Manchester to Liverpool commute

[Goatboy]

I don't live anywhere near the North West and have zero family links with anywhere in the North West so no bias.

I went to Liverpool for the day last year. Frankly I thought it was a lovely city - the people there seemed friendly, it has some nice arcitecture and never once seemed unsafe, dodgy, criminal in nature of indeed any of the other things the stereotypes point to.

I appreciate a day isn't much, but it didn't feel like a dive to me.

 

[30907]

As a South Londoner who has lived in Yorkshire for 18 years and now East Lancs for 4 I would say - both Liverpool and Manchester are pretty reasonable cities to live near.

Your commute will get you to the edge of the urban area quicker than in South London for obvious reasons, but if you want somewhere less extensively suburban, then the Bolton-Wigan-Chorley-Preston area might be worth considering, though it's better for Manchester than Liverpool.

I enjoy living in East Lancs, but its not good for rail commuting and really too far away to be worth considering (and Bolton-Blackburn will be last in the queue for an upgrade). Unless housing costs are your top priority, which I doubt!

Northern have a poor reputation, which in general I think is unfair (all their trains are diesel and mostly all-stations, and they have some very hilly routes in the Pennines).

Could I suggest a weekend visit to explore the area in reality, if you haven't already?

 

[Pumbaa]

For what it's worth, I commute Liverpool South Parkway - Piccadilly several times a week (on average). I tend to take the 0932 from South Parkway (it's still peak from Liverpool) and usually get a seat, but the 1807 coming back is a 'mare.

I tend to avoid the EMT services, partly because they don't fit with my plans, but mostly because the air-cons usually packed up, the train hasn't been strengthened at Nottingham, and coming from Manchester the odds are it's much busier than the TPE.

 

[Leslie Fletcher]

I commuted from East Didsbury to Liverpool from 2001 - 2011 and from Levenshulme to Liverpool since though, because of the nature of my job, not every day and not to a tight schedule. I take what I assume are the standard commuter steps and reading, podcasts, music &c. to occupy the time and I have found the commute an OK experience. These days I usually travel westbound from Piccadilly on the Northern Rail Manchester Airport to Liverpool service because it easier to get a good seat (and I can keep an eye out for the infrastructure changes going on apace!) Eastbound I now aim for an EMT 4-car service for the same reason. It is all pretty reliable though I keep an eye on Lime Street arrivals during the day and leave work earlier or later than planned if one of the EMT or TPE trains is cancelled, which does happen from time to time. The main frustration in travelling from East Didsbury was the poor (20-25 minutes) connections at Piccadilly apart from the 0748 through train. Eastbound, it can be a bit of a scury across the bridge at Piccadilly to make some rather sharp connections. In the longer term I feel a little anxious that minor changes to timetables - e.g. using a Southport service rather than the Liverpool to provide extra capacity from East Didsbury in the morning or the evening connections at Piccadilly becoming not just sharp but impossible - could have a big impact on journey times.

 

[tony_mac]

I'm surprised we don't have more opinion from people who actually make the commute!

I sometimes get on an evening rush-hour train from one city heading towards the other, they are usually at least full and standing and sometimes worse. The stoppers out of Liverpool seem to be worse than the fast trains.

There is more to consider than simply the travel arrangements, there can be a large difference between neighbouring districts, and you may think some are completely unsuitable.

If you don't have a car, and depending on what you can afford, then it may make more sense to live in a city centre and for one person to do all the travelling - there is a more frequent service if you do that. Maybe move between the cities every 6 months
I don't know about living in Manchester, but there are some nice apartments on Liverpool's waterfront, and there is a modern shopping centre there which is open in the evenings until 8.

 

[Rail Bus]

once electrified what will the service pattern via Earlestown be?

And what will be left via Warrington on the CLC?

 

[Bevan Price]

once electrified what will the service pattern via Earlestown be?

And what will be left via Warrington on the CLC?

Via Earlestown, probably 2 TPE expresses and 2 all stations per hour each way, I believe, all using Manchester Victoria. They hope the expresses will take about 30 mins.

Via Warrington, 1 East Midland express, 2 semi-fast/locals (as now) and maybe the Liverpool - Manchester Airport service rerouted via Warrington (as partial replacement for TPE service)

 

[Mutant Lemming]

It cannot be taken literally, as first there is a discussion of suburbs of Manchester, and then there are crime rate statistics provided that are based on a radius of "1 mile". So the suburbs are excluded from the stats.

With crime rate stats that only encompass a small area, it is not possible to compare Liverpool with Manchester using those stats.

For example comparing York with Liverpool, York apparently has more anti-social behaviour. That may be true in the city centre, as louts from places like Teesside flock to York every weekend and behave badly. But that wouldn't make York a worse place to live, as the louts causing those statistics live in dumps elsewhere!

The city centre is a good starting point though and if you live in a city then you are have to endure the louts as they are in your city even if they do come in from Wicstun.

Incidentally, I have found the stopping services on the Earlestown route tend to be more crowded than the fast services via Warrington during the peak.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Perhaps a 'good' effect on the CLC (Warrington Central line) post-Chat Moss (Earlestown line) electrification will be a proper local service - a lot of the stations in west Manchester only enjoy a service every two hours because of the fast services along the route. With TPE's diversion via Newton, maybe it would be plausible to base around Flixton or Trafford Park and enjoy improved services to both Liverpool and Manchester, should they happen.

 

[Chapeltom]

I also commute on the Manchester to Liverpool via Warrington line for university. I use the 0837 off Manchester Picc a couple of times a week (I actually come from Chinley but that's irrelevant) and a mix of the 0707 to Warrington Central and the 0735 (stopper from Warrington Ctrl to Lime St). I usually use the stoppers from Mossley Hill in the middle of the day (very quiet!) The 1625 and the 1825.

It is generally a nice line to travel on. The 0707 and 0837 aren't that busy to be fair, the 0837 can be very quiet after Oxford Road. In the evening the stoppers, you can just about get a seat but the 1 hour journey IS a drag. I've been into Liverpool a number of times and know Manchester fairly well, Liverpool is mostly fine and I've stopped in hotel rooms there occasionally and never had a bad experience. Manchester City Centre if anything tends to be a bit more questionable, but I've never had any trouble.

From my own experience, Manchester has a number of questionable suburbs. I've watched a fair bit of amateur/semi pro football in the Manchester area (on probably 30 grounds inside the M60) and the North/East of Manchester can be pretty dodgy and I've had to watch my back. The south of Manchester tends to be a lot different.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

As a Man U fan I hate Liverpool with a vengeance (Not Everton or its supporters though lol), however Liverpool the City is modern and friendly, however I do have to say as a guard we do tend to get even more hassle heading towards Liverpool from Widnes then even on the Hadfield line, I am sure it is the usual minority however I can only talk from my own experience.

 

[156441]

As a Man U fan I hate Liverpool with a vengeance (Not Everton or its supporters though lol), however Liverpool the City is modern and friendly, however I do have to say as a guard we do tend to get even more hassle heading towards Liverpool from Widnes then even on the Hadfield line, I am sure it is the usual minority however I can only talk from my own experience.

Liverpool is my 2nd fav route to work (via CLC) I've never had bother on them I even generally come out and have a crack with the punters on the last on on a Friday!
Generally a fun route. You do get some scroates from Widnes/Sankey but tbh I've had more trouble with the people of Knutsford than Liverpool

 

[cle]

Urmston could be an ok-ish compromise with better services to both in the future once Chat Moss is the main fast route.

Stockton Heath people love.

Don't commute via Metrolink and NR also - the former is a rip off alone!

Bottom of Didsbury means you could walk to the station at Parrs Wood and then connect via the quickest route by the time you move, as timings will change a lot on this route. West Didsbury is nicest probably, but not as well connected. Buses are packed with students and so very slow.

Another leftfield suggestion could be Stalyvegas, once Chat Moss is live, this'll be a quick ride. Castlefield/Deansgate/Spinningfields areas could work too.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Liverpool is my 2nd fav route to work (via CLC) I've never had bother on them I even generally come out and have a crack with the punters on the last on on a Friday!
Generally a fun route. You do get some scroates from Widnes/Sankey but tbh I've had more trouble with the people of Knutsford than Liverpool

You have so so so much to learn lol, wait until its St Pats and you get a clapped out 142..then the fun begins, years ago Warrington used to be hell on Earth due to a Disco that attracted the local yoofs from miles around, one day it got so bad that they wrecked an entire train (and yes you could tell the difference). The main troublesome areas seems to be the 3 H's

Halewood

Hough Green

Hunts Cross

Before not too bad

After not too bad

but between those 3

Not Good!

 

[frodshamfella]

I am from North Kent, but have been living in the northwest for 25 years, firstly Crumpsall, then Prescot, Widnes, now near Frodsham. I don't know Manchester as well, but have commuted there by train from Rainhill. I would say both cities are pretty much on par with one another, plenty of good places to eat out, theatres, concert halls, good museums, interesting architecture in both and easy to reach countryside.

Word of warning about Warrington, if you have to drive to station expect pretty bad road congestion in the centre in the peaks. When I take the train now to Manchester I use Arriva Trains Wales from Frodsham, and for Liverpool, London Midland from Acton Bridge (free parking at both stations, and modern trains on both lines). Frodsham is a particularly nice historical (large)village still with independent shops, good pubs and place to eat, and there are many other nice smaller villages in the area.
Runcorn station has more services to Liverpool, but you will pay to park a car. Also remember you have two good airports in the Northwest Liverpool and Manchester, with many flight options available.

 

[northwichcat]

On a Lime Street-Oxford Road stopper I was on one Saturday afternoon, the guard hadn't been through in a while and between Trafford Park and Deansgate he shouted "Tickets please" and without exaggerating around 30 people got up and moved in to the next carriage. I think they thought the train was about to stop at Deansgate when it was actually slowing down due to a red signal.

What's annoying about Knutsford is everyone seemed to know there was an issue with high school pupils but Northern didn't seem interested in doing anything for so long except sending a letter to the school's headteacher saying if their pupils continued to misbehave Northern would ban their school from travelling (how would that have worked?) BTP also seemed uninterested in being present at the station at the end of the school day until a group of them got hold of some thrown out milk cartons containing sour milk and threw them around the station.

The Hartford High (or whatever they are called these days) and Mid-Cheshire college pupils travelling between Greenbank and Northwich are also a fare evasion problem. And apparently the speed limit over the Leftwich viaduct is to be raised from 20mph to 50mph next year so even more of an issue in the future.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The main troublesome areas seems to be the 3 H's

Halewood

Hough Green

Hunts Cross

A woman who got on a train at Hunts Cross I was on gave the most feeble excuse for not buying a ticket before she boarded. Apparently she had no time to buy a ticket when the queue had just 3 people in it 5 minutes before the departure time and she was going to Liverpool - not like she would have missed an onward connection.

 

[exile]

Are you looking for somewhere convenient for both Liverpool and Manchester?

If so I can suggest Newton-le-Willows, Warrington, Birchwood, Widnes, Crewe, Chester, possibly Wigan. All have at least 2 trains per hour to both cities with a journey time of an hour or less.

I commute from Sankey to Liverpool which is OK but getting to Manchester is more difficult - trains at 0723 (change at Warrington) or 0820 direct - but that doesn't get to Manchester till after 0900.....

 

[VauxhallandI]

Hale and Altrincham are the way forward.

Lovely part of the world, near the airport, countryside and Altrincham FC.

 

[rebmcr]

Hale and Altrincham are the way forward.

Lovely part of the world, near the airport, countryside and Altrincham FC.

Except the high streets are now akin to ghost towns and they have next-to-no NR service; Metrolink only to Manchester and nowt to Liverpool.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Except the high streets are now akin to ghost towns and they have next-to-no NR service; Metrolink only to Manchester and nowt to Liverpool.

They are making an effort to improve Alty town centre, time will tell.

Hale seems to be thriving from what I've seen.

 

[northwichcat]

Except the high streets are now akin to ghost towns and they have next-to-no NR service; Metrolink only to Manchester and nowt to Liverpool.

There's rail to Manchester via Stockport as well.

Altrincham really had too many shops built for the size of the town. At one end of the town centre some of the smaller shops have been merged in to larger shops, which was probably the best thing to do. However, at the other end things have been left alone at the moment.

 

[rebmcr]

There's rail to Manchester via Stockport as well.

One Pacer per hour doesn't count!

 

[northwichcat]

One Pacer per hour doesn't count!

It actually averages around 1 Pacer every 2.5 hours and 1 Sprinter every 1 hour 20 in each direction.

There's actually a few reasons for using the train ahead of Metrolink:
1. If the timings are convenient the train can get to Piccadilly faster than on Metrolink, subject to a clear run.
2. The train is cheaper than Metrolink and railcard discounts are available.
3. Bicycles and larger luggage cannot be conveyed on Metrolink but can be on the train.
4. If you are travelling beyond Manchester e.g. to Leeds the train gets you closer to where your connecting train will depart from. Also compensation arrangements in the event of disruption apply for your whole journey.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There's actually a few reasons for using the train ahead of Metrolink:
1. If the timings are convenient the train can get to Piccadilly faster than on Metrolink, subject to a clear run.
2. The train is cheaper than Metrolink and railcard discounts are available.
3. Bicycles and larger luggage cannot be conveyed on Metrolink but can be on the train.
4. If you are travelling beyond Manchester e.g. to Leeds the train gets you closer to where your connecting train will depart from. Also compensation arrangements in the event of disruption apply for your whole journey.

My responses would be:-
1. There are far more Metrolink services from Altrincham to Manchester in the time period that has been discussed.
2. Current usage comparison passenger loading figures between Metrolink and heavy rail would appear to show that passengers are not swayed by the cheaper rail price and are prepared to pay for the regularity and of the number availability of the number of trams per hour.
3. What is the recorded percentage of the total passenger loadings on the Altrincham to Manchester route who wish to bring bicycles with them on a journey.
4. Altrincham has Metrolink services that access the core of both Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria railway stations.

 

[northwichcat]

My responses would be:-
1. There are far more Metrolink services from Altrincham to Manchester in the time period that has been discussed.
2. Current usage comparison passenger loading figures between Metrolink and heavy rail would appear to show that passengers are not swayed by the cheaper rail price and are prepared to pay for the regularity and of the number availability of the number of trams per hour.
3. What is the recorded percentage of the total passenger loadings on the Altrincham to Manchester route who wish to bring bicycles with them on a journey.
4. Altrincham has Metrolink services that access the core of both Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria railway stations.

rebmcr was implying the trains are all Pacers and it's only hourly meaning it's a redundant service, so I was pointing out why that is not the case.

As Northern do not have mandatory cycle reservations there wouldn't be any official stats for bike usage. On one occasion on a train I was on the guard had to refuse boarding to a group of people who turned up with bicycles at Navigation Road wanting to board a Manchester bound train due to there not being room on board for the bicycles.