and hear a tragic tale of its danger...

www.postalmuseum.org

Bags, Tracks and Tragedy

Our Curatorial Department have recently been working with our friends at the Nene Valley Railway to restore our trackside Bag Exchange Apparatus, which will be going on display in Spring 2017. It is an extraordinary and ingenious construction that once received and despatched heavy leather pouches, containing mailbags, with a moving Travelling Post Office (TPO).

The first transport of mail by rail took place in 1830, and it was not long before train and trackside apparatus had been introduced that meant the TPO did not have to stop when dropping off and picking up mail. A net was used to catch pouches of mail hung outside the TPO, and the train could collect bags of mail using a similar net attached to the outside of the carriage.

...A peak was probably reached in 1913 when there were 245 exchange apparatus points across the UK...

 

[Taunton]

I described childhood impressions of the Up West of England Postal at Wellington on fine summer evenings here :

Travelling Post Office - What would a rake contain, rollingstock-wise | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)

Quite how in the winter dark and rain the postmen knew exactly where they were, and at speed pushed the net significantly out of gauge at just the right point between overbridges was quite a skill.

It was also extensively used across the USA, and doubtless elsewhere, the pickup in a similar but more robust style to that used to pick up Train Orders. Deliveries were just lobbed out from an open door ...

 

[75A]

Great Central - Loughborough Cen to Leicester North?

It takes place at Quorn

 

[Gloster]

Quite how in the winter dark and rain the postmen knew exactly where they were, and at speed pushed the net significantly out of gauge at just the right point between overbridges was quite a skill.

They got used to standing in open doorways or at open windows and watching carefully. “We left X fifteen minutes ago and we seem to be running normally. There’s a station. Yes, it’s the right one as the signal box is the end of the platform. One...two...three bridges. Now out with the net.”

 

[hexagon789]

Also the Aberdeen portion of the West Coast Postal, Stonehaven was one location where I witnessed it and there were probably others on the route north from Motherwell or Law Jn (via Holytown) .

From Motherwell north to Aberdeen there was, as late as 1960, apparatus at: Coatbridge Jn, Carmuirs West Jn, Larbert, Gleneagles, Coupar Angus South, Alyth Junction, Forfar, Bridge of Dun, Dubton (North), Laurencekirk and Stonehaven

 

[John Webb]

They got used to standing in open doorways or at open windows and watching carefully. “We left X fifteen minutes ago and we seem to be running normally. There’s a station. Yes, it’s the right one as the signal box is the end of the platform. One...two...three bridges. Now out with the net.”

The technique is described in the 1930s film "Night Mail" - rail joints as well as bridges were used for locating where the net and bags needed to be put out.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

The set referred to above in post 13 is now on display at the Rail Mail Museum in London. They have the equipment for receiving and giving the mail, and there's also a mock up of the inside of a TPO.

TPO coaches can also be seen at the Gwili Railway and, I think, on the Severn Valley Railway, although neither of them are in operation. The National Railway Museum have a replica Grand Junction Railway TPO coach at York - see this link:
Replica Grand Junction Railway travelling post office | Science Museum Group Collection

 

[S&CLER]

The technique is described in the 1930s film "Night Mail" - rail joints as well as bridges were used for locating where the net and bags needed to be put out.

Yes, but be aware that the interior scenes in the sorting carriage were mocked up in a studio and not shot on the move, according to Basil Wright, a director of several 1930s documentaries, in his book The Long View.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, but be aware that the interior scenes in the sorting carriage were mocked up in a studio and not shot on the move, according to Basil Wright, a director of several 1930s documentaries, in his book The Long View.

Yes, but the sequence showing the swinging out of the bag and the counting of bridges / rail joints ("beats") would clearly have been based on real practice - and the actual swing out looks like the real things since you can see track speeding past - albeit I guess edited in with the chaps in the carriage

From 18 mins in

Watch Night Mail - BFI Player

The flagship of the GPO Film Unit's output and a cornerstone of British documentary, featuring music by Benjamin Britten and the verse of W.H. Auden.

player.bfi.org.uk

I assume everyone has actually seen this - but if not I should add it is one of the most famous documentary films in the world ever...(not just on railways)

Nice that this thread prompted me to re-watch it!

 

[John Webb]

Yes, but be aware that the interior scenes in the sorting carriage were mocked up in a studio and not shot on the move, according to Basil Wright, a director of several 1930s documentaries, in his book The Long View.

Thanks - I was aware of this from "Railways on the Screen" by John Huntley (Ian Allan, 1993) where he goes into some detail about the film.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Yes, but be aware that the interior scenes in the sorting carriage were mocked up in a studio and not shot on the move, according to Basil Wright, a director of several 1930s documentaries, in his book The Long View.

Indeed. Actual TPO workers used, but filmed at the GPO Film Unit studios in Blackheath, in South East London.

 

[Flying Phil]

As said before, the GCR has demonstrations of the mail exchange - 1 bag dropped and 1 bag picked up, that take place just to the South of the Quorn signal box at the end of the station yard. It is a great spectacle - there is a dispensation for the train to be travelling at speed (50 or 60mph?) as no passengers are carried. There are some good You Tube videos showing the action.

 

[hexagon789]

As said before, the GCR has demonstrations of the mail exchange - 1 bag dropped and 1 bag picked up, that take place just to the South of the Quorn signal box at the end of the station yard. It is a great spectacle - there is a dispensation for the train to be travelling at speed (50 or 60mph?) as no passengers are carried. There are some good You Tube videos showing the action.

I thought it was 35mph for the TPO(?), 60 being only for testing purposes.

 

[WesternLancer]

I thought it was 35mph for the TPO(?), 60 being only for testing purposes.

I'm sure I've seen it run at faster than 35mph on the GCR - or so it looked to me at least!

 

[hexagon789]

I'm sure I've seen it run at faster than 35mph on the GCR - or so it looked to me at least!

ISTR it came up in a thread, I believe on the subject of increasing speeds on heritage lines, and it was stated it was 35 for the TPO or maybe that's the minimum the catch/drop will work at and they can actually run at 60 which is the limit for non-passenger carrying steam trains.

 

[HSP 2]

As part of some of my overtime duties working for Royal Mail it was loading or unloading the Whitehaven - Huddersfield TPO. When you watch the film it looks like the bags are just getting thrown on any old how. You may have a coach that is dedicated to only Preston and Manchester, but you had to get the bags at the correct end of the coach or all of the bags ended up in a mess and there would be question asked.
The last Whitehaven - Huddersfield was worked by a black five (5407 IIRC) I did try to get a cab ride on it stating that I was Royal Mail staff (that didn't work). Hard work moving the mail bags and it could be very dirty work, not too bad at the end of a shift but not what you want at the start of your shift and you have the muck all over your uniform all day.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

The latest issue of "The Railway Observer" (the RCTS Magazine) includes a small article in the "Nostalgia Corner" (page 863) reporting that the last train on BR to use lineside postal equipment was the down North-West Postal (22.50 SO Euston to Perth) on 4th October 1971, which dropped mail at Penrith in the early hours of that morning. From the following day, trains were scheduled to stop for mail purposes. The last train to pick up while on the move was the Up West Coast Postal (19.05 Glasgow Central to Euston) on 3rd October 1971.

 

[jp4712]

The 1963 BTF film 'Thirty Million Letters' has an excellent section on mail by rail, including depicting a high speed pick up/drop off featuring a class 40. I don't think it is available for free online but it appears on a DVD and a blu-ray from the BFI shop: https://shop.bfi.org.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=thirty+million+letters

A very brief snatch, showing the train departing, is here: https://www.pond5.com/stock-footage...letters-overnight-royal-mail-train-departs-st

And the actual drop: https://www.pond5.com/stock-footage...letters-automatic-unloading-mail-moving-train

Pity it's watermarked and sound removed from the first clip - but the DVD really is well worth getting.