Major landslide between Haddenham and Bicester update thread

[Vanmanyo]

Earlier today, as anyone trying to travel on Chiltern will know, there was a quite substantial landslide on the London end track between Haddenham & Bicester.

Chiltern have currently suspended all Oxford -Marylebone services (I assume to prioritise Birmingham services?), and Birmingham - London services have been reduced to 1tph. This seems pretty substantial as they suggest the line will only reopen as two tracks by Monday "at the earliest" (suggests it may be longer). Just wondering how much this will affect Chiltern. Stock will be all over the place and potentially unable to get back to depots, with only one train allowed at a time between Bicester - Haddenham - Princess Risborough due to signalling it seems quite a major infrastructure issue so perhaps it would be wise to have updates regarding the landslide?

It'll be interesting to see when Oxford service resumed as Chiltern are clearly prioritising Birmingham services at the moment. The line could possibly be closed for the weekend with services terminated short at Bicester North/Village and then RRB to Princes Risborough?

I'm not entirely sure what will happen but it's definitely a rather large piece of infrastructural damage; especially with the issues the GWML has had recently (and could possibly have over the weekend to make matters worse for those using GWR from Oxford!)

Anyone with any other information/updates feel free to post below!

Chiltern Railways JourneyCheck - Train times and live real time delay/cancellation/disruption information.

Chiltern Railways JourneyCheck provides real time, up-to-date train times and train disruption information keeping you informed about any delays or cancellations on the network and helping you know what to do when your journey is affected. Train Cancellations, Delays, Alterations and...

www.journeycheck.com

Keep an eye out on updates from Chiltern's Journeycheck however, from experience, it's not the most reliable

 

[david1212]

Looking at Chiltern Journeycheck Oxford services are reduced to Oxford <> Bicester Village.

Google maps gives the walking distance between Bicester Village & Bicester North as a mile.

With the xx36/7 Marylebone > Birmingham services cancelled the remaining xx02 service ought to be formed of the allocated stock plus the stock allocated for the xx36/7, or if shorter the longest allowed formation for the calling pattern.

 

[sammyg901]

Oxford - Bicester Village shuttles and RRBS Bicester Village - Bicester North - Aylesbury

With ticket acceptance on GWR / XC and Avanti shouldn't be too bad long distance especially if they run the 1tph in a long formation

Stations like High Wycombe will struggle without some extra capacity, not sure what options they have to use the bay there or maybe run Aylesbury via HW trains again temporarily

 

[Vanmanyo]

Looking at Chiltern Journeycheck Oxford services are reduced to Oxford <> Bicester Village.

Google maps gives the walking distance between Bicester Village & Bicester North as a mile.

With the xx36/7 Marylebone > Birmingham services cancelled the remaining xx02 service ought to be formed of the allocated stock plus the stock allocated for the xx36/7, or if shorter the longest allowed formation for the calling pattern.

Yep that seems correct for today
Apparently Chiltern are still writing up an emergency timetable for tomorrow which seems remarkably late for passengers. As Sammy said too there is a replacement bus service.
It doesn't help the Birminghams are cancelled and that they aren't putting on more carriages. Instead of 8 carriages an hour (on average) you're now getting just 4!

https://twitter.com/chilternrailway/status/1745541267759489243?t=0LTv776I9FWK6LaMp22_2g&s=19

Looks as though Chiltern are updating the timetables overnight which is really poor of them for regular passengers who aren't expecting disruption!

Another twitter link but it seems very likely Chiltern are going to run a similar timetable as they have done tonight (https://twitter.com/chilternrailway/status/1745540930851979385?t=59ASN_SdjygVs1z3CWVYZA&s=19) with Oxford passengers either able to travel with GWR to Paddington or change at Bicester village to Bicester North. No through running it seems!

 

[Class 170101]

Given that it only happened at some point this afternoon how long do people think it should take for Chiltern to upload a timetable for tomorrow?

Control will be trying to run today's service and potentially plan tomorrow's too. Resources aren't infinite.

 

[AF91]

Looks as though Chiltern are updating the timetables overnight which is really poor of them for regular passengers who aren't expecting disruption!

What a truly ridiculous statement. Chiltern's train planners will have had to drop everything to start planning a major change to their timetable with no notice whatsoever. The fact that they've got to a position that they are able to bid a new timetable overnight is an absolute miracle and they should be applauded for their efforts in doing so.

On top of this, timetabling data for public systems is updated each night at midnight so overnight tonight would be the first opportunity for any changes to go through anyway.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Looking at JourneyCheck, amendments for today seem to have been done through Tyrell rather than ITPS.

 

[Vanmanyo]

What a truly ridiculous statement. Chiltern's train planners will have had to drop everything to start planning a major change to their timetable with no notice whatsoever. The fact that they've got to a position that they are able to bid a new timetable overnight is an absolute miracle and they should be applauded for their efforts in doing so

It's still not good for passengers though regardless of how little time the train planners have had. Today's timetable is not much different from yesterday either.

1tph Birmingham to London
1tph Oxford to Bicester Village.

What I don't understand now is how Chiltern are only running those Birmingham services with 4/5 carriages? That's a reduction of 4 carriages an hour. Services are surely going to be absolutely rammed.

Also seems as though Haddenham and Thame parkway (at least according to RTT) gets a weird 2 hour gap in service between 7am and 9am where services pass instead of stopping. I imagine this is to try and reduce overcrowding. I believe there are ticket acceptances in place with buses to Aylesbury which will make their services even busier too. Still seems a bit odd and surely annoying for the residents.
Luckily ticket acceptance is in place for pretty much every and any rail & bus operator in the area with just the casual 77 cancellations today!

 

[rower40]

Any pictures? (Not of hard-working train planners, trying to design an emergency timetable, but of the landslip itself!)

 

[Vanmanyo]

Any pictures? (Not of hard-working train planners, trying to design an emergency timetable, but of the landslip itself!)

This is from Chiltern's twitter so I assume it's network rail (no idea how you take a blurry picture but oh well)

It's nothing huge but you can clearly see why services can't run

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thermos flask for size?

 

[Vanmanyo]

Thermos flask for size?

Unironically probably

 

[BanburyBlue]

I can find nothing on the Chiltern website about which trains are running. It says 1 TPH London to Birmingham (and vice versa) but not actually saying when. If i look on NRE, all Chiltern services are showing as cancelled. Am I missing something?

And Chiltern saying ticket acceptance on CrossCountry, whereas ticket information screens at Banbury Station this morning say "Chiltern Only ticket not valid on this service" for the CrossCountry services.

 

[Watershed]

I can find nothing on the Chiltern website about which trains are running. It says 1 TPH London to Birmingham (and vice versa) but not actually saying when. If i look on NRE, all Chiltern services are showing as cancelled. Am I missing something?

And Chiltern saying ticket acceptance on CrossCountry, whereas ticket information screens at Banbury Station this morning say "Chiltern Only ticket not valid on this service" for the CrossCountry services.

That message is a standard one which hasn't been (or perhaps can't be) disabled to reflect the ticket acceptance in place today.

 

[150219]

It's still not good for passengers though regardless of how little time the train planners have had. Today's timetable is not much different from yesterday either.

1tph Birmingham to London
1tph Oxford to Bicester Village.

What I don't understand now is how Chiltern are only running those Birmingham services with 4/5 carriages? That's a reduction of 4 carriages an hour. Services are surely going to be absolutely rammed.

Also seems as though Haddenham and Thame parkway (at least according to RTT) gets a weird 2 hour gap in service between 7am and 9am where services pass instead of stopping. I imagine this is to try and reduce overcrowding. I believe there are ticket acceptances in place with buses to Aylesbury which will make their services even busier too. Still seems a bit odd and surely annoying for the residents.
Luckily ticket acceptance is in place for pretty much every and any rail & bus operator in the area with just the casual 77 cancellations today!

Any reduction in train service isn't great for passengers. That's pretty much understood.

The difficulty in coming up with a revised train service when disruption hits is that there a lot of things that have to be done in one hit. The 'things' are traincrew diagramming either side of the degraded infrastructure and unit diagramming, as well as clearing up the services in the midst of the disruption and providing a service for passengers. Then there's the unfolding investigation of what the nature of the problem is and understanding how long it takes to clear up. Once you've got that far, you establish what you can and cannot run. That leaves a sub-optimal time to prepare and disseminate. Then, you have to look at the same set of 'things' again for the revised timetable and make adjustments to suit. Day 1. It's probably a reasonable stab at running what you can. Day 2. Make a few improvements based on Day 1...and so it goes on.

The collapse of the Tesco Tunnel at Gerrards Cross went through the same process. The optimum timetable didn't appear until possibly three or four weeks after the initial collapse.

 

[Vanmanyo]

The collapse of the Tesco Tunnel at Gerrards Cross went through the same process. The optimum timetable didn't appear until possibly three or four weeks after the initial collapse.

Yes I mean that is true, this obviously isn't as large as the GC tunnel and hopefully by Tuesday we have a full service back again. I'm more questioning how Chiltern expect to run just 4 coaches an hour? It seems they aren't strengthening services even though there's plenty of free stock about now.

 

[150219]

Yes I mean that is true, this obviously isn't as large as the GC tunnel and hopefully by Tuesday we have a full service back again. I'm more questioning how Chiltern expect to run just 4 coaches an hour? It seems they aren't strengthening services even though there's plenty of free stock about now.

See above.
"Day 1. It's probably a reasonable stab at running what you can. Day 2. Make a few improvements based on Day 1...and so it goes on."

 

[Vanmanyo]

See above.
"Day 1. It's probably a reasonable stab at running what you can. Day 2. Make a few improvements based on Day 1...and so it goes on."

Are we on day 1 or day 2 though? It still seems they could be doing more perhaps. Hopefully tomorrow they can really strengthen services & sunday can be a normal Birmingham timetable?

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair if there's Avanti acceptance, anyone who knows about that is going to buy a Chiltern Only ticket then head to New St for the faster service on the cheap? The staff at Moor St may even suggest people do that. I've certainly done things like that before.

 

[Vanmanyo]

To be fair if there's Avanti acceptance, anyone who knows about that is going to buy a Chiltern Only ticket then head to New St for the faster service on the cheap?

I do wonder if Avanti will reject tickets bought after disruption started? They strike as being pretty strict about that sort of thing, especially Euston's staff..
Would be a smart choice if you want a cheap run on the WCML though!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do wonder if Avanti will reject tickets bought after disruption started? They strike as being pretty strict about that sort of thing, especially Euston's staff..
Would be a smart choice if you want a cheap run on the WCML though!

Euston's staff are a law unto themselves, but that isn't meant to be the case. (It used to be though).

If Chiltern weren't running anything actually getting a Chiltern Only ticket might be more challenging, but as they are it's easy enough.

 

[Vanmanyo]

Euston's staff are a law unto themselves, but that isn't meant to be the case. (It used to be though).

If Chiltern weren't running anything actually getting a Chiltern Only ticket might be more challenging, but as they are it's easy enough.

Why would I imagine Avanti would force people people to still take Chiltern....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why would I imagine Avanti would force people people to still take Chiltern....

I'd not put it past the clowns at Euston to try that, but at New St the gateline should open as there are valid routes from there on a route High Wycombe ticket, e.g. you can go New St-Coventry-Leamington-Marylebone. Unless they've specifically set it not to.

(I don't think Chiltern Only walk ups are generally sold, and I doubt they're selling any Advances now).

 

[Vanmanyo]

New St the gateline should open as there are valid routes from there on a route High Wycombe ticket, e.g. you can go New St-Coventry-Leamington-Marylebone. Unless they've specifically set it not to.

I would imagine the gateline reject the ticket but staff allow passengers through.

 

[30907]

It's still not good for passengers though regardless of how little time the train planners have had. Today's timetable is not much different from yesterday either.

1tph Birmingham to London
1tph Oxford to Bicester Village.

Which is about the limit of what is possible.

What I don't understand now is how Chiltern are only running those Birmingham services with 4/5 carriages? That's a reduction of 4 carriages an hour. Services are surely going to be absolutely rammed.

I notice the main peak train Up was 7

Also seems as though Haddenham and Thame parkway (at least according to RTT) gets a weird 2 hour gap in service between 7am and 9am where services pass instead of stopping. I imagine this is to try and reduce overcrowding.

Judging by the actual times, I suspect an error and stop orders issued. However, presumably there's a lot of car-borne traffic at Parkway so people may have gone elsewhere?

 

[Birmingham]

I do wonder if Avanti will reject tickets bought after disruption started?

That wouldn't be reasonable as you could walk up on, say, Saturday always having planned to travel Chiltern and to buy a flexible ticket via High Wycombe and it wouldn't be fair to have to pay double because of something that is out of your control.

 

[Vanmanyo]

I notice the main peak train Up was 7

THere's usually a peak 8 car to be fair! This morning they replaced a 6 car 68 set with 4 car 168. I'm sure that went down well!

It also seems as though every service gets delayed before entering the landslide area. Every service seems to be at least 20+ late after passing through Haddenham, I imagine there's a speed limit restriction?

 

[rob w]

THere's usually a peak 8 car to be fair! This morning they replaced a 6 car 68 set with 4 car 168. I'm sure that went down well!

It also seems as though every service gets delayed before entering the landslide area. Every service seems to be at least 20+ late after passing through Haddenham, I imagine there's a speed limit restriction?

The northbound trains have to wait for the southbound service to clear Princes Risborough so that they can cross over to P2. They are then running wrong line to Bicester South Junction where they change lines and onto Bicester North.

 

[sammyg901]

Looks like there are a couple of extra trains for the peak- 1745 to High Wycombe and 1815 to Princes Risborough. Quite strange that the morning arrivals were nearly all 4 car, I imagine they were cosy even on a Friday & that won't work mid next week!

 

[Vanmanyo]

Even worse now. Signalling fault at Gerrard's Cross/West Ruislip means the lines are completely blocked...