Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[HowardGWR]

There was never any plans to begin with! NR had already shown their cards for the forseeable future with the NW electrification plans. To be honest, if it was possible, you think RT/NR would of build Wavertree Tech Park Station and sold off the land for the Tech Park in the first instance if there was ever plans to reinstate 4 track? Answers on a fifty pound note please!

My answer is 'could you run the spelling and grammar checker please' before posting? This posting truly hurts my poor old English eyes.

 

[Whistler40145]

Does anyone know why Network Rail are dragging their heels over completing the missing section of OHLE at Glazebury?

 

[DJH1971]

Does anyone know why Network Rail are dragging their heels over completing the missing section of OHLE at Glazebury?

Surely this wouldn't take long to do on a wiring run.

I understand the wires from Castlefield Junction to Parkside Junction can't be juiced until this gap is finished.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Does anyone know why Network Rail are dragging their heels over completing the missing section of OHLE at Glazebury?

Lots of mobile platform gear was sitting around Patricroft station on Monday.
I imagine the resource available is busy fitting out the fiddly bits around there.
You can still see unconnected droppers at various points on the route west of Eccles.
The platform loop wiring at Eccles is not finished either, but I'm not sure if that is critical.

 

[LWB]

Sorry to put the dampers on the enthusiasm for rail electrification, but these links are worth reading:-

http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/library/downloads/emf-property-04-2013-01.pdf


http://www.greenprophet.com/2012/12/israel-electric-train-radiation/

From the same site (the second one)!
http://www.greenprophet.com/2013/04/should-women-stop-wearing-bra/

Certainly a website with a broadly based topic coverage:roll:

 

[snowball]

From the same site (the second one)!
http://www.greenprophet.com/2013/04/should-women-stop-wearing-bra/

Has forum member 34D seen that?

Seriously though, I heard of a doctor making a similar recommendation some years ago.

 

[steverailer]

Does anyone know why Network Rail are dragging their heels over completing the missing section of OHLE at Glazebury?

Problems with the wiring train, short possessions, lack of planning and organisation, and any other reason you can imagine lol
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Surely this wouldn't take long to do on a wiring run.

I understand the wires from Castlefield Junction to Parkside Junction can't be juiced until this gap is finished.

Will need alot more than the gap wiring for the juice to be turned on. Still alot of wire sat in rollers and not correct fittings, alot of ATF and earth wire to be properly joined and landed into correct fittings.

Short possessions and lack of materials and planning are major issues at the minute. There are alot of crews working to get it sorted, but it isn't going to be a quick job
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Lots of mobile platform gear was sitting around Patricroft station on Monday.
I imagine the resource available is busy fitting out the fiddly bits around there.
You can still see unconnected droppers at various points on the route west of Eccles.
The platform loop wiring at Eccles is not finished either, but I'm not sure if that is critical.

FWIU crews at Particroft are working westwards from Eccles registering and fitting the corret equipment. They were working east from Kenyon, but have had to stop because of the wiring train being in for the gap at Glazebury.

 

[8A Rail]

My answer is 'could you run the spelling and grammar checker please' before posting? This posting truly hurts my poor old English eyes.

Well tough!! You still manage to understand what I had written though!

 

[Corporal Jones]

Lots of mobile platform gear was sitting around Patricroft station on Monday.
I imagine the resource available is busy fitting out the fiddly bits around there.
You can still see unconnected droppers at various points on the route west of Eccles.
The platform loop wiring at Eccles is not finished either, but I'm not sure if that is critical.

There were still unconnected droppers at Patricroft yesterday (25/9/13).

 

[TOCDriver]

Well tough!! You still manage to understand what I had written though!

hehehe Nice retort!

 

[8A Rail]

For those members who have had an interest in the layout of the original 4 track formation around Wavertree Technology Park Station, have a gander at this nice image of 46211 "Queen Maud" -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossxpres/9955637844/ were it is travelling on the fast line heading east where the station is now. In the image, the current lines are the ones to the right of the train and you may now understand why reinstating the other two (fast) tracks is almost impossible. HTH.

 

[DJH1971]

Went into Liverpool today and can now also confirm that some line side excavation work seems to have been recently carried out to the east of Broad Green before Roby, and also to the east of Rainhill.

Looks like mast bases are about to edge more eastwards more.

 

[Wavertreelad]

For those members who have had an interest in the layout of the original 4 track formation around Wavertree Technology Park Station, have a gander at this nice image of 46211 "Queen Maud" -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossxpres/9955637844/ were it is travelling on the fast line heading east where the station is now. In the image, the current lines are the ones to the right of the train and you may now understand why reinstating the other two (fast) tracks is almost impossible. HTH.

I still wonder whether in the years to come if the loss of four tracking from Broadgreen will become a major issue and that steps will be taken to remedy the situation? I still think there is sufficient clearance to get at least one track through Wavertree Tech Station on the southern side as the picture below shows

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e90/michaeldelz/bridgeolivemount-1.jpg

This picture shows both the old Circular Line bridge and the Rathbone Road bridge in the background. The former was demolished to make way for Wavertree Tech Station and the original alignment can clearly be seen. The picture below appears to be taken from the site of the demolished bridge looking west and clearly shows the alignment of the two fast tracks which by now had been truncated to form the coal depot sidings.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/feversham/5517159226/in/faves-78462203@N08/

The Edge Hill end of the coal sidings was originally the point were the London lines diverged to the south under the now disused flyover in the picture below.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...ttach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=208546

More by accident than design I came across the original plans for the end of the
M62 at http://www.cbrd.co.uk/histories/lim/m62.shtml

The original plan shows the straight alignment of the motorway which would have crossed the Chat Moss line between Broadgreen Station and Queens Drive before running alongside the north side of the railway to Mill Lane and then following the path of the closed Edge Hill Gridiron. Had this plan been built, Wavertree Tech Park Station could not have been built on the present site, and in all probability it would have been possible to retain 4 tracks throughout. The second plan would have allowed the station to be built but would have resulted in some major civil works at Rathbone Road and considerable congestion on the local road network. I believe there was a later plan to build the motor over the top of the Chat Moss lines but have never seen any plans to confirm this, perhaps because nobody could decide the routing from Edge Hill to the city centre.

 

[8A Rail]

I still wonder whether in the years to come if the loss of four tracking from Broadgreen will become a major issue and that steps will be taken to remedy the situation?

A simple answer is no. The new improved layout for Roby Junction - Huyton Junction will partly addressed this issue anyway. And with the aid of technology better management of the Broadgreen - Edge Hill section will be employed. Also there is still capacity on that section for extra trains (including freight) along with increase capacity of the trains themselves. (i.e. from 2 car to 3/4/6/8 car units) to take of any possible increase of passengers

This picture shows both the old Circular Line bridge and the Rathbone Road bridge in the background. The former was demolished to make way for Wavertree Tech Station and the original alignment can clearly be seen. The picture below appears to be taken from the site of the demolished bridge looking west and clearly shows the alignment of the two fast tracks which by now had been truncated to form the coal depot sidings.

Which is fast tracks as per "Queen Maud" image. You clearly are overlooking the fact that there is an embankment build on the former two fast tracks which support the land / buildings on the Technology Park! The Technology Park is not going anywhere is the foreseeabe future either.

The Edge Hill end of the coal sidings was originally the point were the London lines diverged to the south under the now disused flyover in the picture below.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...ttach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=208546

Link not available unless you are a member of the forum! But however, I know what you are referring too though. The flyover could not be reinstated either because of the Technology Park and also the current Stephenson Way Bridge.

More by accident than design I came across the original plans for the end of the
M62 at http://www.cbrd.co.uk/histories/lim/m62.shtml

The original plan shows the straight alignment of the motorway which would have crossed the Chat Moss line between Broadgreen Station and Queens Drive before running alongside the north side of the railway to Mill Lane and then following the path of the closed Edge Hill Gridiron. Had this plan been built, Wavertree Tech Park Station could not have been built on the present site, and in all probability it would have been possible to retain 4 tracks throughout. The second plan would have allowed the station to be built but would have resulted in some major civil works at Rathbone Road and considerable congestion on the local road network. I believe there was a later plan to build the motor over the top of the Chat Moss lines but have never seen any plans to confirm this, perhaps because nobody could decide the routing from Edge Hill to the city centre.

And you still have the present layout approaching Queens Drive also other than the existing junction would be modified to take account of the Motorway going into Liverpool. Likewise, when the M62 was being built (in the 70's), it had already been decided IF the motorway was going into Liverpool, it would be on the existing Edge Lane corridor.

I accept you are interested in this particular issue but it is an issue you are banging your head against a brick wall I'm afraid. Sorry.

 

[Wavertreelad]

A simple answer is no. The new improved layout for Roby Junction - Huyton Junction will partly addressed this issue anyway. And with the aid of technology better management of the Broadgreen - Edge Hill section will be employed. Also there is still capacity on that section for extra trains (including freight) along with increase capacity of the trains themselves. (i.e. from 2 car to 3/4/6/8 car units) to take of any possible increase of passengers

Which is fast tracks as per "Queen Maud" image. You clearly are overlooking the fact that there is an embankment build on the former two fast tracks which support the land / buildings on the Technology Park! The Technology Park is not going anywhere is the foreseeabe future either.

Link not available unless you are a member of the forum! But however, I know what you are referring too though. The flyover could not be reinstated either because of the Technology Park and also the current Stephenson Way Bridge.

And you still have the present layout approaching Queens Drive also other than the existing junction would be modified to take account of the Motorway going into Liverpool. Likewise, when the M62 was being built (in the 70's), it had already been decided IF the motorway was going into Liverpool, it would be on the existing Edge Lane corridor.

I accept you are interested in this particular issue but it is an issue you are banging your head against a brick wall I'm afraid. Sorry.

I totally agree four tracking is very unlikely to happen in the next 10 to 20 years but who knows what may happen beyond then and hence the question. However, should Merseytravel ever decide to extend the Merseyrail system through to Edge Hill then the position might change, only time will tell.

Queen Maud is on the original fast tracks which were the ones that later formed the coal sidings as perhaps the following photos show, including the missing the photo which I have uploaded.

In this link http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e90/michaeldelz/bridgeolivemount-1.jpg Wavertree Tech station occupies the site between Rathbone Road Bridge in the background and the camera. The embankments on which the Technology Park as far as I know were never filled in, but may have been strengthened, like in Olive Mount Cutting when the site of the old Mabel Fletcher Technical College was being prepared for the new housing development. Unfortunately the amount of vegetation on present banks make it almost impossible to verify the extent of any changes but when you look from the platform east towards Rathbone Road bridge it is clear the original alignment would have been further back than it currently appears to be.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/happyraildays/6160004875/ shows the layout from the Gridiron side of the cutting before the Technology Park was built and shows the original banks in the cutting together with the overhead catenary spanning the four tracks. The picture must have been taken late 60’s or early 70’s before the two far lines were truncated at the Edge Hill end as shown in the earlier photograph.

This picture from 1985 in http://www.flickr.com/photos/feversham/5517159226/in/faves-78462203@N08/ shows all four lines, but by now the two fast lines have been converted to the coal yard and the overhead catenary removed. Most of these masts still remain in place today.

On the M62 I can confirm attending a meeting in 1968 at the Mabel Fletcher College in which the plans in my earlier post were on display. At this stage, the motorway would have remained straight at Broadgreen and followed the railway line, which is why the buildings between the current bridge and Queens Drive were demolished. Some other properties on the proposed route were also boarded up or demolished (four on Mill Lane alone). The alignment was subsequently changed to create the existing arrangement when it became apparent the funds for the scheme which included further urban motorways would not be available. As a result the M62 was completed to Tarbuck in 1972 with work starting on building the final section to Queens Drive in 1973 and completed in 1976.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

NR/BB have made some good progress in the past week on the wiring gap at Glazebury.
This was a good mile a week ago, but there are now catenary/contact wires in place on the Down (westbound) line throughout, and on all but 500m or so on the Up, through Glazebury itself.
One more length should do it.
Then there's just the fiddly bits to do...

 

[DJH1971]

NR/BB have made some good progress in the past week on the wiring gap at Glazebury.
This was a good mile a week ago, but there are now catenary/contact wires in place on the Down (westbound) line throughout, and on all but 500m or so on the Up, through Glazebury itself.
One more length should do it.
Then there's just the fiddly bits to do...

At least it's better than nothing.

 

[SteveRainhill]

Network Rail consultation on work at Huyton is underway (caused by the need to acquire land):

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/improvements/northern-hub/projects/huyton-roby/

Incidentally, Knowsley Council's Planning public access system here has plans of the station and platform designs. Search Huyton Station and Roby Station.

 

[8A Rail]

Network Rail consultation on work at Huyton is underway (caused by the need to acquire land):

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/improvements/northern-hub/projects/huyton-roby/

Incidentally, Knowsley Council's Planning public access system here has plans of the station and platform designs. Search Huyton Station and Roby Station.

Interesting but unable to find anything on the Council site relating to Huyton and Roby Stations - have you the direct links please?

 

[swt_passenger]

Interesting but unable to find anything on the Council site relating to Huyton and Roby Stations - have you the direct links please?

Planning websites nearly always time out and/or personalise the links. Providing direct urls to an application once you've found it nearly always fails.

Try going into their 'public access system' from the linked page, then the 'advanced search' tab, and enter the station name in the 'description keyword' box.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The wiring gap at Glazebury has finally been plugged in the past few days with catenary and contact wires in place on the Up line.
Continuous wiring on both lines throughout the Phase 1 route now.
Still plenty of tidying up of the OHL to do between Eccles and Glazebury, power up maybe by the end of the month.
Some more foundations have been placed on the westbound line in Olive Mount cutting, marching slowly towards Broad Green.

 

[DJH1971]

The wiring gap at Glazebury has finally been plugged in the past few days with catenary and contact wires in place on the Up line.
Continuous wiring on both lines throughout the Phase 1 route now.
Still plenty of tidying up of the OHL to do between Eccles and Glazebury, power up maybe by the end of the month.
Some more foundations have been placed on the westbound line in Olive Mount cutting, marching slowly towards Broad Green.

Crack open the bubbly!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Crack open the bubbly!

Agreed - each milestone is welcome. I will open my bubbly when the first mast appears Preston -Blackpool line.

 

[DJH1971]

The wiring gap at Glazebury has finally been plugged in the past few days with catenary and contact wires in place on the Up line.
Continuous wiring on both lines throughout the Phase 1 route now.
Still plenty of tidying up of the OHL to do between Eccles and Glazebury, power up maybe by the end of the month.
Some more foundations have been placed on the westbound line in Olive Mount cutting, marching slowly towards Broad Green.

And more evidence of excavation work between Rainhill and Lea Green. which I saw today.

 

[Ploughman]

How it used to be done.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua2XH9rspW8
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg8G4ncRpYQ

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

How it used to be done.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua2XH9rspW8
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg8G4ncRpYQ

Fascinating. Don't fancy wiring in the fells in the snow!
I noticed in the first film (WCML early 1970s?) that the wires were from BICC, probably Helsby.
I wonder where the wire comes from these days?

This article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Insulated_Callender's_Cables
says that BICC sold off its cable business and then renamed itself Balfour Beatty in 2000 which was one of their then subsidiaries.
BB is the prime contractor for today's NW electrification, which brings us full circle I suppose.

 

[DJH1971]

Fascinating. Don't fancy wiring in the fells in the snow!
I noticed in the first film (WCML early 1970s?) that the wires were from BICC, probably Helsby.
I wonder where the wire comes from these days?

This article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Insulated_Callender's_Cables
says that BICC sold off its cable business and then renamed itself Balfour Beatty in 2000 which was one of their then subsidiaries.
BB is the prime contractor for today's NW electrification, which brings us full circle I suppose.

Funnily enough my dad worked for BICC (also BICC Burndy) until retirement in 2002, but worked at Lea Green then Prescot.

I think he visited Helsby a couple of times.

 

[DXMachina]

How it used to be done.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua2XH9rspW8
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg8G4ncRpYQ

I love the fact that there were men in suits and ties on top of the moving wiring train. Different world.... Was less impressed by the guy up a ladder propped on top of a wheeled trolley against a catenary structure though!

 

[snowball]

Ardwick depot electrification opened

https://plus.google.com/+transpennineexpress/posts/9ZLWCDctJDQ

The electrification of Manchester’s Ardwick train maintenance facility is due to be completed as part of a £60million investment in new electric trains and an improved timetable. The upgrade will have a significant impact on the region and greatly improve connections between major towns and cities in the North of England.

The work at Siemen’s Ardwick facility in central Manchester includes a building extension to accommodate the current diesel trains, and electrification upgrades in order to house and service a fleet of new electric trains that are being introduced by us.

All forty new carriages, which are due to start coming into service from the end of 2013, will be maintained at Ardwick and will deliver an 80 per cent increase on the route between Manchester and Scotland, helping boost the economy, whilst providing passengers with quicker, cleaner and more frequent services. The additional space generated by the trains’ introduction will also benefit the wider northern rail network by increasing overall passenger capacity by 30 per cent.

The train depot at Ardwick was officially switched on by Lucy Powell MP of Manchester Central, at a launch ceremony on Friday 27th September, and was also attended by representatives from Transport for Greater Manchester (TFGM), Rail North, Travel Watch Northwest and the Association of Train Operators.

Siemens, which have designed and built the 10 class 350/4s trains, currently maintain FTPE's existing fleet of 51 class 185 diesel trains and will be providing engineering support for the new trains from December. Benefiting the environment, the new electric trains also provide a 35 per cent reduction in carbon emissions.

Pictures at the link above

 

[Gadfly]

I love the fact that there were men in suits and ties on top of the moving wiring train. Different world.... Was less impressed by the guy up a ladder propped on top of a wheeled trolley against a catenary structure though!

Thanks for the the links - fascinating!