Manchester Metrolink Piccadilly Gardens changes (until Wednesday 30 November 2022)

[jfollows]

I don't think I'm duplicating an existing post, and the information from Tfgm required a lot of clicks to find the details, so:
1. Until Monday 21 November, no service on the Piccadilly Gardens to Mosley Street west curve, because of a track fault (points at Piccadilly Gardens perhaps?).

• Piccadilly Station - Piccadilly Gardens - Market Street - Victoria service only one through Piccadilly Gardens (Ashton-Crumpsall service)
• Bury-Altrincham services direct
• Eccles-Deansgate
• Ticket acceptance on rail services Piccadilly-Deansgate (however I presume no chance of using contactless)
• Replacement bus service Deansgate-Piccadilly (again no idea how contactless will work)
• Information at https://tfgm.com/piccadilly-gardens-service-change

2. Tuesday 22 November to Tuesday 29 November track will be repaired/replaced

• No service Piccadilly Station to Piccadilly Gardens
• Bury-Altrincham services direct still
• Eccles-Deansgate
• Replacement bus services Piccadilly-Deansgate and Piccadilly-Victoria
• Information at https://tfgm.com/piccadilly-gardens-works

Any information on ticketing on bus and rail services would be welcome, I didn't find the detail required from Tfgm's Web site although I could have missed it.

EDIT See https://tfgm.com/tickets-and-passes/contactless

Using contactless cards or devices with alternative bus or train services during Metrolink service disruptions​

If a tram service is disrupted, Metrolink ticket acceptance on local bus services may be put in place. Please remember to touch-in at the tram stop at the start of your journey and touch-out at the end of your journey. If you do this, any contactless journeys will continue to be recorded and charged/capped as normal.

If you touch-in but are unable to touch-out, we’ll help with any payment queries. Please call 03000 035 035 after 24 hours. This allows time for our systems to update, so we can see all touches on the smart readers.

If special Metrolink replacement bus services are running, please touch-in and touch-out at the tram stop as usual, at the start and end of your journey.

You will need to show your contactless card or device as you board a bus.

Unfortunately, you will not be able to travel using contactless on any rail services where ticket acceptance is put in place and you will need to buy a ticket. Please keep tickets and/or receipts and, after 24 hours, call 03000 035 035 for help with any payment queries.

 

[duncanp]

Thanks for posting this.

I was planning a trip to Manchester next month, and it is useful to know these things in advance.

 

[py_megapixel]

Until Monday 21 November, no service on the Piccadilly Gardens to Moseley Street west curve, because of a track fault (points at Piccadilly Gardens perhaps?).

I think TfGM is blaming it on a track fault in Piccadilly Gardens. This has actually been the case since the start of the week, and appears to be an extension of a planned closure. It's a bit concerning that they can't get it fixed for almost a month but I presume there are reasons.

Is this the first time the new bay platform at Crumpsall has been used in earnest? At some point trams from Trafford Park are meant to be extended through the city to turn back there, but so far the service has been terminating at Cornbrook.

 

[Mothball]

I think TfGM is blaming it on a track fault in Piccadilly Gardens. This has actually been the case since the start of the week, and appears to be an extension of a planned closure. It's a bit concerning that they can't get it fixed for almost a month but I presume there are reasons.

It's a fault with a set of trailing points. They were due to be replaced a couple of months back, and then a few weeks ago, supply problems with some parts for the job prevented both hence the service change until they are able to do the work.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think TfGM is blaming it on a track fault in Piccadilly Gardens. This has actually been the case since the start of the week, and appears to be an extension of a planned closure. It's a bit concerning that they can't get it fixed for almost a month but I presume there are reasons.

The engineering works to replace the points were meant to take place this week, but the parts weren't available so it's been delayed. Its been planned for a while.

The points have been clipped in the Victoria direction in the meantime, to prevent failure.

 

[daveo]

Statement from Andy Burnham on BBC Radio Manchester (27/10) that the parts were ordered some time ago, but the Ministry of Defence used their powers to step in with a priority order and pushed everything else back.

 

[plugwash]

The engineering works to replace the points were meant to take place this week, but the parts weren't available so it's been delayed. Its been planned for a while.

The points have been clipped in the Victoria direction in the meantime, to prevent failure.

Anyone know if it was a technical reason for clipping the points in the Victoria direction rather than the deansgate direct? or because passenger flows were perceived to be greater in that direction?

 

[py_megapixel]

Anyone know if it was a technical reason for clipping the points in the Victoria direction rather than the deansgate direct? or because passenger flows were perceived to be greater in that direction?

My guess is because the Deansgate connection is well served by mainline trains (changing from tram to train is very easy at Deansgate) and it's undesirable to leave Market Street & Victoria with no service to Piccadilly.

It does make it a bit of a pain if you want to go from Ashton to Eccles though - presumably you're expected to get off at Piccadilly, go upstairs and get a train from the horribly inadequate platform 14 (have the barrier staff been briefed that they are to accept Metrolink tickets?), and then change back to the tram again at Deansgate. But I always got the impression that this connection exists mainly for operational convenience, and not because it's widely used by passengers.

 

[507 001]

I think TfGM is blaming it on a track fault in Piccadilly Gardens. This has actually been the case since the start of the week, and appears to be an extension of a planned closure. It's a bit concerning that they can't get it fixed for almost a month but I presume there are reasons.

Is this the first time the new bay platform at Crumpsall has been used in earnest? At some point trams from Trafford Park are meant to be extended through the city to turn back there, but so far the service has been terminating at Cornbrook.

Crumpsall has been used before.

 

[markymark2000]

What a waste of a rail replacement bus. Once again, TFGM throwing money down the drain while crying poverty for the tendered bus network and general other spending areas. You wouldn't get this wasteful spending in London.

Anyone from Deansgate going to Piccadilly Gardens will go to Market Street and walk. Passengers for Piccadilly or Ashton line, Most people will go to Market Street and change trams (though I can see crowd control measures being put into place around Market Street as it can already get busy). Failing that, people will use ticket acceptance on the trains. A good number of people already walk though between Piccadilly Gardens and Piccadilly Station.

The bus will of course get some use. Generally used by those who don't want to pay a fare on the Metrolink trams and bus enthusiasts. TFGM and their incompetent spending never fails to surprise me.

 

[507 001]

What a waste of a rail replacement bus. Once again, TFGM throwing money down the drain while crying poverty for the tendered bus network and general other spending areas. You wouldn't get this wasteful spending in London.

Anyone from Deansgate going to Piccadilly Gardens will go to Market Street and walk. Passengers for Piccadilly or Ashton line, Most people will go to Market Street and change trams (though I can see crowd control measures being put into place around Market Street as it can already get busy). Failing that, people will use ticket acceptance on the trains. A good number of people already walk though between Piccadilly Gardens and Piccadilly Station.

The bus will of course get some use. Generally used by those who don't want to pay a fare on the Metrolink trams and bus enthusiasts. TFGM and their incompetent spending never fails to surprise me.

It’s a case of damned if we do, damned if we don’t.

There’s always somebody who will complain.

 

[markymark2000]

It’s a case of damned if we do, damned if we don’t.

There’s always somebody who will complain.

I suppose it's one thing to have a plan in place incase things go a bit up the wall with the general operations or the trams or Market Street get overcrowded. That plan would be having the 3 buses on standby. To have them running though, just needlessly congests the road network. Especially in this area where it's already quite congested, having the 3 buses out running just congests things more. Standby is cheaper than running and you'd only have standbys covering times when there are potentially problems so overall, significantly cheaper.

I think it's worth remembering here, this isn't a private company paying out lots of money, this is TAXPAYERS MONEY being WASTED by an incompetent Public Transport Authority.

 

[WatcherZero]

Its for people of limited mobility.

 

[markymark2000]

Its for people of limited mobility

There is still not logic using that as the excuse for it. Trams are running. People of reduced mobility will find it easier to use the trams still and change at Market Street. If you can find an example where this service provides an easier option for someone of reduced mobility over using the tram then please, be my guest. This should be limited to the block and not include instances which normally someone would have to deal with (Ie, someone going from Deansgate to Piccadilly will find it easier to use the bus over the tram because the tram is up the lift. In normal circumstances, if trams were running properly, the person would have to use the lift or catch a normal bus. Or instances where the bus stops closer than the tram because in normal circumstances, that isn't a valid option)

 

[Mothball]

There is still not logic using that as the excuse for it. Trams are running. People of reduced mobility will find it easier to use the trams still and change at Market Street. If you can find an example where this service provides an easier option for someone of reduced mobility over using the tram then please, be my guest. This should be limited to the block and not include instances which normally someone would have to deal with (Ie, someone going from Deansgate to Piccadilly will find it easier to use the bus over the tram because the tram is up the lift. In normal circumstances, if trams were running properly, the person would have to use the lift or catch a normal bus. Or instances where the bus stops closer than the tram because in normal circumstances, that isn't a valid option)

Have you thought to ask them why they are supplyimg replacement buses rather than assuming they are paying out for no reason?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think it's worth remembering here, this isn't a private company paying out lots of money, this is TAXPAYERS MONEY being WASTED by an incompetent Public Transport Authority.

If you're coming from the Eccles line you have to change at Deansgate-Castlefield and again at Market Street, and on top of that there's a reduced frequency Market Street-Piccadilly. So actually, a RRB doesn't seem such a daft idea, and it's only two buses doing the shuttle so it won't exactly be breaking the bank.

 

[markymark2000]

If you're coming from the Eccles line you have to change at Deansgate-Castlefield and again at Market Street, and on top of that there's a reduced frequency Market Street-Piccadilly. So actually, a RRB doesn't seem such a daft idea, and it's only two buses doing the shuttle so it won't exactly be breaking the bank.

But to access the bus, you would have to then trek down to street level and then wait for a bus as 95% of Mancs will tell you, if there is a choice of an overcrowded tram and having to change an extra time, they prefer that over a rail replacement bus. I'd also put it out there that people would much rather walk from Market Street to Piccadilly than catch a rail replacement bus.

As for the amount of buses, it uses and will be paid based off 3 buses. You could be looking at a good £30k being wasted on these services, maybe more (based off 3 buses, £120k per year the company wants (subjective as many people say this figure is higher). Of course divide that over 12 months. I'm glad that you don't care where taxpayers money goes, but some people actually want public funds spend appropriately. IT may not seem like a lot in comparison to TFGMs budget but £30k is a lot of taxpayers money to waste on a bus which does basically nothing but add to the congestion within the city.

 

[WatcherZero]

Actually I avoid the Market Street stop as much as possible, its always so crammed its like being in a mosh pit and I certainly wouldnt want to attempt to use it in a wheelchair.

 

[markymark2000]

Actually I avoid the Market Street stop as much as possible, its always so crammed its like being in a mosh pit and I certainly wouldnt want to attempt to use it in a wheelchair.

It is a bit of a funny station in that respect. I can see many people still heading for it though over a replacement bus. As we know from railway passengers, people would rather a much longer train journey diverting around the world than jumping onto a replacement bus. Arguebly for a city like Manchester too, people would walk the distance or find alternative routes than using a replacement bus.

 

[507020]

Actually I avoid the Market Street stop as much as possible, its always so crammed its like being in a mosh pit and I certainly wouldnt want to attempt to use it in a wheelchair.

I’ve been trying to use Market Street more than Piccadilly Gardens because I want the row of shops on that side and if I walk as far as Boots or M&S I try and go back from Exchange Square. The one I try and avoid is Shudehill because something always goes wrong there that causes me to miss a train from Victoria. I’ve even been on a tram that hit someone at Shudehill. From Piccadilly Gardens whenever there’s football or cricket on the Altrincham tram becomes unusable but there can be a MediaCity tram 1 minute after it which is empty.

 

[py_megapixel]

I don't see what the relevance is of all this discussion about Market Street - Piccadilly. There are still trams on that route. It's the other route, towards St Peter's Square, which isn't served.

 

[507 001]

I suppose it's one thing to have a plan in place incase things go a bit up the wall with the general operations or the trams or Market Street get overcrowded. That plan would be having the 3 buses on standby. To have them running though, just needlessly congests the road network. Especially in this area where it's already quite congested, having the 3 buses out running just congests things more. Standby is cheaper than running and you'd only have standbys covering times when there are potentially problems so overall, significantly cheaper.

I think it's worth remembering here, this isn't a private company paying out lots of money, this is TAXPAYERS MONEY being WASTED by an incompetent Public Transport Authority.

I suppose it depends on your definition of waste.

 

[WatcherZero]

I don't see what the relevance is of all this discussion about Market Street - Piccadilly. There are still trams on that route. It's the other route, towards St Peter's Square, which isn't served.

We are discussing the Pros and Cons of taking one tram and walking across the city centre vs the direct bustitution.

 

[py_megapixel]

We are discussing the Pros and Cons of taking one tram and walking across the city centre vs the direct bustitution.

From where?

The bus is from Piccadilly station (not Piccadilly Gardens) to Deansgate. I agree with the sentiment that it's a bit pointless - but that's because from Piccadilly station there are the options of catching the train or changing at Market Street, both of which are accessible for those of reduced mobility, possibly more so than the bus. I don't think getting a tram anywhere else and walking would achieve much, as there's currently no direct service to anywhere that would make the walk to Deansgate more than negligibly shorter.

(Picc Gardens and Market Street stops are pretty much next to each other, and Market Street does currently have services in that direction, so there's no issue there).

 

[Tetchytyke]

I agree with the sentiment that it's a bit pointless - but that's because from Piccadilly station there are the options of catching the train or changing at Market Street, both of which are accessible for those of reduced mobility, possibly more so than the bus

The issue is that the works mean the Eccles line trams terminate at Deansgate-Castlefield. So the choices here are change at Deansgate-Castlefield for the replacement bus, change for a train, or change there for a tram to Market Street then change again for another tram to Piccadilly.

The RRB is possibly a bit overkill, but I can see why they've made that choice as the trains from Deansgate to Piccadilly aren't always as frequent as you'd expect, it's a faff getting jnto the railway station, and there's a reduced frequency Market Street-Piccadilly.

 

[edwin_m]

The issue is that the works mean the Eccles line trams terminate at Deansgate-Castlefield. So the choices here are change at Deansgate-Castlefield for the replacement bus, change for a train, or change there for a tram to Market Street then change again for another tram to Piccadilly.

The RRB is possibly a bit overkill, but I can see why they've made that choice as the trains from Deansgate to Piccadilly aren't always as frequent as you'd expect, it's a faff getting jnto the railway station, and there's a reduced frequency Market Street-Piccadilly.

The bus and train options all involve at least one lift or long flight of stairs, unless you're travelling eastbound to catch a train from Piccadilly P13/14. Tram via Market Street would be my choice even though I'm OK with stairs.

 

[jfollows]

Wednesday 23 November and services are further disrupted by a rogue tram getting in a disagreement with the trackwork on approach to Saint Peter's Square from the west:

TfGM at https://tfgm.com/st-peters-square-derailment says:

Due to the derailment of a tram near St Peter's Square, there is a service change in place across the Metrolink network.

Trams are currently operating as follows:

• Altrincham to Deansgate-Castlefield
• Ashton to Piccadily
• Bury to Victoria
• East Didsbury to Cornbrook
• Eccles to Deansgate-Castlefield
• Manchester Airport to Firswood
• Rochdale Town Centre to Exchange Square
• Trafford Park to Wharfside

Bus ticket acceptance is in place on the following services:

Trafford Park line: 18, 150, 250, 255, 256, 263 and X50 bus services.

PS reported fixed at 20:15.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Oops! Glad I got the free City bus to Piccadilly for my train back to the airport.

I've been in Manchester the last couple of days, one of the replacement buses out has been an ex-NatEx Levante. Seems a bit overkill for Victoria to Piccadilly.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Wednesday 23 November and services are further disrupted by a rogue tram getting in a disagreement with the trackwork on approach to Saint Peter's Square from the west:
View attachment 124177
TfGM at https://tfgm.com/st-peters-square-derailment says:

PS reported fixed at 20:15.

It tried to multi-track drift. Or solve the trolley problem via the best way possible.

I can get my own coat.

 

[507020]

When did The Trafford Centre trams get extended to Deansgate-Castlefield instead of Cornbrook? I had this argument with them years ago the timings would have always allowed them to connect with the main railway at Deansgate but instead they always sat in the siding at Cornbrook, giving me a 59 minute wait when I missed my train by 1 minute because I had to wait at Cornbrook.