Making sure journey planners are accurate when replacement buses are used

[WelshBluebird]

Basically who is responsible in this scenario?

The specific example is that there are replacement buses between Cardiff and Pontypridd this weekend but there is a train service still in the journey planner (I've checked on NRE, Trainline, TfW and GWR).

Given the replacement buses in operation I am assuming this is a mistake (and TfW think it is as they have said on Twitter that replacement buses are in operation and not trains), but it means if you try to plan a journey that includes travelling between Cardiff and Pontypridd the journey planners will select the train that is still in the data as it is quicker, even though in reality it probably doesn't exist.

I assume the responsibility to make sure this data is correct is the ToC's (so in this case TfW)? Just asking because this is not the first time in recent months I've had this issue when TfW have been running replacement buses and so given that I can only assume whoever is supposed to be doing this isn't doing a good enough job (once is fine as a mistake, but multiple times it is no longer just a mistake imo). If it is TfW's responsibility what is the best way of feeding back that they need to really sort themselves out in this area and where do I go if TfW don't sort it out going forward (as part of the Metro works there's lots of replacement buses in operation so they really do need to get this right).

Also as a side question - if I did book a journey that included an itinerary for this non existent train, realistically what would happen? I assume I'd just have to deal with being "late" according to the itinerary and then have to have an argument about delay repay? Of course such a scenario could result in someone missing a connection too which could get fun with last trains etc!

 

[Watershed]

Basically who is responsible in this scenario?

The specific example is that there are replacement buses between Cardiff and Pontypridd this weekend but there is a train service still in the journey planner (I've checked on NRE, Trainline, TfW and GWR).

Given the replacement buses in operation I am assuming this is a mistake (and TfW think it is as they have said on Twitter that replacement buses are in operation and not trains), but it means if you try to plan a journey that includes travelling between Cardiff and Pontypridd the journey planners will select the train that is still in the data as it is quicker, even though in reality it probably doesn't exist.

I assume the responsibility to make sure this data is correct is the ToC's (so in this case TfW)? Just asking because this is not the first time in recent months I've had this issue when TfW have been running replacement buses and so given that I can only assume whoever is supposed to be doing this isn't doing a good enough job (once is fine as a mistake, but multiple times it is no longer just a mistake imo). If it is TfW's responsibility what is the best way of feeding back that they need to really sort themselves out in this area and where do I go if TfW don't sort it out going forward (as part of the Metro works there's lots of replacement buses in operation so they really do need to get this right).

From a practical point of view, some of these issues are down to the TOC errors, others are down to NR errors.

I note in this particular case that rail replacement buses were only uploaded yesterday, whereas most trains were published as starting/terminating at Pontypridd back on 6 May. But some trains are still shown as running through to Cardiff because their 'overlays' (i.e. temporary changes) were cancelled back on 15 May. Which suggests that it's TfW who are at fault for having bid buses late (as usually they would be included with the bid to amend services for engineering works), but either TfW or NR's error for cancelling the overlays.

Regardless of the practicalities, TfW are ultimately responsible for what is or isn't advertised in journey planners as being operated by them. If NR processing delays are causing inaccurate information to remain in the public domain, it's TfW who are liable for that, as far as the passenger is concerned.

Unfortunately the importance of ensuring that accurate information is in the public domain seems not to register with the rail industry. Anything inaccurate is dismissed as "a one-off data problem" or, even more inaccurately, "Trainline being Trainline".

Also as a side question - if I did book a journey that included an itinerary for this non existent train, realistically what would happen? I assume I'd just have to deal with being "late" according to the itinerary and then have to have an argument about delay repay? Of course such a scenario could result in someone missing a connection too which could get fun with last trains etc!

In practice, there will just be the buses. And as you say, there could well be ensuing arguments about Delay Repay or missing last trains. I would try to avoid getting into that situation in the first place, but certainly for the latter situation, the itinerary you're offered when buying your ticket is ultimately what matters, not a timetable that is subsequently amended (at 4 days' notice, without anyone telling you).

With Delay Repay you may have more of an argument on your hands. I've previously gone over some of the issues and legal arguments in other threads, but in brief - the NRCoT and most TOCs' Passenger Charters set out the rail industry's position that compensation is based on the timetable as at 10pm the night before. Obviously that leads to some ludicrous outcomes, as in this case, and accordingly I have severe doubts over the enforceability of that clause in the context of a consumer contract.

What is clearer is the entitlement to compensation under Article 17 of the PRO, although this is at a much lower percentage, and with a much higher delay threshold, than the NRCoT minima, let alone most Delay Repay schemes. But the TOCs cannot insert their own definition of "published timetable" into this legislation and so it takes its natural meaning - which would certainly not be "whatever we say we fancy running, 2-26 hours before the train leaves"...