Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[Geeves]

Quick one from me.

Catenary wire, support wire from the next stanchion and contact wire all terminating just outside of Platform 3 at Victoria. I cant see any insulators on any of this yet, dont stand too close when the turn on the power!!

Contact wire and the rest heads off into yonder but my camera is too crappy to pick up the detail

http://s13.photobucket.com/user/Geeves8612/media/IMG_20141215_091300191_zps2e875e70.jpg.html

Great to see the progress on the viaducts too, cheers!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Quick one from me.
Catenary wire, support wire from the next stanchion and contact wire all terminating just outside of Platform 3 at Victoria. I cant see any insulators on any of this yet, dont stand too close when the turn on the power!!
Contact wire and the rest heads off into yonder but my camera is too crappy to pick up the detail

Yes, that's just where I was standing earlier today.
Scary!

 

[LDECRexile]

More wires up at Earlestown, this time to the north of the tracks from near the eastern end of the viaduct to between Junction Lane bridge and the western end of Platform 1.

Photos later.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes, that's just where I was standing earlier today.
Scary!

Lest anyone imagine these guys are scaremongering please see Photos 1694 and, especially, 1692 in here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

 

[steverailer]

Quick one from me.

Catenary wire, support wire from the next stanchion and contact wire all terminating just outside of Platform 3 at Victoria. I cant see any insulators on any of this yet, dont stand too close when the turn on the power!!

Contact wire and the rest heads off into yonder but my camera is too crappy to pick up the detail

http://s13.photobucket.com/user/Geeves8612/media/IMG_20141215_091300191_zps2e875e70.jpg.html

Great to see the progress on the viaducts too, cheers!

Can't say exactly as never been there, but would guess that sleeper edge insulation will be cut in, or insulation at the first cantelever. Easier to do this into wires that are up and tensioned, than when its being ran.

Don't know if you photo'd with zoom, but the closeness would suggest that the insulation would be nearer to the cantelever than the anchor so as area near the public are always earthed

 

[LDECRexile]

I've added 9 photos taken today here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

 

[Geeves]

Steverailer, there is no zoom my photo, you can pretty much reach the contact wire from the bridge, I wont be testing!!

Thanks for the explanation, just seems alot of bother to not have just had the insulators in place rather than cutting the wire again. If they turned the power on as it is that whole stanchion becomes a 25KV Tesla coil

Good shots again LDEC

 

[AM9]

Steverailer, there is no zoom my photo, you can pretty much reach the contact wire from the bridge, I wont be testing!!

Thanks for the explanation, just seems alot of bother to not have just had the insulators in place rather than cutting the wire again. If they turned the power on as it is that whole stanchion becomes a 25KV Tesla coil

Good shots again LDEC

If they turned the 25kV, and there weren't any insulators out of the picture, it woud trip out straight away with a surge current of a few thousand amps. The ground circuit current may give the signals a glitch, but I doubt if anybody would come to any harm.

 

[Billyblue]

Are you sure they say STOP and not OFF?
Those I saw today I believe are platform repeaters of the next signal aspect.
I'm never quite sure why they are not the same as "banner repeaters" but they only show anything ("OFF") when the signal is not red.

Sorry Dave and everyone who responded to my request for an explanation of what the STOP platform signal was for. You were all quite correct; the signs read OFF and not STOP.

Could it have something to do with the fact that trains may go either way on the platforms the OFF signs are on, either all the time as at P3 at Earlestown and Edge Hill or very occasionally as at P2 at Huyton? On the day after the July blockade I was on Huyton Station and a Manchester bound train used P2. I haven't seen this happen since, though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Are you sure they say STOP and not OFF?
Those I saw today I believe are platform repeaters of the next signal aspect.
I'm never quite sure why they are not the same as "banner repeaters" but they only show anything ("OFF") when the signal is not red.

Sorry Dave and everyone who responded to my request for an explanation of what the STOP platform signal was for. You were all quite correct; the signs read OFF and not STOP.

Could it have something to do with the fact that trains may go either way on the platforms the OFF signs are on, either all the time as at P3 at Earlestown and Edge Hill or very occasionally as at P2 at Huyton? On the day after the July blockade I was on Huyton Station and a Manchester bound train used P2. I haven't seen this happen since, though.

 

[Muzer]

Yeah, OFF signs are lit when the signal is not displaying red. They are to allow the platform dispatch staff or guard to see the signal aspect on platforms where it is hard or impossible to see from the place that platform dispatch staff or guards normally stand. This is because starting the dispatch process before the signal has cleared is dangerous and against the rules, as it might lead to a driver having a momentary lapse in concentration, forgetting to check the signal and passing it at danger (a well-known phenomenon commonly known as "ding-ding and away", but officially known as a SASSPAD - Starting Against Signal, Signal Passed At Danger)

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Steverailer, there is no zoom my photo, you can pretty much reach the contact wire from the bridge, I wont be testing!!

Thanks for the explanation, just seems alot of bother to not have just had the insulators in place rather than cutting the wire again. If they turned the power on as it is that whole stanchion becomes a 25KV Tesla coil

Good shots again LDEC

Not a tesla coil, no windings ...

Anyway, the cut-in insulation will be placed so that you can't get within 2.75m of a live part - this will be a long way from the anchor point and may look like a plastic rod let into the conductor; as Steverailer says, it's likely to be where the wire in the photo passes over the sleeper end (e.g. just out of pantograph range).

 

[apk55]

I would of thought that before energising overhead line with power they would "Flash test" insulation with considerable overvoltage (maybe 100KV DC?) to check for any weak spots.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Not a tesla coil, no windings ...

Anyway, the cut-in insulation will be placed so that you can't get within 2.75m of a live part - this will be a long way from the anchor point and may look like a plastic rod let into the conductor; as Steverailer says, it's likely to be where the wire in the photo passes over the sleeper end (e.g. just out of pantograph range).

There are indeed some rod-type vertical bits in the OHLE somewhat to the west of the anchor point, roughly where Man Exchange platforms started.
The wiring is not complete yet either, so it might appear differently when finished.

PS - A couple of other noticeable things from looking at the wiring on the anchor point (maybe not finished off completely):
They are, in close-up, great fat multicore hi-tech things.
The ends are all numbered with the mast number and other things.
The logistics must be a nightmare to manage!
Should have taken a photo.

 

[LDECRexile]

Yeah, OFF signs are lit when the signal is not displaying red. They are to allow the platform dispatch staff or guard to see the signal aspect on platforms where it is hard or impossible to see from the place that platform dispatch staff or guards normally stand. This is because starting the dispatch process before the signal has cleared is dangerous and against the rules, as it might lead to a driver having a momentary lapse in concentration, forgetting to check the signal and passing it at danger (a well-known phenomenon commonly known as "ding-ding and away", but officially known as a SASSPAD - Starting Against Signal, Signal Passed At Danger)

Spot on.

The guard at Earlestown on a train travelling S-to-W along Platform 3 can't see the next signal because the track is very sharply curved and the train is in the way if s/he's at the back. The platform indicator shows 'OFF' or blank, OFF because that is either official or long established railwaymen's slang for a signal being 'clear' (not red.) It also shows 'OFF', as opposed to a green or amber light so there can be no possibility of confusion with an ordinary signal. When Manchester's trams were introduced the designers realised that trams were very different animals behaving in sometimes conflicting ways from the road vehicles people were used to, so they sought to find signals which looked utterly different from usual road signals to reduce the chance of a car driver and a tram driver confusing a green traffic light and setting off into each other's path. Same idea. (They did the same with the tram's hooters, too.)

The track at Earlestown Platform 3 is bi-directional and single, so what applies to S-to-W trains applies equally to W-to-S trains, hence there are OFF indicators back to back in the middle of the platform.

Next time you're there try standing next to the guard as s/he looks to give the all clear to the driver and you'll see what I'm rabbiting on about.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I would of thought that before energising overhead line with power they would "Flash test" insulation with considerable overvoltage (maybe 100KV DC?) to check for any weak spots.

I don't think so; the switchgear protection settings would prevent a significant overvoltage by isconnecting at source in any case.

They do howver park "load banks" (connverted electric locos) in section and try and break things; also section proving, which involves opening and closing section and sub-section switches and powering up to check for shorts (which is spectacular when the find one).

 

[LDECRexile]

Could it have something to do with the fact that trains may go either way on the platforms the OFF signs are on, either all the time as at P3 at Earlestown and Edge Hill or very occasionally as at P2 at Huyton? On the day after the July blockade I was on Huyton Station and a Manchester bound train used P2. I haven't seen this happen since, though.

The Huyton OFF indicator is linked with the signal which points the 'wrong way' which stays red almost all the time, so the OFF indicator stays blank to match. The signal/indicator only show not red/OFF when trains are making unusual movements against the normal flow in times of emergency or engineering works such as in the blockade.

Earlestown's indicators change all the time because the signals change all the time.

 

[apk55]

I don't think so; the switchgear protection settings would prevent a significant overvoltage by isconnecting at source in any case.

They do howver park "load banks" (connverted electric locos) in section and try and break things; also section proving, which involves opening and closing section and sub-section switches and powering up to check for shorts (which is spectacular when the find one).

You would disconect any sensitive limiting equipment such as switchgear before a flash test. (Anyway I would expect open 25KV switchgear contacts to easily withstand 100KV.) The purpose of flash testing is to check the insulation can withstand considerably more than the maximum voltage, so that surges or transients do not cause flahover

 

[nw-sparks]

The Huyton OFF indicator is linked with the signal which points the 'wrong way' which stays red almost all the time, so the OFF indicator stays blank to match. The signal/indicator only show not red/OFF when trains are making unusual movements against the normal flow in times of emergency or engineering works such as in the blockade.

The OFF indicator on platform 2 at Huyton is linked with the signal that points the "right" (down) way and is usually lit, unless a train has just passed. It is there because the guard may be unable to see LL5579.

Unless they've moved it in the last week?

 

[Billyblue]

The Huyton OFF indicator is linked with the signal which points the 'wrong way' which stays red almost all the time, so the OFF indicator stays blank to match. The signal/indicator only show not red/OFF when trains are making unusual movements against the normal flow in times of emergency or engineering works such as in the blockade.

Earlestown's indicators change all the time because the signals change all the time.

LDECRexile and Muzer;thanks for your very clear explanations of the purpose of OFF signs and LDECRexile for your brilliant photos. These will become a valuable historical resource in years to come.

 

[LDECRexile]

The OFF indicator on platform 2 at Huyton is linked with the signal that points the "right" (down) way and is usually lit, unless a train has just passed. It is there because the guard may be unable to see LL5579.

Unless they've moved it in the last week?

Oops. Well spotted. Thanks Phil.

 

[8A Rail]

Just been out to shops and coming over Cumber Lane Bridge (Whiston) in car, noted the wires were complete on the UP line with either one /two just missing off the DOWN line. I must assume this now almost complete's the gap between Rainhill and Pottery Lane Bridge, Whiston (& onward to Huyton Quarry). HTH.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

LDECRexile and Muzer;thanks for your very clear explanations of the purpose of OFF signs and LDECRexile for your brilliant photos. These will become a valuable historical resource in years to come.

Absolutely and real huge interest for many of us now. Just love to see all the progress at long last.

 

[DJH1971]

Absolutely and real huge interest for may of us now. Just love to see all the progress at long last.

Seconded.

Things seem to be moving at breakneck speed all of a sudden now.

 

[Class 170101]

Seconded.

Things seem to be moving at breakneck speed all of a sudden now.

Progress is to be welcomed but why the breakneck pace now and not steady and convincing progress (or even break neck progress) six months ago? :roll:

 

[Whistler40145]

Glad to hear that works are now speeding up, maybe the expected delayed completion date can be reduced.

Are Network Rail putting pressure onto the contractors to get the work completed early?

 

[DJH1971]

Glad to hear that works are now speeding up, maybe the expected delayed completion date can be reduced.

Are Network Rail putting pressure onto the contractors to get the work completed early?

I woudn't put it past them, but I ain't complaining!

 

[LDECRexile]

Thank you for kind comments about a lasting record, to which end I am I am delighted to tell you that Paul Gaskell has given me 50 photos to use which he has taken over the last 18 months or so.

Not only was it a great pleasure to meet Paul and look at his material relevant to the electrification project, but also to see his collection of shots around St Helens over the years.

I have created an album containing all and only Paul's Pictures here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649792560381/

and blended his material into what is now our overall album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/16044760955/in/set-72157648494725811/

I would be tickled pink if others follow suit, especially older pictures (eg looking west from Huyton into a forest, c 2012) be it ones, tens or hundreds of photos. My ambition is to end up with something rich and varied which is ever likelier the more folks chip in.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Paul Gaskell has given me 50 photos to use which he has taken over the last 18 months or so. I have created an album containing all and only Paul's Pictures here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649792560381/

and blended his material into what is now our overall album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/16044760955/in/set-72157648494725811/

Outstanding sir - and Paul.

 

[8A Rail]

I would be tickled pink if others follow suit, especially older pictures (eg looking west from Huyton into a forest, c 2012) be it ones, tens or hundreds of photos. My ambition is to end up with something rich and varied which is ever likelier the more folks chip in.

As for material prior to electrification, there is plenty about on flickr but may be members are not aware of my two flickr sites which both have various images taken on the L&M line / Prescot -St Helens line over the last 30+ years (amongst other local lines too)- they may interest you?

Recent Images (since 2010/11): http://www.flickr.com/photos/8arail/
Past Images (prior to 2010): http://www.flickr.com/photos/8a-collection/

I am always adding to both flickr sites - it just takes time, that is all.

 

[Ploughman]

Progress is to be welcomed but why the breakneck pace now and not steady and convincing progress (or even break neck progress) six months ago? :roll:

Is it more a case of a lot of work is going on all the time.
But on things that no one notices then all of a sudden it all comes together.

I know from my own experience that OHLE Projects can have a lot of background work and not a lot up front for a long time.
The actual installation of the equipment can be the quickest item to put up and is also the most noticeable.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Glad to hear that works are now speeding up, maybe the expected delayed completion date can be reduced.
Are Network Rail putting pressure onto the contractors to get the work completed early?

There's nothing much happening on the Wigan branch.
I would guess they are prioritising a launch date for Liverpool-Manchester Airport over the rest, as Northern has said that is where they want to start.