Actually still from Roby Junction - pretty well clear from this morning's observation.
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Manchester - Liverpool Electrification
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LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Also nothing east of Collins Green to Earlestown.
On the other hand, steelwork and bits are advancing steadily in other areas.
Masts up on St Helens Jn and Central platforms for instance, and round the final curve to Springs Branch.
PDG1949
Member
This letter re 'second hand' rolling stock appeared in this weeks' edition of the St. Helens Star newspaper.
http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/yoursay/letters/11394086.We_will_get_the_south_s_cast_off_trains/
I might be wrong, but doesn't this seem somewhat at variance to what we have been currently been expected to believe up to now (unfortunately I am yet to lay my hands on a copy of the Rail magazine in question) ?
http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/yoursay/letters/11394086.We_will_get_the_south_s_cast_off_trains/
I might be wrong, but doesn't this seem somewhat at variance to what we have been currently been expected to believe up to now (unfortunately I am yet to lay my hands on a copy of the Rail magazine in question) ?
That letter doesn't really make alot of sense. What it says in the Rail piece is about various trains being released due to the gradual influx of 319s which we know already.
There wont be any "type 322" trains being seen over here for a while but perhaps we will see more fleet mix once the TPE and Calder Valley have the wires strung
. Id love to catch a 333 across the Pennines thats for sure!!
Northern and next operator are going to be working very hard on various fare policies in the next franchise, yes the fares are going to go up but if that means access to brand new trains so be it.
There wont be any "type 322" trains being seen over here for a while but perhaps we will see more fleet mix once the TPE and Calder Valley have the wires strung
. Id love to catch a 333 across the Pennines thats for sure!!Northern and next operator are going to be working very hard on various fare policies in the next franchise, yes the fares are going to go up but if that means access to brand new trains so be it.
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That letter doesn't really make alot of sense. What it says in the Rail piece is about various trains being released due to the gradual influx of 319s which we know already.
There wont be any "type 322" trains being seen over here for a while but perhaps we will see more fleet mix once the TPE and Calder Valley have the wires strung
Northern and next operator are going to be working very hard on various fare policies in the next franchise, yes the fares are going to go up but if that means access to brand new trains so be it.
5x322 units were cascaded from Edinburgh to West Yorkshire to replace DMUs on two peak time diagrams under the wires. I see no reason why 3x 322s can't be transferred to Manchester-Liverpool services until May 2015.
Typical local rag drivel.
The article should really be directed at "our North West MPs" who could then tell them the whole story and justify their role, - maybe. They would then know how gradual gradual is.
Then they throw in a pity the poor motorist bit with 2 errors:
who is the "EEC"?
and
"part of the billions we give each year to the EU", - who is this 'we', if they mean St Helens then they must be a lot better off than they admit!
Its easy to see why local rags are in decline even when they are forced through letterboxes whether they are wanted or not.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Well, there is a General Election now due within the next year, which they do say is a long time in politics and one that always brings out promises from prospective MP's to entail them (hopefully) to actually listen to the actual needs of their local electorate rather than the "feathering of their own particular nests".
Bantamzen
Established Member
That letter doesn't really make alot of sense. What it says in the Rail piece is about various trains being released due to the gradual influx of 319s which we know already.
There wont be any "type 322" trains being seen over here for a while but perhaps we will see more fleet mix once the TPE and Calder Valley have the wires strung
Northern and next operator are going to be working very hard on various fare policies in the next franchise, yes the fares are going to go up but if that means access to brand new trains so be it.
Hey, we're not giving up our 333s to those blumming Lancashire folk over the hills!!
deltic08 said:
Well the 322s are starting to have new DDA toilets & a repaint, so not all 5 are always available & I assume at some point the 319s will get at least the DDA loos so in the short term the 322s might still be needed to cover their diagrams if/when the 319s go in. And having the 322s is a bit of a blessing, as 3x 319s did sometimes struggle with reliability meaning that DMUs (usually either 3 car 144s or 3 car / 2x2 car 158s) had to cover, which almost always meant them falling behind on the timings on the Leeds - Doncaster route.
3x 321/9s that'll be
My understanding is not only do the 321/9s suffer reliabilitywise, principally due to the fact they were diagrammed so intensively, but the usage on the 333s meant that there almost always wasn't a hot spare. Its not as simple as to suggest 3x 322s could be surplus.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
3x 321/9s that'll be
My understanding is not only do the 321/9s suffer reliabilitywise, principally due to the fact they were diagrammed so intensively, but the usage on the 333s meant that there almost always wasn't a hot spare. Its not as simple as to suggest 3x 322s could be surplus.
Nevertheless, Northern should redeploy its EMUs to best effect.
There's no reason why 323s could not be used out of Liverpool in the off-peak before sufficient 319s come available.
Resources east and west of the Pennines should also be shared if it produces a better service.
WatcherZero
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Doesnt that come down to increased driver training costs? Having seperate fleets means less certification required. If they were all the same class then that would be a different story.
Bantamzen
Established Member
3x 321/9s that'll be
My understanding is not only do the 321/9s suffer reliabilitywise, principally due to the fact they were diagrammed so intensively, but the usage on the 333s meant that there almost always wasn't a hot spare. Its not as simple as to suggest 3x 322s could be surplus.
Ooops, you're right I really ought to better proof read my posts...
And indeed, in the 5 years I commuted from South Elmsall, i think I saw a 333 working the route just twice, as they do get worked quite hard themselves on the Aire & Wharfe routes. So the <ahem> 321s
did struggle with reliability quite a lot, as two would be working most of the day with the third operating some Leeds - Doncaster peaks & a couple of runs on the Aire & Wharfe as well. DMU replacements were a regular sight along the Wakefield line, and were very rarely able to keep the timings, especially on the rare occasions that a 142 bounced into Elsmall for the morning peaks.... 
LDECRexile
Established Member
I did a Lime St-Wigan NW-Roby-Man Vic-Lime St tour today, observations below:
Headlines:
1. Now down to c120 mastless bases over the whole project
2. Stretch of Return Wire up between Eccleston Park and Thatto Heath
3. Significant signalling progress North of St Helens Central
4. Progress on lifts at Roby.
1. Mastless Bases: I counted a net loss of 70 mastless bases since 21st July. "Net" loss because some new bases have been (or are being) installed, mainly 1a) between Roby Junction and Roby Station between tracks 2 and 3 and 1b) between Huyton Station and Huyton Junction South of track 1; therefore more than 70 masts have been erected. I reckon the total mastless bases is 120. The significant stretches where I can't see many bases are 1c) North of track 3 between Roby Junction and half way to the M57 on the Wigan line, 1d) Rainhill Station, 1e) Earlestown Station platform 1. Also add 1f) the three motorway bridges, Carr Mill Viaduct, the East Lancs Rd bridge and Sankey Viaduct. It is possible that some of these gaps are "non-gaps", eg the first half mile on the North side of the Wigan Branch may be served by TTCs from the opposite side. (TTCs are Twin Track Cantilevers, or double gallows as I know them!) Finally, 1g) there are no mastless bases between Rainhill and St Helens Junction, making it seem ripe for hanging more wires either side of the Return Wires already in place for part of the distance between Rainhill and Lea Green.
2. A very short stretch of return wire has been erected part way between Eccleston Park and Thatto Heath. It caught me by surprise and was gone again in a flash, I reckon it is two masts long.
3. On my last two visits a lot of signalling activity was going on North of St Helens Central, with lots of Orangemen, horns sounding and signal gubbins being fettled, with a goodly number of half signals in place. Today I saw only two groups of workmen, one of which may not have been signallers. I saw no half signals, all new ones were either in place or in place but bagged or in place but lying down. A knock-on benefit was a reduction of the number of missing masts in the sinuous track between St Helens Central and Carr Mill Viaduct.
4. Although no lifts are yet working at Roby the mechanism of each is now part-installed with work in progress.
Other:
5. The Roby Jct-Huyon Jct 4th track is to be laid soon (it was scheduled for last Sunday, apparently, but was postponed) but not connected at Roby Junction or beyond Huyton, of course, beuuase the 4th trackbed is nowhere near ready there.
6. Still no seats on Roby Platform 2/3, including in the shelter.
7. The recent rain has exposed a leak in the stairway to Roby Platform 2/3. This is known and will be remedied before handover.
8. I identified six mastless bases between Manchester Victoria and Salford Central, at least three others having been topped with masts since my last visit. West of Salford Central most masts have fixings attached seemingly almost ready for wires.
9. Although I can't give numbers I have a very clear impression across the whole project of there being far more metalwork in the air, with few bare masts, even where there are no wires yet.
Headlines:
1. Now down to c120 mastless bases over the whole project
2. Stretch of Return Wire up between Eccleston Park and Thatto Heath
3. Significant signalling progress North of St Helens Central
4. Progress on lifts at Roby.
1. Mastless Bases: I counted a net loss of 70 mastless bases since 21st July. "Net" loss because some new bases have been (or are being) installed, mainly 1a) between Roby Junction and Roby Station between tracks 2 and 3 and 1b) between Huyton Station and Huyton Junction South of track 1; therefore more than 70 masts have been erected. I reckon the total mastless bases is 120. The significant stretches where I can't see many bases are 1c) North of track 3 between Roby Junction and half way to the M57 on the Wigan line, 1d) Rainhill Station, 1e) Earlestown Station platform 1. Also add 1f) the three motorway bridges, Carr Mill Viaduct, the East Lancs Rd bridge and Sankey Viaduct. It is possible that some of these gaps are "non-gaps", eg the first half mile on the North side of the Wigan Branch may be served by TTCs from the opposite side. (TTCs are Twin Track Cantilevers, or double gallows as I know them!) Finally, 1g) there are no mastless bases between Rainhill and St Helens Junction, making it seem ripe for hanging more wires either side of the Return Wires already in place for part of the distance between Rainhill and Lea Green.
2. A very short stretch of return wire has been erected part way between Eccleston Park and Thatto Heath. It caught me by surprise and was gone again in a flash, I reckon it is two masts long.
3. On my last two visits a lot of signalling activity was going on North of St Helens Central, with lots of Orangemen, horns sounding and signal gubbins being fettled, with a goodly number of half signals in place. Today I saw only two groups of workmen, one of which may not have been signallers. I saw no half signals, all new ones were either in place or in place but bagged or in place but lying down. A knock-on benefit was a reduction of the number of missing masts in the sinuous track between St Helens Central and Carr Mill Viaduct.
4. Although no lifts are yet working at Roby the mechanism of each is now part-installed with work in progress.
Other:
5. The Roby Jct-Huyon Jct 4th track is to be laid soon (it was scheduled for last Sunday, apparently, but was postponed) but not connected at Roby Junction or beyond Huyton, of course, beuuase the 4th trackbed is nowhere near ready there.
6. Still no seats on Roby Platform 2/3, including in the shelter.
7. The recent rain has exposed a leak in the stairway to Roby Platform 2/3. This is known and will be remedied before handover.
8. I identified six mastless bases between Manchester Victoria and Salford Central, at least three others having been topped with masts since my last visit. West of Salford Central most masts have fixings attached seemingly almost ready for wires.
9. Although I can't give numbers I have a very clear impression across the whole project of there being far more metalwork in the air, with few bare masts, even where there are no wires yet.
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DJH1971
Established Member
PDG1949
Member
NR have recemtly submitted another planning application to St. Helens Council. Don't get too excited, though - it's for graffiti removal on the Sankey viaduct !
http://llpgport.oltps.sthelens.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=101279
http://llpgport.oltps.sthelens.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=101279
DJH1971
Established Member
They really do need to crack on with the viaduct now.
Just 4 months to the start of the new timetable.
Darren R
Established Member
DJH1971
Established Member
Network Rail need planning permission to remove graffiti?hock:
Would have thought that would have been the responsibility of St Helens Council.
Thomas6187
Member
It appears that OHLE has come down in the Board Green area this morning. It reported to be because of vandalism
DJH1971
Established Member
Didn't waste any time.
Hope it can be fixed in time.
The sooner 25kv is applied the better.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
At least they were able to exercise the new turnback facilities at Huyton P2.
Makes you wonder about how vandals can steal newly-installed OHLE from a line crawling with engineers round the clock.
Joseph_Locke
Established Member
At least they were able to exercise the new turnback facilities at Huyton P2.
Makes you wonder about how vandals can steal newly-installed OHLE from a line crawling with engineers round the clock.
Needn't be theft; a well placed mattress can cause a world of pain ...
DJH1971
Established Member
Looks like bigger fences are needed.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Depends where the incident was, but Olive Mount cutting must be an easy target for throwing things into, particularly from the bridges.
The incident apparently happened on the section east of Broadgreen Station, going towards Roby - access may of been via the Station or climbing the embankment on the North side of the line.
Class 170101
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Network Rail need planning permission to remove graffiti?
Sorry just plain bonkers :head: :wall:
DJH1971
Established Member
At least they were able to exercise the new turnback facilities at Huyton P2.
Makes you wonder about how vandals can steal newly-installed OHLE from a line crawling with engineers round the clock.
Indeed, we came into P3 from Wigan and did not call at any of the stops on the way, a shuttle if you would.
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