Manchester Victoria to Hebden Bridge out via Blackburn

[g22]

I want to travel from Manchester Victoria to Hebden Bridge and return. Off Peak weekday. No Railcard sadly. I would like to travel via Entwistle, Blackburn and Burnley on the way out and return via the direct route.

Is there a ticket which is definitely valid for this other than the Lancashire Day Ranger?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Manchester Stations - Burnley Manchester Road return should be valid, switching from the outward to the return portion at Burnley Manchester Road and breaking your return journey at Hebden Bridge.

 

[g22]

Thanks

 

[scrapy]

Is a Manchester stns to Burnley Manchester Rd ticket officially valid via Blackburn or Hebden Bridge? Can only get NRE to give fares direct via Todmorden. A Manchester to Accrington seems valid via Blackburn or Todmorden but not Hebden Bridge.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

According to the Routeing Guide, Burnley Manchester Road and Manchester Victoria share a common routeing point, Manchester Group, which means valid routes are by the shortest route. They are also valid for use on direct services.

I cannot find a mileage for the Todmorden Curve in the National Rail Timetable, but I think we can safely assume it is shorter than via Hebden Bridge.

Manchester Victoria to Hebden Bridge (table 41) and Hebden Bridge to Burnley Manchester Road (table 41) is a total of 36.25 miles (23.5 + 12.75)

Manchester Victoria to Blackburn (table 94) and Blackburn to Burnley Manchester Road (table 41) is a total of 37 miles (24.5 + 12.5)

There may be an easement, I haven't checked.

The routeings for available tickets are 'Any Permitted', 'Via Preston' and 'Via Todmorden'.

Via Preston costs more than Any Permitted, and Via Todmorden costs less. I think therefore it is implied that Manchester Victoria-Blackburn-Burnley Manchester Road is fine, but on a technical level I suspect it may not be.

As an alternative, might I suggest Manchester Stns to Accrington. It's about the same cost and the presence of a 'Via Bromley X' fare means there is definitely a permitted route via Blackburn (without having to go to Preston). There's still no guarantee of it being valid via Hebden Bridge, but it's not likely to be a big concern.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There is an easement allowing doubling back between Hebden Bridge and Halifax if you are travelling between the Rochdale and Burnley lines. I can get NRE to allow this.

Passengers may double back between Hebden Bridge and Halifax when changing
between the Rochdale-Halifax and the Burnley-Halifax lines. This easement applies in
both directions.

It appears that the new Todmorden curve has removed the route via Blackburn because it is no longer the shortest route, or within three miles of it. It is about four miles from Todmorden to Hebden Bridge and about four miles from Hebden Bridge to Stansfield Hall Junction; it is about 1/2 mile from Stansfield Hall to Todmorden (mileage from RTT).

I had assumed the presence of the cheaper VIA TODMORDEN meant the ANY PERMITTED was valid via Blackburn (another easement specifically bars it being valid via Preston).

 

[g22]

Thank you for your responses. It appears there is doubt about whether any of the tickets mentioned are valid both ways so I will just have to stick with the Lancashire Day Ranger I think.

 

[Merseysider]

Are the Northern newspaper tokens still being printed, or does the OP have any already? If so, that would be £10 for a day ticket and obviously valid either way.

 

[yorkie]

The route via Blackburn cannot be removed as permitted route without permission from the DfT as it is a longstanding permitted route.

Clearly no such permission has been sought, or given, as there is no evidence of any attempt to remove this from being permitted.

So you have nothing to worry about.

 

[g22]

The Virgin EC site will give me Manchester Victoria to Burnley Manchester Road direct, via Hebden Bridge and via Blackburn for £13.20 yet the EMT site
has no tickets available except for the direct trains!

 

[yorkie]

This is unsurprising. Each website has its own interpretation of the rules on routeing.

Most websites are correct most of the time.

I am unaware of any websites which are 100% correct all of the time.

(If you can get an itinerary issued in conjunction with your purchase, that's valid under consumer law and contract law, regardless of what the rules of routeing say)

 

[g22]

Thanks. I am moving back towards the idea of a Manchester to Burnley Manchester Road ticket.

 

[30907]

Thanks. I am moving back towards the idea of a Manchester to Burnley Manchester Road ticket.

I am fairly sure that via Hebden Bridge was permitted before the curve opened, and it may be that the Any Permitted route is intended to cover that AND via Blackburn.

ACR (etc) fares are peculiar, with two or three options at very similar prices, which seems pointless. I doubt if on-train staff are terribly worried, but I might be wrong.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I am fairly sure that via Hebden Bridge was permitted before the curve opened, and it may be that the Any Permitted route is intended to cover that AND via Blackburn.

Before the curve, the two choices were via Blackburn or via Hebden Bridge, and both were valid as the distances are within three miles of each other. Manchester and Burnley share a routeing point, which means the permitted route is the shortest route and any route less than three miles longer than the shortest route.

The curve has now shortened the route via Todmorden by about six miles, so the route via Blackburn is now more than three miles longer than the route via Todmorden. Using a strict interpretation of the rules, this now means the only permitted route is via Todmorden. Doubling-back via Hebden Bridge is permitted by easement.

In reality, I'd be astounded if any guard questioned the use of the ANY PERMITTED ticket via Blackburn, even leaving aside the issues Yorkie mentioned.