Mandatory stops

[PTR 444]

Excluding the termini of routes which obviously have to be called at, are local bus services legally required to stop at every stop shown in the route’s timetable*, regardless of whether passengers want to get on or off?

I ask this because although unlikely due to demand, there could be an instance where nobody wants to get off at an intermediate major stop and only one person is waiting to board. The person believes that being in a local centre, the bus will stop but because they are distracted looking at live departure times on their phone, the bus they want whizzes straight past!

Also I’d imagine drivers would have to stop at major stops anyway to keep to the timetable and avoid running early further down the line.

*By that I mean printed timetable, where only the major stops are shown. It would be ludicrous to have buses stopping at every single shack en route if nobody intends to utilise them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In short, no.

London used to have mandatory stops (must stop and open doors even if nobody is there) but doesn't any more. However it does have a hybrid rule (same as Germany) whereby the driver must stop for boarding unless sure people *don't* want that bus, though in practice people stick their hand out.

 

[PTR 444]

In short, no.

London used to have mandatory stops (must stop and open doors even if nobody is there) but doesn't any more. However it does have a hybrid rule (same as Germany) whereby the driver must stop for boarding unless sure people *don't* want that bus, though in practice people stick their hand out.

So what you’re saying is that a bus could skip every single timetabled stop if nobody wanted to get on or off? How would that help with timekeeping as the bus would end up running overly early!

 

[Bletchleyite]

So what you’re saying is that a bus could skip every single timetabled stop if nobody wanted to get on or off? How would that help with timekeeping as the bus would end up running overly early!

A bus should not pass or leave a registered timing point (more than one minute) early. That isn't quite the same as your original question, though; it only has to stop if it's early.

 

[mb88]

So what you’re saying is that a bus could skip every single timetabled stop if nobody wanted to get on or off? How would that help with timekeeping as the bus would end up running overly early!

Most London routes work on headway rather than schedule deviation but that’s another story. Elsewhere, if the bus was running early the driver would just wait at a stop or stops even if no one wanted on or off.

 

[GusB]

In my neck of the woods, if you're standing at a bus stop in the village, the bus will stop because there is only one bus service. If I'm in town at Tesco (first stop after the bus station) and waiting for the bus home, there is more than one service that stops there and all that is required is for you to move towards the kerb; that's enough of a signal that you wish to board, although I tend to put my hand out anyway to make it absolutely clear.

Likewise, if the bus approaching is not mine, I'll either shake my head or signal to the driver to carry on so that they don't have to stop - something which is obviously appreciated by drivers as I usually get a thumbs-up or a wave of thanks. I only do this if I'm the only one at the stop, though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In MK on hail and ride routes people often didn't hail and drivers got very good at working out who wanted the bus and stopping anyway! None left now I think, either withdrawn or converted to fixed stops.

 

[mb88]

In my neck of the woods, if you're standing at a bus stop in the village, the bus will stop because there is only one bus service. If I'm in town at Tesco (first stop after the bus station) and waiting for the bus home, there is more than one service that stops there and all that is required is for you to move towards the kerb; that's enough of a signal that you wish to board, although I tend to put my hand out anyway to make it absolutely clear.

Likewise, if the bus approaching is not mine, I'll either shake my head or signal to the driver to carry on so that they don't have to stop - something which is obviously appreciated by drivers as I usually get a thumbs-up or a wave of thanks. I only do this if I'm the only one at the stop, though.

Exactly this. I don’t mind if people don’t put their hand out as long as some sort of indication is given they want my bus, like you say just a step towards the kerb is enough. And I can definitely say us drivers do appreciate when people give a signal that they don’t want our bus as well. Sadly very few people do.

 

[Wolfie]

In my neck of the woods, if you're standing at a bus stop in the village, the bus will stop because there is only one bus service. If I'm in town at Tesco (first stop after the bus station) and waiting for the bus home, there is more than one service that stops there and all that is required is for you to move towards the kerb; that's enough of a signal that you wish to board, although I tend to put my hand out anyway to make it absolutely clear.

Likewise, if the bus approaching is not mine, I'll either shake my head or signal to the driver to carry on so that they don't have to stop - something which is obviously appreciated by drivers as I usually get a thumbs-up or a wave of thanks. I only do this if I'm the only one at the stop, though.

Exactly what l do in the Smoke.

 

[Titfield]

Some bus stops used to have the words "REQUEST STOP" on them thus advising prospective passengers they had to indicate to the driver they wished the bus to stop so they could board.

I always indicate to the driver I want to board, usually the use of the indicator by the driver confirming the request.

 

[Roger1973]

As others have said, timekeeping is mandatory, but stopping at individual stops isn't a specific legal requirement, and it wouldn't generally be regarded as a problem not to stop at a timing point if there were clearly no passengers wanting to get on or off, and it didn't result in going early. Although there might be a risk of passengers on the bus thinking that 'they always stop here, I don't need to ring the bell or move until the bus has stopped.)

London still has some stops marked as 'request stop' although neither drivers or passengers tend to see any difference now. (At one time, conductors or OPO drivers might say something to passengers who rang the bell approaching a compulsory stop.)

At one time, some bus stops were compulsory on safety grounds, e.g. stopping as a test of brakes just before going down a hill, although I think that with more modern buses, this concept probably doesn't exist any more. I'm aware this existed for trams and trolleybuses (sometimes known as 'board of trade' stops), I think I have heard of examples for buses as well, but can't think of any in particular.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Did Lothian not have a thing where they stopped at every stop?

 

[Eyersey468]

East Yorkshire has certain stops that are compulsory stops, all the stops round Hull City Centre, the stop outside the site of the old New York Hotel, Blind Institute on Beverley Road in Hull and York Piccadilly

 

[mb88]

Did Lothian not have a thing where they stopped at every stop?

Not that I’m aware of. The only thing I’m aware of that’s different with Lothian is that in the city centre you have to queue to serve a stop so if there’s another bus in front of you you have to wait until that has finished serving the stop, pull right up to the front and then allow people to board. Even if people walk down to you while the other bus is still there.

 

[Geordie driver]

Timing points have nothing to do with mandatory stops, if you want to get on signal by putting your hand out, drivers know to look out for visually impaired passengers.

If you want to fanny about with your phone or stand with your hands in your pockets, good luck.

A good driver will rarely be early at a timing point, there is an art to making sure when it is quiet you still don't arrive early.

As a passenger I hate when a driver sits waiting his time.

 

[Ken H]

...

At one time, some bus stops were compulsory on safety grounds, e.g. stopping as a test of brakes just before going down a hill, although I think that with more modern buses, this concept probably doesn't exist any more. I'm aware this existed for trams and trolleybuses (sometimes known as 'board of trade' stops), I think I have heard of examples for buses as well, but can't think of any in particular.

There used to be boards (think some are still there ) in the North Yorks Moors telling drivers to stop and engage first gear until the all clear board. Erected by United, but replaced by Tees. They were there in both directions, so first gear up AND down the hills. I assume modern buses with automatic gear boxes dont need this.

 

[Falcon1200]

A good driver will rarely be early at a timing point, there is an art to making sure when it is quiet you still don't arrive early.

My experience, mostly in Oxford, is that buses do arrive early at timing points, because there have been few stops required and/or traffic is light. It is difficult to see how that could be avoided, other than by stopping elsewhere even if no-one wants to get on or off, which is what often occurs at the timing point anyway. It can be annoying, particularly on the 14/14A routes to Oxford station which frequently stand in George St for several minutes with the engine off; It is just too far from the station to make alighting and walking faster !

 

[MotCO]

London still has some stops marked as 'request stop' although neither drivers or passengers tend to see any difference now. (At one time, conductors or OPO drivers might say something to passengers who rang the bell approaching a compulsory stop.)

I thought I had read somewhere that all London stops were effectively Request stops, irrespective of any wording on the flag. I would always stick my hand out unless the bus had indicated it was stopping.

 

[Contains Nuts]

Unless a bus is early then timing points do not require the bus to physically stop. The only mid-route compulsory stops would generally be at bus stations, particularly those where the bus is required to reverse off the stand or those with doors separating the passengers from the vehicle apron.

 

[AM9]

I thought I had read somewhere that all London stops were effectively Request stops, irrespective of any wording on the flag. I would always stick my hand out unless the bus had indicated it was stopping.

Since I was a pre-school child, I've known that LT bus stops with a white background were compulsory and had red backgrounds (red buses and trolleybuses) and green backgrounds (country buses and Greenline) for requests. Since moving nearer to London I've not really noticed what bus stops are like now, especially as most of my LT bus travel is in central london where most stops seem to have stands.

 

[Roger1973]

LT bus stops with a white background were compulsory and had red backgrounds (red buses and trolleybuses) and green backgrounds (country buses and Greenline) for requests

just a minor pedantic point - LT bus stops were red in the country area as well - Green Line coaches were limited stop in the country area as well, so there needed to be a difference.

example (not my photo) at Joyce Green Hospital, Dartford (with Maidstone PD2s pretending to be green buses)

I believe there are still one or two in the undergrowth in the home counties...

There were also blue versions for LT tram stops (although many stops continued to keep their pre LT stop flags until the end) photo of one (again not mine) at Crich Museum (not sure if this is an original or reproduction) - from photos I have seen, LT trolleybuses served standard bus stops.

 

[Ken H]

just a minor pedantic point - LT bus stops were red in the country area as well - Green Line coaches were limited stop in the country area as well, so there needed to be a difference.

example (not my photo) at Joyce Green Hospital, Dartford (with Maidstone PD2s pretending to be green buses)

I believe there are still one or two in the undergrowth in the home counties...

There were also blue versions for LT tram stops (although many stops continued to keep their pre LT stop flags until the end) photo of one (again not mine) at Crich Museum (not sure if this is an original or reproduction) - from photos I have seen, LT trolleybuses served standard bus stops.

There were the coloured finials on top of the bus stop posts. Red for inner London, green for London country. Some had both. Pic here https://citytransport.info/Album/Bus-C-Coach-Ca.jpg

Link shows LT concrete bus stop with a red and green finial. Image only.

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

I don't believe there are any mandatory stops in Leeds (except for termini of course) but there are certain stops on some routes where I can't imagine a bus would ever drive past without stopping. The corn exchange stop(s) for the 2/3/12/13 routes for example.

 

[MotCO]

There were the coloured finials on top of the bus stop posts. Red for inner London, green for London country. Some had both. Pic here https://citytransport.info/Album/Bus-C-Coach-Ca.jpg

Link shows LT concrete bus stop with a red and green finial. Image only.

Were the finials to denote fare stages? Green for Green Line, Red for green and red buses?

just a minor pedantic point - LT bus stops were red in the country area as well - Green Line coaches were limited stop in the country area as well, so there needed to be a difference.

example (not my photo) at Joyce Green Hospital, Dartford (with Maidstone PD2s pretending to be green buses)

I believe there are still one or two in the undergrowth in the home counties...

There were also blue versions for LT tram stops (although many stops continued to keep their pre LT stop flags until the end) photo of one (again not mine) at Crich Museum (not sure if this is an original or reproduction) - from photos I have seen, LT trolleybuses served standard bus stops.

In addition, the Croydon Tram link uses blue and green roundels; taxis use purple roundels.

Picture of Tramlink sign: https://www.flickr.com/photos/24772...4-2gCgnF1-2kEm5Tu-fe9YA1-br8Pdo-Dhm6d6-8jkLY7

Picture of Taxi roundel: https://www.flickr.com/photos/keith...VGtbD-2gVGrB1-2gVGsLF-2gVFC6d-2gVGtyT-2gVFBdw

 

[Roger1973]

Were the finials to denote fare stages? Green for Green Line, Red for green and red buses?

Fairly sure the red / green finials matched the bus / coach stop (I can't recall ever seeing a coach stop that wasn't a 50/50 bus and coach stop but there must have been some)

Fare stages had a separate plate on the edge of the bus stop, either a black circle or a red rectangle

 

[MotCO]

Fairly sure the red / green finials matched the bus / coach stop (I can't recall ever seeing a coach stop that wasn't a 50/50 bus and coach stop but there must have been some)

Fare stages had a separate plate on the edge of the bus stop, either a black circle or a red rectangle

Some finials were 'spiral-like', and others were just a 'blob'. Was the difference significant?

 

[AM9]

Fairly sure the red / green finials matched the bus / coach stop (I can't recall ever seeing a coach stop that wasn't a 50/50 bus and coach stop but there must have been some)

Fare stages had a separate plate on the edge of the bus stop, either a black circle or a red rectangle

There were of course bus stops that were compulsory for local red buses and request for green line services, so one part was white background and other green.

 

[DunsBus]

Not that I’m aware of. The only thing I’m aware of that’s different with Lothian is that in the city centre you have to queue to serve a stop so if there’s another bus in front of you you have to wait until that has finished serving the stop, pull right up to the front and then allow people to board. Even if people walk down to you while the other bus is still there.

Some Lothian routes did have bits which were hail and ride - for instance the 3, 3A, 28 and 30 beyond Wester Hailes Centre, the evening and Sunday 19/39 journeys on Boswall Road and Primrose Bank Road in Trinity - but that was a long time ago now. Most notable was the 82 which, on journeys towards Rosewell, operated hail and ride on a section of Eskbank Road in Dalkeith.

I'm sure too that the rural sections of routes such as the West Lothian routes 9, 63 and 64, Midlothian routes 80 and 82, and East Lothian routes 26, 85 and 86 were also hail and ride.

 

[MotCO]

There were of course bus stops that were compulsory for local red buses and request for green line services, so one part was white background and other green.

And I believe there was at least one example when it was a compulsory stop for Green Line coaches, but request stop for buses which sounds counter-intuitive.

 

[DJ_K666]

In Brighton there was one stop that was compulsory and that was the stop for the Blind Veterans building at Ovingdean (Formerly St Dunstans) since anyone waiting there might be blind and therefore unable to tell whether the bus was theirs or not. Of course the exception to this was the linited stop 12X and 13X routes which didn't stop there anyway. Used to get a lot of foreign students (and I mean huge crowds of them) waiting there and when a half empty bus went past non stop it caused comments but that was mainly in the summer.