Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[LDECRexile]

May be as and when we meet, I give you a little history lesson of the Liverpool area.

I'm looking forward to it even more.

Kind regards

Dave

 

[DJH1971]

Went and had a look at the Huyton to Wigan stretch today near St Helens.

It is a lot further behind than between Wavertree to Earlestown in my opinion, with a lot more wiring to do.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Haven't seen this mentioned before but it seems that Google streetview has been updated here:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4053682,-2.9217044,3a,75y,279.51h,72.06t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1shqFVmSNnkEFIpTqGPQ5Gvw!2e0

and here:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4057537,-2.9085764,3a,75y,89.19h,92.42t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1slPp3AEuLwE9nojNvRKGJrw!2e0

The new OHLE is clearly visible where as I recall, it wasn't a few months ago.

Your are correct, the I think I posted some pictures from Rathbone Road road bridge earlier in the year on this thread shortly after the wires started appearing and I can also confirm the Google Street Car visited our road in the summer which is not far from the bridge. Interestingly, the overhead view is not always updated at the same time as the street view because the road works in our road are not shown in the overhead view, but are clearly visible in the street view.

Nice one! Thank you. Aren't good ideas obvious once someone else has thought of them!

Taking this forward, I have used quite a lot of photos from Stephenson Way bridge, overlooking Bootle Branch Junction and Waterloo Branch Junction.

The vantage point is shown here:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sBJXmsh4cf7iyAtrVsPZfrQ!2e0

Over the weekend I made a trip to the area with a railway-interested relative who grew up in Wavertree in the 1950s. He told me that the LNWR/LMS/BR(M) Edge Hill steam shed (8A) was where these new buildings and greened-up area are ahead of camera. That may be obvious to older Liverpudlians, but I for one didn't know it.

c1959 Dad put on his best ex-NCO bearing and knocked on the foreman's window and asked permission to take his son round the shed one Sunday on an unprecedented visit to Liverpool. Permission was readily granted. I can still remember the feeling of awe among strange giants which I later knew as ex-LNW G2s, 'Princesses' and others.

Happy Days.

There are some interesting images and information about the area around Edge Hill Shed and what is now Wavertree Technology Park in this forum. Note you will need to create a login to view many of the images.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...lectrified-flyover-wavertree-technology-park/

Yes it is obvious to the elder generation! If you go the older side of bridge (north side) then all that area was the the famous "Gridiron". The whole area has changed all out of recognition sadly.



I only lived 400yds from Edge Hill Shed in my younger days (early 60's) when the Duchess's appeared including one (out of 3) of the surviving Duchess's (46233 D-o-Sutherland) was allocated there along with the introduction of the English Electric Type 4's (Class 40's) began to appear. Now you realise why I use '8A' as my nickname/call sign so to speak.

May be as and when we meet, I give you a little history lesson of the Liverpool area.

I probably lived even closer, opposite the entrance to Rathbone Road Coal Depot which is now the Rathbone Road entrance to Wavertree Technology Park Station and have vivid memories of railway activity in the local area during the 1960's. I managed just a handful of visits to 8A during this time largely because it was considered out of bounds to the locals. Many a happy day, including school holidays and sick days were spent watching the trains going up and down the Gridiron or around the Edge Hill Circular which were all visible from the bedroom window! I can also remember the original WCML electrification in the 1960's around the area including these freight lines. It's hard to believe that within 20 years much of the freight lines would be ripped up. I still live in the area although not the same house although I continue to visit relations who still live there so hence my interest in the area and the current project.

 

[LDECRexile]

There are some interesting images and information about the area around Edge Hill Shed and what is now Wavertree Technology Park in this forum. Note you will need to create a login to view many of the images.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...lectrified-flyover-wavertree-technology-park/

Wonderful. I'm entranced, my relative will be stunned.

There's even one shot on the site also strays off to Tapton Footbridge, Chesterfield, where I spent a significant number of boy-hours 60-odd years ago!

Thank you for introducing me to this site.

Dave
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Went and had a look at the Huyton to Wigan stretch today near St Helens.

It is a lot further behind than between Wavertree to Earlestown in my opinion, with a lot more wiring to do.

Did you take any photos you could share?

Please contact me via the Private Messages process if you would like me to publish them in the same manner as I have for Paul Gaskill. The beauty of doing it that way is that all pictures are in one place for all time, whereas if we simply attach them then they are scattered. (It also means I do the legwork!)

Hope to hear from you.

Dave

PS: If I may remind you, I put all of Paul's Photos in here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649792560381/

and also weave them into the shared flickr album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

and the wording I use in the captions strives to make triply sure he gets full credit, not me. I would do the same for photos submitted by you and anyone else.

 

[DJH1971]

Wonderful. I'm entranced, my relative will be stunned.

There's even one shot on the site also strays off to Tapton Footbridge, Chesterfield, where I spent a significant number of boy-hours 60-odd years ago!

Thank you for introducing me to this site.

Dave
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Did you take any photos you could share?

Please contact me via the Private Messages process if you would like me to publish them in the same manner as I have for Paul Gaskill. The beauty of doing it that way is that all pictures are in one place for all time, whereas if we simply attach them then they are scattered. (It also means I do the legwork!)

Hope to hear from you.

Dave

PS: If I may remind you, I put all of Paul's Photos in here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649792560381/

and also weave them into the shared flickr album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

and the wording I use in the captions strives to make triply sure he gets full credit, not me. I would do the same for photos submitted by you and anyone else.

Sadly not, but I can reliably report that there is still no wiring in place between Haresfinch to the bridge crossing Chalon Way in St Helens.

Hopefully things will speed up a little during this weekend's blockade.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Hopefully things will speed up a little during this weekend's blockade.

Indeed so. It will be interesting to read "early 2015" postings upon this thread. I would like to offer my personal thanks to all those forum members who have made such detailed and interesting postings upon this thread in 2014.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Removal of the car park/taxi rank would allow the re-instatement of Platforms 10 and 11.

I'm not sure this would solve the problem as it would not be very straight as the rather old diagram of the station layout on the link below shows. Unfortunately, I've haven't managed to find a newer version.

http://locodriver.co.uk/Railway_Encyclopedia/Part219/Part03/img55.gif

The other problem would be you would have to reverse the flow of traffic in Skelhorne Street which actually would not be a bad thing anyway because at the moment bus and coach passengers have to alight and load in and out of the line of traffic. Image the carnage if this was extended to cars and taxi's especially for infirm or elderly passengers.

One other possible solution which may or not work would be to remove the redundant siding lines between platform 1 & 6 which might then leave sufficient space to put in a long straight new platform 7 in the north side of the train shed. The existing siding 6a could then also be lengthened and partially straightened to form a new platform 8 replacing the existing platform 8, allowing platforms 9 & 10 to be relocated nearer the north side of the train shed. A new line might then be squeezed in the remaining gap between the car and taxi car park effectively becoming platform 11 through sharing platform 10. Huyton and beyond trains would still use platforms 1 to 4, with CLC and TPE trains using platform 5 & 6. Virgin could use both platforms 7 & 8, whilst LM and other trains heading via the CLC or Runcorn could share platforms 9, 10 and 11. This would allow simplification of the station throat and some platforms to be extended, with switching of trains between routes and platforms moved up the tunnel towards Edge Hill if necessary.

 

[LDECRexile]

Sadly not, but I can reliably report that there is still no wiring in place between Haresfinch to the bridge crossing Chalon Way in St Helens.

Pity about the photos, when you said the other day that you had your camera (phone) with you all the time I raised my hopes.

Still, thanks for following up with a clear, hard fact.

 

[DJH1971]

Pity about the photos, when you said the other day that you had your camera (phone) with you all the time I raised my hopes.

Still, thanks for following up with a clear, hard fact.

Sorry about that, but was also in the middle of Christmas shopping.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Indeed so. It will be interesting to read "early 2015" postings upon this thread. I would like to offer my personal thanks to all those forum members who have made such detailed and interesting postings upon this thread in 2014.

May I second that .

 

[Bevan Price]

No sign of any pointwork at Huyton this morning (11:30) - indeed not much happening at all. Just a few workers in the compound next to Roby station, and 4 NR workers entering lineside next to Huyton Bus Station.

Christmas greetings & Happy New Year to everyone.

 

[DJH1971]

May I second that .

And me also

 

[steverailer]

Went and had a look at the Huyton to Wigan stretch today near St Helens.

It is a lot further behind than between Wavertree to Earlestown in my opinion, with a lot more wiring to do.

It will be as the priority is to Earlstown, so they focused manpower and machines there

 

[snowball]

According to the Trackwatch column in the January Modern Railways, a quarter of a mile (19 chains to be exact) has been energised from Ordsall Lane junction towards Victoria.

 

[DJH1971]

According to the Trackwatch column in the January Modern Railways, a quarter of a mile (19 chains to be exact) has been energised from Ordsall Lane junction towards Victoria.

Very encouraging to hear.

 

[UrbanWorld]

Is any part of this line that now has wires installed operational on electric trains?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is any part of this line that now has wires installed operational on electric trains?

Ordsall Lane-Parkside-Golborne Jn on the Chat Moss route.
Used by TPE Manchester-Scotland services, and a Virgin Pendolino ECS from Preston to Longsight, plus occasional WCML diversions.
The live wires extend from Parkside to Winwick Jn (and down the WCML) over the 1974 electrification, but no electric trains are using it.

 

[Bevan Price]

Has anyone seen any work taking place in the Huyton / Roby area since 25 December that actually needed a complete blockade ? I have seen no signs of extensive engineering work - just small numbers of workers at the lineside. Was it really necessary to replace all trains by buses for the complete weekend ? Comments, please.......

 

[UrbanWorld]

Ordsall Lane-Parkside-Golborne Jn on the Chat Moss route.
Used by TPE Manchester-Scotland services, and a Virgin Pendolino ECS from Preston to Longsight, plus occasional WCML diversions.
The live wires extend from Parkside to Winwick Jn (and down the WCML) over the 1974 electrification, but no electric trains are using it.

Are the Manchester to Scotland services much faster?

 

[DJH1971]

This morning, I went to see if there was any further progress at the Sankey Viaduct.

Alas, still only one portal in place.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Are the Manchester to Scotland services much faster?

No, they run in the same class 185 times (a few of the services are still 185s).
Capacity has increased though.

 

[thealexweb]

Are the Manchester to Scotland services much faster?

Between Ordsall Lane Junction and Euxton Junction at least the new via Wigan route is on average two minutes slower than the via Bolton route even though there are fewer station stops (Wigan vs Bolton and Chorley) this is probably because the new route is much longer. North of Preston it seems they are somewhat faster.

 

[WatcherZero]

No, down to the junction change when it crawls over a long stretch of two sets of points and an isolation of the overhead at 5mph. If that speed limit was removed they would be much faster than the Bolton route.

 

[Billyblue]

Has anyone seen any work taking place in the Huyton / Roby area since 25 December that actually needed a complete blockade ? I have seen no signs of extensive engineering work - just small numbers of workers at the lineside. Was it really necessary to replace all trains by buses for the complete weekend ? Comments, please.......

I live nearby and we could hear steel on steel banging right through the early hours of the 27th. Towards lunchtime I went onto Huyton Station and had a walk along the public footpath but couldn't see any real change. Of course, major work could be elsewhere on the line that would justify a blockade.

 

[adsteamfan]

I went under the M6 bridge near Bryn last Monday and wires were only over the Liverpool-Wigan track whereas yesterday I saw that the wires are up over both tracks now so it looks like they have not diverted everyone to the L'pool-Earlstown stretch.

 

[snowball]

User "hulmeman2" has posted the following in the Victoria Station thread on Skyscrapercity:

Whilst driving up Middlewood St on Christmas Day, noticed dozens working on the overheads, possibly rectifying stuff done previously.

 

[Des Iroman]

No, down to the junction change when it crawls over a long stretch of two sets of points and an isolation of the overhead at 5mph. If that speed limit was removed they would be much faster than the Bolton route.

Would that be the short section at 20mph containing a neutral section (which has zero performance impact) between Golborne and Parkside then?

 

[DJH1971]

User "hulmeman2" has posted the following in the Victoria Station thread on Skyscrapercity:

Possibly to do with the signal sighting issue?

 

[thealexweb]

No, down to the junction change when it crawls over a long stretch of two sets of points and an isolation of the overhead at 5mph. If that speed limit was removed they would be much faster than the Bolton route.

Are there any plans to remove these speed limits? If not this route will only get slower by comparison as post-electrification (and 100mph running and EMU running) of the Bolton corridor the journey time will reduce by nine minutes to 30 minutes between Preston and Manchester.

 

[snowball]

The sharp radii seem an unavoidable limitation of the site, unless serious money was spent. And there presumably has to be a neutral section so that either the WCML or the L&M can be switched off without requiring each other to be switched off too.