May 2018 timetable changes

[thealexweb]

...TPE Manchester-Scotland trains run via Bolton...

 

[Fred26]

What website are you using to see these? The trains currently in the system are the trains that will NOT be running in May 2018 and are merely holding paths. How can you see what the headcodes are, I am using Open Train Times and I can just see the headcodes as "FRGT".

Adam

Sorry, the headcodes are in TRUST. I checked both sources and I thought headcodes were shown in both.
I can't see why these trains wouldn't be running. What makes you say that?

 

[rg177]

This will be a weird one if it comes to fruition-

http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/G26340/2018-07-05

Seems that they're freeing up a unit by running the 1612 Glasgow-Newcastle via Carlisle later from Carlisle onwards (about 18:50), then letting it pick up the Dunston call of what I assume is currently another service, then running right through to Morpeth.

All other services from the Glasgow Southwestern onto the Tyne Valley appear to terminate at Carlisle except for the early Dumfries-Newcastle services.

 

[Bevan Price]

This was at the agreement of St. Helens Council, Merseytravel and TPE. It is no secret that the parking facilities and public transport at Junction are woeful and St. Helens Council/Network Rail have been struggling to come up with a solution to the overflow onto street parking around Junction. Whilst I agree that the waiting facilities at Junction are significantly better currently, the 'express' TPE stopping there might be the incentive required to improve facilities at Lea Green, which is likely to be a lot easier than at Junction without the heritage issues and with both land and height to work. So I am mildly optimistic about this solution, and only await a name change from Lea Green to St. Helens South.

I might have known that our useless council had some input. Although I am a Labour supporter, my opinion of our council better not appear here. Suffice to say that another of their ideas is to blight local roads with lots more lorries, by allowing "distribution centres" to be built on green belt land. They also support a distribution centre / railfreight depot on the Parkside Colliery site - but I remain unconvinced that many freight operators will want to use it when they already have nearby facilities in the Liverpool & Manchester areas, plus a site at Ditton (Widnes).

Meanwhile, work has just started on enlarging the car park at St. Helens Junction, with claims that the capacity will be approximately doubled....

 

[SprinterMan]

Sorry, the headcodes are in TRUST. I checked both sources and I thought headcodes were shown in both.
I can't see why these trains wouldn't be running. What makes you say that?

I don't want to seem rude, but I work for them and have seen the staff brief. I am unsure of what I am allowed to share hence why I am acting somewhat aloof. The trains shown are the ones that aren't running, hence there are trains terminating at Blackfriars from the North. The WGC trains will run to Sevenoaks, but only from December 2019. Check the operator code, they are ZZ.

Adam

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Manchester Airport-Stalybridge appears to be 3 minutes slower via the Ordsall Curve than by reversing across the layout at Piccadilly via Guide Bridge.
Two extra stops of course, at Oxford Road and Victoria.
Is that what was anticipated?​

 

[BMIFlyer]

Manchester Airport-Stalybridge appears to be 3 minutes slower via the Ordsall Curve than by reversing across the layout at Piccadilly via Guide Bridge.
Two extra stops of course, at Oxford Road and Victoria.
Is that what was anticipated?​

The objective is to avoid conflicting movements at Piccadilly and subsequent delays. The journey will speed up over the next year or so via linespeed improvements.

 

[Fred26]

I don't want to seem rude, but I work for them and have seen the staff brief. I am unsure of what I am allowed to share hence why I am acting somewhat aloof. The trains shown are the ones that aren't running, hence there are trains terminating at Blackfriars from the North. The WGC trains will run to Sevenoaks, but only from December 2019. Check the operator code, they are ZZ.

Adam

Fine, but you're not the only one who works for them. As I said, TRUST shows these trains (when I checked a week ago they were not there). I cannot see why so many trains would be in the system if they weren't genuine.
The trains I saw today are Cambridge-Brighton/Maidstone/Ashford. None are shown terminating at Blackfriars and all are shown with class 9 headcodes.

 

[SprinterMan]

Fine, but you're not the only one who works for them. As I said, TRUST shows these trains (when I checked a week ago they were not there). I cannot see why so many trains would be in the system if they weren't genuine.
The trains I saw today are Cambridge-Brighton/Maidstone/Ashford. None are shown terminating at Blackfriars and all are shown with class 9 headcodes.

If you have trust access you likely outrank me :P This is an example of the Blackfriars terminating paths: http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/P92010/2018-06-27

A staff email was recently sent out specifying that the Maidstone/Ashford trains would not be starting until December 2019.

Adam

 

[Fred26]

I don't know what parameters you've put in for that, but if you look at 21 May, Finsbury Park, that'll show you what I'm referring to.

 

[Starmill]

The objective is to avoid conflicting movements at Piccadilly and subsequent delays. The journey will speed up over the next year or so via linespeed improvements.

I find it hard to believe that journeys from Manchester Piccadilly to Leeds will be able to gain 15 minutes through line speed improvements over the next year or so? There are a large number of journeys at 49 min at present but many seem to be increasing to 63 or 64 mins on indicative timings.

 

[BMIFlyer]

I find it hard to believe that journeys from Manchester Piccadilly to Leeds will be able to gain 15 minutes through line speed improvements over the next year or so? There are a large number of journeys at 49 min at present but many seem to be increasing to 63 or 64 mins on indicative timings.

The end plan by 2020 is that TPE will take 40 mins from Man Vic (so 50-52 from Picc) to Leeds

 

[YorkshireBear]

The end plan by 2020 is that TPE will take 40 mins from Man Vic (so 50-52 from Picc) to Leeds

Some journeys for May in Open Train Times ( usual caveate applied )achieve less than 49 from LDS to MCV

 

[YorkshireBear]

Could all be moot now until December 2018. http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news...ugh_Bolton_delayed_by_a_further_SEVEN_months/

 

[BMIFlyer]

Some journeys for May in Open Train Times ( usual caveate applied )achieve less than 49 from LDS to MCV

Correct and the ultimate aim is for 40 minutes just calling at Huddersfield only.

Could all be moot now until December 2018. http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news...ugh_Bolton_delayed_by_a_further_SEVEN_months/

Yes this is today's big news but we already knew of it. This shouldn't affect TPE much except that the backup plan is to run Scottish trains after Manchester Oxford Road non stop to Preston via Wigan NW and vice versa. Bearing in mind Northern will be running via Wigan NW on the new Lancaster service from Manchester and will call there.

All to be confirmed after further Network Rail updates of course.

 

[northwichcat]

This shouldn't affect TPE much

There are a significant number of Northern changes penciled in for May 2018 which are a direct result of North TPE e.g. running a Liverpool-Warrington-Manchester Airport service to plug the gap left by the Scarborough service switching to Chat Moss and also indirect e.g. the times of pretty much all the southbound services out of Piccadilly changing.

 

[cuccir]

Good to see the TPE Manchester Airport-Newcastle service fully implemented. The early morning York > Glasgow Central CrossCountry service seems to have gone - it was only introduced in December! Is this deliberate or do we think it's just not uploaded yet

An interesting addition on the ECML is the early morning services Saltburn/Middlesbrough > Darlington > Durham > Newcastle are now extended to Carlisle - I think this confirms the intention to run the Northern Connect service via Darlington/Durham and not the Durham Coast. This will be the first through trains to the Tyne Valley from Darlington/Durham in a long time.

 

[BMIFlyer]

There are a significant number of Northern changes penciled in for May 2018 which are a direct result of North TPE e.g. running a Liverpool-Warrington-Manchester Airport service to plug the gap left by the Scarborough service switching to Chat Moss and also indirect e.g. the times of pretty much all the southbound services out of Piccadilly changing.

Yes that is correct but I have been informed today that the majority of changes at TPE won't be affected and will still happen. The major issues are the timings of the Man Air to Scotland trains as they might now have to run via Wigan non stop instead of Bolton non stop/pickup/set down only.

The movement of all Liverpool TPE trains to Chat Moss should still happen. Can't see why it won't.

 

[Mathew S]

Yes that is correct but I have been informed today that the majority of changes at TPE won't be affected and will still happen. The major issues are the timings of the Man Air to Scotland trains as they might now have to run via Wigan non stop instead of Bolton non stop/pickup/set down only.

The movement of all Liverpool TPE trains to Chat Moss should still happen. Can't see why it won't.

@BMIFlyer That's good to know. Both the Barrow/Windermere's and Scotlands have run via Wigan in the past (with both stopping, in fact) so there's certainly capacity, subject to other changes and as you say the pathing constraints to/from the airport and through castlefield.

 

[Mathew S]

Manchester Airport-Stalybridge appears to be 3 minutes slower via the Ordsall Curve than by reversing across the layout at Piccadilly via Guide Bridge.
Two extra stops of course, at Oxford Road and Victoria.
Is that what was anticipated?​

Given the extra stops I think that's pretty good actually!

 

[northwichcat]

Given the extra stops I think that's pretty good actually!

Presumably the time the unit sits at Piccadilly has been reduced significantly as Piccadilly to Huddersfield takes significantly longer via the Ordsall Chord than via Guide Bridge.

 

[Mathew S]

Presumably the time the unit sits at Piccadilly has been reduced significantly as Piccadilly to Huddersfield takes significantly longer via the Ordsall Chord than via Guide Bridge.

They were aiming for 90 secs max dwell time at Piccadilly 13/14 were they not? That would explain it if so.

 

[Starmill]

Can't see why it won't.

I think what jcollins was referring to was the reason why this change has already been delayed - the lack of Northern units to replace the service.

However, given that it is being downgraded to a 75mph it could be possible to find something to resource it.

 

[northwichcat]

I think what jcollins was referring to was the reason why this change has already been delayed - the lack of Northern units to replace the service.

However, given that it is being downgraded to a 75mph it could be possible to find something to resource it.

What I was getting at is there's really 3 categories new Northern services fall in to:
1. Ones that are direct replacements for services currently operated by TPE e.g. Airport to Liverpool via Warrington and consequently it's essential they start if the TPE changes go ahead.
2. Ones which fit around the new TPE services, meaning it would be headache for planners if they don't go ahead at the same time, even if it's not essential they happen at the same time.
3. Ones that just need extra rolling stock and can be done at anytime e.g. Retford changes.

 

[Thomas6187]

XC appear to be increasing calls at Macclesfield with the Manchester-Bristol services calling on most if not all trains now.

The Stockport-Stalybridge train is moving to Saturday at 09:45

 

[Chester1]

The Stockport-Stalybridge train is moving to Saturday at 09:45

That is much better for anyone who works Monday to Friday day time and means day tickets are valid.

 

[DenmarkRail]

Anything @ Stafford?

 

[Halish Railway]

Anything @ Stafford?

More XC services calling at Macclesfield.

 

[Marton]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/NNT/2018/05/21/0200-0159?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt

Some interesting things on the Esk Valley.

• Loss of early middlecrough nunthorpe train.Only 2 trains shown to whitby, but 4 back.
• Carlisle, Hexham and Darlington as origins.
• Carlisle to Danby and danby to metrocentre
• Battersby to metrocentre, but no obvious inbound service unless it splits from the whitby to Hexham service. Seems inefficient but might explain the imbalance in/out at whitby.
• A saltburn to nunthorpe train with reversal at middlesbrough. Perhaps of interest to trivia collectors as a reversal in service.

I suspect there is work to be done here

 

[Ian Brown]

XC appear to be increasing calls at Macclesfield with the Manchester-Bristol services calling on most if not all trains now.

The Stockport-Stalybridge train is moving to Saturday at 09:45

Open Train Times seems to also show several peak hour trains stopping at Guide Bride and Stalybridge then stops to Huddersfield. Hope these stops last