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Media Coverage of COVID -19

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AdamWW

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A very large fraction of paper's surviving circulation is to pensioners.
I doubt pensioners want to hear about how their selfishness is causing colossal damage to everyone else in society do they?

No.

And personally I don't think that's true anyway.

Even if you think the primary aim of the restrictions is to save the lives of pensioners, I don't see how you can accuse them of selfishness since they aren't directly determining government policy.
 
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Bantamzen

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No.

And personally I don't think that's true anyway.

Even if you think the primary aim of the restrictions is to save the lives of pensioners, I don't see how you can accuse them of selfishness since they aren't directly determining government policy.

I suppose that demands on whom the government are looking to for support?
 

AdamWW

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I suppose that demands on whom the government are looking to for support?

Yes...but even if the government is basing its policies on what will likely make me vote for them next time round, I don't think that in itself makes me selfish because of it.
 

Bantamzen

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Yes...but even if the government is basing its policies on what will likely make me vote for them next time round, I don't think that in itself makes me selfish because of it.

No, but the "don't kill Granny" might be thought as going down well with part of their core base, which in a way is selfish of that party & by proxy it's members who ought to be pushing for younger people's lives to be equally important.
 

AdamWW

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No, but the "don't kill Granny" might be thought as going down well with part of their core base, which in a way is selfish of that party & by proxy it's members who ought to be pushing for younger people's lives to be equally important.

Not sure how much influence party members actually have. But even so that presupposes they agree that the restrictions are based on the principle of sacrificing the young to save the lives of pensioners.
 

Skimpot flyer

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Not sure how much influence party members actually have. But even so that presupposes they agree that the restrictions are based on the principle of sacrificing the young to save the lives of pensioners.
Yet if the economic damage continues unabated, less young people will have jobs, less tax income will be received, more benefits will need to be paid out... and government may eventually be forced to admit ‘current levels of State Pension are unaffordable’ and make cuts / raise the age (again!) at which today’s youngsters will be able to claim a pension
 

Bantamzen

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Not sure how much influence party members actually have. But even so that presupposes they agree that the restrictions are based on the principle of sacrificing the young to save the lives of pensioners.

Well the card carrying members do fund the party, so I'd say they have at least an "in" on government policy.
 

HSTEd

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Yet if the economic damage continues unabated, less young people will have jobs, less tax income will be received, more benefits will need to be paid out... and government may eventually be forced to admit ‘current levels of State Pension are unaffordable’ and make cuts / raise the age (again!) at which today’s youngsters will be able to claim a pension
The Government will burn down the rest of the public sector before it even thinks of touching the state pension payouts to existing pensioners.
 

Skimpot flyer

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The Government will burn down the rest of the public sector before it even thinks of touching the state pension payouts to existing pensioners.
I think you misread my post? I said today’s youngsters will find their future State Pension may be something the future government may not be able to afford
 

nlogax

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I think you misread my post? I said today’s youngsters will find their future State Pension may be something the future government may not be able to afford

Think that prospect has been on the cards for a while anyway and the current situation is likely just hastening the inevitable. Common theme, I feel.
 

HSTEd

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Sorry, what's that? :s
Its a "stab in the back myth". The prototypical myth being the one that the German army supposedly did not lose WWI in the field but was betrayed by pacifists and communists on the home front.
 

jtuk

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Julia Hartley-Brewer absolutely destroyed Hancock on Talk Radio this morning, he sounded even more clueless than usual
 

Skimpot flyer

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New article behind a paywall on The Telegraph website suggests more flawed counting methods in the Coronavirus death statistics.
This is what the media should be doing, probing, digging deeper, questioning the official line on these figures. We already had the counting of people dying from other causes, months after a positive test, being included in the coronavirus death statistics, until that was exposed.

Now research finds someone who had heart attack may have been included in figures if they had also tested positive for virus...


The full text is as follows:

Coronavirus was not the main cause of death for nearly one third of recorded Covid-19 victims in July and August, research by Oxford University has found.

Analysis shows that around 30 percent of people included in the coronavirus death toll by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) over the summer months had died primarily from other conditions.

It means someone who suffered a heart attack, or even died in a road traffic accident, may have been included in the figures if they had also tested positive for coronavirus at some point, or if doctors believed the virus may have exacerbated their condition.

Throughout the entire pandemic, around one in 13 people currently classed as Covid-19 victims did not have the disease as an underlying cause of death.

It means 3,877 deaths (7.8 per cent) in which coronavirus was not the primary cause have been included in the figures. In July and August, that number jumped to 28.8 per cent of all registered deaths, meaning Covid-19 was not the main cause of death in 465 of 1,617 recorded victims (listen to the podcast below, which discusses whether Britain's death toll could be set to increase again).


Early in the pandemic, the World Health Organisation (WHO) warned that even if coronavirus appeared on the death certificate as a "significant condition", the death should not be included in the figures. WHO guidelines state that such deaths "are not due to Covid-19 and should not be classified as such".

Dr Jason Oke, part of the team from the Centre of Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford that uncovered the data, said many people had been dying "with" coronavirus but not "from" it.

"At the beginning of the epidemic we only saw this in a few cases, but this is increasing because a lot more people have now had Covid," he said. "The true death rate is an important thing to know because it gives us an idea of impact. Clearly Covid was having a massive impact in March and April, but we need to know if the disease is now taking the same toll as before.

"The impact now seems to be lessening, and if that is true – which it certainly looks like at the moment, because there doesn’t seem to be the same fatality rate (see graphic below, showing fatality rates across Europe) – then that will guide decisions in managing risk, so it's important to get this number right."

The team uncovered the figures after comparing the number of registered deaths where coronavirus was not the main cause to the ONS data.

During the pandemic, 263,826 deaths were recorded altogether in England and Wales and 218,143 were from causes other than coronavirus. That suggests that some 45,683 people died "from" coronavirus rather than the 49,560 figure published by the ONS.

Experts at Oxford are concerned that the problem with over-counting will get worse as more people in the population contract coronavirus. They are worried it means thousands more people died at the peak because of the pandemic response rather than because of the virus and have been wrongly included in the Covid-19 statistics.

"In the lockdown, there may have been even more deaths that were not caused by Covid, but were caused by the actions of lockdown – and that is important to know," added Dr Oke.

The team is the same one that discovered that Public Health England (PHE) had been wrongly counting people as having died from the virus if they had ever tested positive.

That led to Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, ordering an urgent review of the data, and in August the UK death toll was revised downwards by 5,377 to 41,329 and now only include deaths that occur within 28 days of a positive test.

However, Paul Hunter, professor in medicine at the University of East Anglia, said it was very difficult for doctors to be able to tell how much of an impact Covid-19 had on an underlying condition.

"It's a difficult judgment call to make," he said. "Say, for example, you've got a patient who has got leukaemia, they get Covid, and a couple of weeks later they die.

"There is evidence they had got some degree of pneumonia, so what do you put as the primary cause of death? How much is because of Covid is not easy to say. The primary cause is leukemia, but they might not have died if they had not got Covid."

_covid.jpg_covid.jpg
 
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nlogax

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New article behind a paywall on The Telegraph website suggests more flawed counting methods in the Coronavirus death statistics.
This is what the media should be doing, probing, digging deeper, questioning the official line on these figures. We already had the counting of people dying from other causes, months after a positive test, being included in the coronavirus death statistics, until that was exposed.

Nice find.

This could be a watershed moment. Either the grown up conversation is had, those that in charge of handling this learn to count and we accept a certain level of risk knowing that it's lower than has been advertised for the last several months, or.. we completely crash and burn as a nation.

Yes, I blame the media for painting a very dreary picture and putting the fear of god into half the nation. I also blame those in charge that whom either continue to get their sums wrong, or whom purposefully prefer to manipulate victim statistics to suit a specific purpose. Maybe let's start with some accuracy on the number of cases and counting those deaths that were actually caused by C19, and then continue with some accuracy of journalism across all the media when reporting those stats so everyone has the true picture.

And yes, I may have my naive hat on today.
 

Dent

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New article behind a paywall on The Telegraph website suggests more flawed counting methods in the Coronavirus death statistics.
This is what the media should be doing, probing, digging deeper, questioning the official line on these figures. We already had the counting of people dying from other causes, months after a positive test, being included in the coronavirus death statistics, until that was exposed.

Now research finds someone who had heart attack may have been included in figures if they had also tested positive for virus...

That's not revealing anything that wasn't already known.

The figures quoted are labelled as "Deaths within 28 days of positive test", which is exactly what they are. They are not officially presented as the number of deaths caused by the virus, but are sometimes misunderstood as such or misrepresented by those with an agenda to exaggerate the severity of this virus.

Introducing the 28-day time limit reduced the number of unrelated deaths included in the numbers, but obviously does not eliminate the possibility. "Deaths within 28 days of positive test" is only used as a measure because it is easy to monitor in real time, and provides a crude approximation (but still an overestimate) of the number of deaths due to the virus.
 

wireforever

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Sky News getting their facts wrong again today.Local lockdowns in former north west steeltowns.Accrington,Warrington Halton(Runcorn & Widnes) were not steeltowns and then they went on to explain Newcastle was the UK party capital a couple of months time they won't have any UK news just 24/7 coverage of the US election
 

Domh245

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The figures quoted are labelled as "Deaths within 28 days of positive test", which is exactly what they are. They are not officially presented as the number of deaths caused by the virus, but are sometimes misunderstood as such or misrepresented by those with an agenda to exaggerate the severity of this virus.

No, that was the first 'gotcha' that CEBM got about Death numbers. This is a suggestion that the ONS figures (widely regarded to be more accurate than the PHE/28 day number) are also inaccurate, on the basis of the death certificates being a bit too overly cautious.
 

Skimpot flyer

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... as predicted by others on here, the media start softening-up the public for another lockdown.
Note the use of the phrase ‘if the government does not act’
<D


No, that was the first 'gotcha' that CEBM got about Death numbers. This is a suggestion that the ONS figures (widely regarded to be more accurate than the PHE/28 day number) are also inaccurate, on the basis of the death certificates being a bit too overly cautious.
Correct!
I at first thought this was not new, until the penny dropped.
 

Jamiescott1

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Hancock was doing the rounds on TV this morning. A short interview on ridge then in the studio with marr.
He keeps repeating the threats that if we don't follow rules then stricter guidelines are needed. He said swedish people followed the rules.
I really wonder if the sage behavioural scientists advised the government to threaten people into compliance, treat the public like kids or call them granny killers.
 

Yew

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I really wonder if the sage behavioural scientists advised the government to threaten people into compliance, treat the public like kids or call them granny killers.

I would hazard a guess that such an approach is the result of centuries of Aristocratic inbreeding?
 

DB

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Hancock was doing the rounds on TV this morning. A short interview on ridge then in the studio with marr.
He keeps repeating the threats that if we don't follow rules then stricter guidelines are needed. He said swedish people followed the rules.
I really wonder if the sage behavioural scientists advised the government to threaten people into compliance, treat the public like kids or call them granny killers.

Which rules are not being followed widely? Only one I can think of is distancing and that is entirely the government's fault - it was being followed right up until the mask mandate.
 

NorthOxonian

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Which rules are not being followed widely? Only one I can think of is distancing and that is entirely the government's fault - it was being followed right up until the mask mandate.

People who were supposed to quarantine going on pub crawls would be an obvious example.
 

Skimpot flyer

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Which rules are not being followed widely? Only one I can think of is distancing and that is entirely the government's fault - it was being followed right up until the mask mandate.
Is the correct answer.
 

adc82140

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I note that Boris's ministerial statement has now been downgraded to a 3 stooges press conference. Did the Sunday press over egg it?
 

birchesgreen

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Probably someone suggested Lockdown 2.0 and the next thing everyone heard at Number 10 was Rishi Sunak fainting.
 

Andyh82

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I note that Boris's ministerial statement has now been downgraded to a 3 stooges press conference. Did the Sunday press over egg it?
“Boris to address the nation”generates more clicks than “Boris to address the nation, at a press conference”
 
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