May 2014 timetable changes

[Sheepy1209]

Have a look at Outwood's services, 2tph but at xx:59 and xx:14 to Leeds! THAT is bad! (the changes move it to 15 and 30).

How about Blackpool North - 4tph to Preston at 03, 11, 21, 40 (i.e. 8, 10, 19 and 23 minute intervals). And the xx:40 sometimes is at xx:44 instead.

The trade-off of course is that Blackpool has more destinations (Manchester Victoria (+Huddersfield), Man Picc / Airport, York and Liverpool) but it does result in a bit of a scrum at Preston sometimes.

 

[Thomas6187]

How about Blackpool North - 4tph to Preston at 03, 11, 21, 40 (i.e. 8, 10, 19 and 23 minute intervals). And the xx:40 sometimes is at xx:44 instead.

That's more spaced out than it is at the moment as 4 trains leave within 20-24 minutes (xx20, xx29, xx35, xx40-44) and nothing for the other 36.

 

[northwichcat]

TPE have put a lot of effort in to ensure people are aware of the upcoming timetable changes - posters at stations, regular announcements on board trains meaning regular passengers have no excuse for not knowing that the times are changing.

 

[yorksrob]

Well, I've just been looking at the new West Yorkshire timetable. Wish I hadn't now as it' s ruined my day.

I have to hand it to them, they've managed to ruin the few things that actually worked about the old timetable whilsk keeping everything that was rubbish the same.

I think I can sum it up thus: In introducing the extra trans pennine, they have made the stopping patterns more complicated whilst nothing much seems to have improved. The Calder valley line now has a change in the middle of the day when the stoppers change from via Dewsbury to via Halifax. The worst thing is that at either end of trans pennine, you still have the same motley collection os stupidly early last trains and sparse evening services.

I've looked hard to find some benefit in this new timetable but there are none for me. It's all bad.

 

[30907]

WThe Calder valley line now has a change in the middle of the day when the stoppers change from via Dewsbury to via Halifax.

Sorry, can't spot that anywhere. Can you give an example?

 

[Dunc108]

TPE have put a lot of effort in to ensure people are aware of the upcoming timetable changes - posters at stations, regular announcements on board trains meaning regular passengers have no excuse for not knowing that the times are changing.

Yes Northern have put up posters, but TPEs are more noticable with big bold text and a bit more colourful.

 

[northwichcat]

I've looked hard to find some benefit in this new timetable but there are none for me. It's all bad.

I don't think the new North TPE timetable is as good as most people were envisaging.

When 5tph on North TPE was originally proposed (well before electrification and Ordsall Chord announcements) the plan was a Manchester Piccadilly to York service every 15 minutes with an off-pattern Manchester Victoria to Hull service.

Now with the new timetable there's 4tph between York and Manchester but one service goes in to Victoria and the York-Airport service runs 12 minutes behind the Scarborough-Liverpool meaning a 31 gap in service between York-Piccadilly services.

In their North TPE timetable TPE haven't shown any connections available by changing to other operator's services e.g. like you can catch Northern services between Victoria and Stalybridge to connect to and from the Hull and Scarborough services. That could well mean people who just miss a connection might wait an hour for the next direct service when they could get there sooner by changing.

It'll be interesting to see what effect the new timetable has on peak services, particularly those in to Leeds in the morning peak and out of Leeds in the evening peak. There aren't actually any extra services between Leeds and Huddersfield in the evening peak now with the extra Hull-Huddersfield service going, so the likely improvement will be more carriages on some (but not all) busy services.

 

[berneyarms]

Well, I've just been looking at the new West Yorkshire timetable. Wish I hadn't now as it' s ruined my day.

I have to hand it to them, they've managed to ruin the few things that actually worked about the old timetable whilsk keeping everything that was rubbish the same.

I think I can sum it up thus: In introducing the extra trans pennine, they have made the stopping patterns more complicated whilst nothing much seems to have improved. The Calder valley line now has a change in the middle of the day when the stoppers change from via Dewsbury to via Halifax. The worst thing is that at either end of trans pennine, you still have the same motley collection os stupidly early last trains and sparse evening services.

I've looked hard to find some benefit in this new timetable but there are none for me. It's all bad.

Sorry, can't spot that anywhere. Can you give an example?

I can't see that either?

The pattern stays the same pretty much throughout the day in either direction as far as I can tell.

 

[Hebden Bridger]

There's certainly no stoppers via Halifax from early morning to the evening rush hour - even Sunday services have received a welcome speed up, but not (as I posted earlier) weekday and Saturday evening services which remain somewhat annoyingly all stations only.

I would personally be all in favour of a switch in the stopping service if it meant a fast service via Dewsbury. Leaving out the crawl via Halifax and Bradford could mean a cut in the journey time from Hebden Bridge to Leeds from 50min to roundabout 30min. A pipedream I know

 

[Wolf]

There's certainly no stoppers via Halifax from early morning to the evening rush hour - even Sunday services have received a welcome speed up, but not (as I posted earlier) weekday and Saturday evening services which remain somewhat annoyingly all stations only.

I would personally be all in favour of a switch in the stopping service if it meant a fast service via Dewsbury. Leaving out the crawl via Halifax and Bradford could mean a cut in the journey time from Hebden Bridge to Leeds from 50min to roundabout 30min. A pipedream I know

I think he may mean the unit diagrams as apose to actual service stopping patterns. Their all interlinked - the lds - mcv via brighouse, lds-mcv via Bradford slow and lds-mcv via Bradford semi fast. Previously the lds - mcv via brighouse services were inter worked only with the lds to Hud stoppers so basically now you have xx26 lds to mcv via brighouse and then that unit then goes on to work xx16 mcv - Leeds via Halifax and so on . this actually means you now get a greater mixture of units working lds - mcv via brighouse including 3 car 158s instead of before when pretty much all the diagrams via brighouse were self contained with the Huddersfield stoppers and mainly 14xs. Probably the only improvement in the entire new timetable

 

[yorksrob]

Basically, the stopper from Leeds to Victoria goes via Dewsbury up until about half past 7 in the evening. From around half past eight, the return services go via Halifax, which means that for a day trip I have to get a ticket from Leeds, rather than from Dewsbury/Bradford, so I can't use my Metrocard for the first stretch.

I've resigned myself to using the more expensive Standedge route, but even then, the train from Vic via Stalybridge which which facilitates this, has been pushed back about twenty minutes, which is also less convenient for me.

 

[Dunc108]

How about Blackpool North - 4tph to Preston at 03, 11, 21, 40 (i.e. 8, 10, 19 and 23 minute intervals). And the xx:40 sometimes is at xx:44 instead.

The trade-off of course is that Blackpool has more destinations (Manchester Victoria (+Huddersfield), Man Picc / Airport, York and Liverpool) but it does result in a bit of a scrum at Preston sometimes.

I think Blackpool - Huddersfield would have had far more value with a return working instead of Wigan Wallgate..

 

[Sheepy1209]

I think Blackpool - Huddersfield would have had far more value with a return working instead of Wigan Wallgate..

Agreed - but then I do rather like the station bars at Huddersfield

Something else I've noticed re Blackpool since the change is that if travelling from Crewe to Blackpool the booking engines have started telling you to change at Wigan North Western instead of Preston, boarding the ex-Liverpool service. I don't understand why, as it's about a 20-minute connection so would be fine at Preston. While Wigan's an easier change than Preston it limits options if services are disrupted - I'd rather stay on to Preston and take whatever BPN train comes next.

Another change that seems to have happened is that Poulton-le-Fylde gets the same four trains per hour as Blackpool North - previously the Liverpool trains were non-stop Blackpool - Preston, done that way I believe to clear the line for the next service that followed a few minutes later. That's definitely an improvement.

 

[Dunc108]

Agreed - but then I do rather like the station bars at Huddersfield

Something else I've noticed re Blackpool since the change is that if travelling from Crewe to Blackpool the booking engines have started telling you to change at Wigan North Western instead of Preston, boarding the ex-Liverpool service. I don't understand why, as it's about a 20-minute connection so would be fine at Preston. While Wigan's an easier change than Preston it limits options if services are disrupted - I'd rather stay on to Preston and take whatever BPN train comes next.

Another change that seems to have happened is that Poulton-le-Fylde gets the same four trains per hour as Blackpool North - previously the Liverpool trains were non-stop Blackpool - Preston, done that way I believe to clear the line for the next service that followed a few minutes later. That's definitely an improvement.

Yes you have a point, at least at Preston you have the option to board other services to, say, Lancaster if things went pear shaped at Wigan!

 

[30907]

Basically, the stopper from Leeds to Victoria goes via Dewsbury up until about half past 7 in the evening. From around half past eight, the return services go via Halifax.

But that's not a random change "in the middle of the day" - it's the only service in the evenings (which I agree is still poor).

 

[Hebden Bridger]

I think he may mean the unit diagrams as apose to actual service stopping patterns. Their all interlinked - the lds - mcv via brighouse, lds-mcv via Bradford slow and lds-mcv via Bradford semi fast. Previously the lds - mcv via brighouse services were inter worked only with the lds to Hud stoppers so basically now you have xx26 lds to mcv via brighouse and then that unit then goes on to work xx16 mcv - Leeds via Halifax and so on . this actually means you now get a greater mixture of units working lds - mcv via brighouse including 3 car 158s instead of before when pretty much all the diagrams via brighouse were self contained with the Huddersfield stoppers and mainly 14xs. Probably the only improvement in the entire new timetable

Oh no, so Victoria to Bradford services are being speeded up but some Sprinters will be replaced by Pacers. I don't believe this, at least at the moment a Pacer is rarely seen on on the route (except on the abominable evening services).

 

[James268]

Basically, the stopper from Leeds to Victoria goes via Dewsbury up until about half past 7 in the evening. From around half past eight, the return services go via Halifax, which means that for a day trip I have to get a ticket from Leeds, rather than from Dewsbury/Bradford, so I can't use my Metrocard for the first stretch.

I've resigned myself to using the more expensive Standedge route, but even then, the train from Vic via Stalybridge which which facilitates this, has been pushed back about twenty minutes, which is also less convenient for me.

The Vic-Leeds evening services always ran hourly at XX:21 (starting 19:21) via halifax & Bradford before the timetable change anyway (until 22:28 & the last at 23:20). The daytime stoppers run via Brighouse as they did previously.

It seems there is no change on the routes, just timing changes.

One thing I have noticed is that the 18:21 (WTT) into Vic from Leeds only has a 5 minute layover, leaving at 18:26 to return to Leeds. That's just 3 minutes if you consider the public timetable. It seems that there are a handful of tight turnarounds and some that have really long (upto 45 mins) stands Eg. 14:41 Arr and 15:26 Dep.

 

[northwichcat]

I think Blackpool - Huddersfield would have had far more value with a return working instead of Wigan Wallgate..

I agree. Seeing 'Blackpool' on the departures display at Huddersfield may make some people find out more about trains to Blackpool.

I seem to recall running a Huddersfield-Blackpool through service was looked at when the December 08 changes went ahead but when it became clear that insufficient Sprinters would be available and Northern would have to utilise 180s on some services, that idea was dropped.

 

[Hebden Bridger]

Basically, the stopper from Leeds to Victoria goes via Dewsbury up until about half past 7 in the evening. From around half past eight, the return services go via Halifax, which means that for a day trip I have to get a ticket from Leeds, rather than from Dewsbury/Bradford, so I can't use my Metrocard for the first stretch.

I've resigned myself to using the more expensive Standedge route, but even then, the train from Vic via Stalybridge which which facilitates this, has been pushed back about twenty minutes, which is also less convenient for me.

I'm still confused by this - the only change in calling patterns in the Calder Valley timetable is that the daytime slower Leeds to Victoria service via Bradford now runs fast between Todmorden and Rochdale and the Victoria to Rochdale service is extended to Todmorden to compensate.

This does mean a change of train at Tod for anyone travelling from Bradford or Halifax to Walsden, Littleborough or Smithy Bridge (and vice versa).

As a result of public comments made on the draft timetable (including mine!) and lobbying by Wymetro and TfGM the stops were reinstated on a couple of morning trains towards Bradford and a couple of evening trains back, catering for commuters into Halifax and Bradford. But there wasn't a significant passenger flow in the other direction.

But you appear to be travelling from Leeds to Manchester, how do these changes affect you?

 

[Dunc108]

I agree. Seeing 'Blackpool' on the departures display at Huddersfield may make some people find out more about trains to Blackpool.

I seem to recall running a Huddersfield-Blackpool through service was looked at when the December 08 changes went ahead but when it became clear that insufficient Sprinters would be available and Northern would have to utilise 180s on some services, that idea was dropped.

Yes, its a shame some York - Blackpool 158 workings didn't go via Huddersfield but operated as a semi-fast and a far more suitable unit than enduring it in a 142 or 150, it would also feel like a genuine Trans-Pennine service instead of an all-stations endurance test!

Saying that the last thing the Huddersfield route needs right now is more congestion/confusion!

 

[Wolf]

Oh no, so Victoria to Bradford services are being speeded up but some Sprinters will be replaced by Pacers. I don't believe this, at least at the moment a Pacer is rarely seen on on the route (except on the abominable evening services).

Yeh the unit diagrams for the Calder valley are definitely interlinked with the brighouse diagrams. There were pacers previously on the Calder valley diagrams before the timetable change because the lds - Vic Calder valley unit diagrams were interlinked with the selby - leeds - brighouse - Huddersfield services , which is no more

 

[61653 HTAFC]

One big plus is the fact that Deighton/Mirfield services from Huddersfield are more evenly spaced, roughly every 30mins, rather than the previous situation (which had been that way for at least a decade) of the Leeds leaving at XX31 and the Wakefield being XX36.

Had a run up to Wakefield Kirkgate earlier, and noticed that the 1831 (from HUD) to Wakefield ran back round the curve from Westgate after terminating, to stable in Kirkgate's centre road then runs back up to Westgate to start the return rather than using the turnback siding at Westgate! I asked the guard about it, thinking there might be something out-of-the-ordinary, but apparently it's a diagrammed move for that service only. Nothing else uses the Westgate turnback siding so I can't for the life of me work out why such a move takes place... Any ideas?

By the way, it's good to see that the Kirkgate refurbishment has moved on to the serious business of the main building (even though the current pedestrian route is rather circuitous!).

 

[Starmill]

But that's not a random change "in the middle of the day" - it's the only service in the evenings (which I agree is still poor).

Was it not the only service in the evening in the previous timetable? Has there ever been an evening or Sunday Leeds - Manchester vic via Brighouse?

 

[northwichcat]

On paper it sounded like the May 2014 changes would benefit the Wigan area but it seems some will be disadvantaged by the changes:



http://www.wigantoday.net/news/local/train-timetable-blow-for-students-1-6546445

Looks to have been solved now

As from 6 October, 2014 the 0615 Huddersfield – Southport (0703 from Manchester Victoria) will be diverted to run via Atherton instead of via Bolton. This is to provide a connectional opportunity from the Atherton line to Orrell for students attending Winstanley College. The 0602 Buxton – Kirkby (0701 from Manchester Victoria) will now additionally call at Westhoughton.

To provide an improved commuter service at Westhoughton, the 1638 Manchester Victoria – Wigan North Western will additionally call at Westhoughton from 6 October, 2014. This service will now omit to call at Hindley. To compensate, there will be an additional stop at Hindley on the 1706 Manchester Airport – Southport service. (1723 from Manchester Piccadilly).

http://www.transportforgreatermanch...l_rail_service_performance_and_station_issues