Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[prod_pep]

Aren't the announcements the same as on the old trains... not noticed them being excessive.

They're not the same. There are far more of them on the 777s and the 'please stand back behind the yellow line' external announcement is so loud I can hear it from my house with the windows closed despite living several streets back from the railway.

It's only a 15 minute wait as long as the next one turns up, which it often doesn't!

 

[nigelsporne]

I am old enough to remember travelling on the 502/3s and was pleased when they brought in the 507/8s. They were modern and to the expected standards of the day. I did however find the legroom rather restrictive. The 777s are again designed, in my view, to transmit people quickly and hopefully efficiently over relatively short distances. The seats are on the hard side but acceptable for the purpose they serve. Again the legroom is not great in some instances but I imagine one eye was kept on the wear and tear these seats get coupled with anti social behaviour, feet on seats, chewing gum stuck in awkward places etc. etc.
I feel we should be grateful for the new stock. No matter what was delivered it is unlikely to be to everyone's taste. I look forward to spending a few days travelling around the Merseyrail system in the next month or so.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I feel we should be grateful for the new stock.

Regrettably I can't be grateful for something which is so utterly awfully designed. The level boarding is about the only thing that's good about them. Aside from that the 730 is so much superior in my view. They're not even reliable!

I look forward to spending a few days travelling around the Merseyrail system in the next month or so.

I hope your back recovers well after that!

 

[Bikeman78]

I saw 777051 in service at Chester this morning, When did this start?
At Sandhills this afternoon 777039 went through non stop on test.

Around May 10th I think. It was definitely in service on the 12th.

 

[childwallblues]

Regrettably I can't be grateful for something which is so utterly awfully designed. The level boarding is about the only thing that's good about them. Aside from that the 730 is so much superior in my view. They're not even reliable!



I hope your back recovers well after that!

We all have our own opinions of the 777s. I have previously said I like them especially for their airline seating. I have just completed my 100th journey on 777s on Tuesday and am lookinf forward to another four on Sunday and three on Monday when thousands will be using Moorfields Station to get to the Pier Head for the naming of the Cunard liner Queen Anne,

 

[MR-507508]

Sad event on the final services last night as it seems a person was hit by a train near Ainsdale. I have seen no reports of this mentioned this morning of this event but the final 3 services heading towards Southport were cancelled at Formby, Hightown and Hall Road respectively and it seems as though the final Liverpool bound service may have been the unit involved, I think this was 777016.

Realtime Trains | 2G00 2318 Southport to Ainsdale | 30/05/2024

Real-time train running information for 2G00 2318 departure from Southport to Ainsdale on 30/05/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[nigelsporne]

Have any new units entered service with the advent of the new Timetable?

 

[harrym508131]

Have any new units entered service with the advent of the new Timetable?

045 did the other day and as expected, failed before it had even completed half of its diagram

 

[nigelsporne]

Thanks.

 

[507021]

We do indeed have differing views of the 777s, but what needs to be realised is the weight of their validity isn't subject to the number of times someone has travelled on them or where they live. I wanted to like the 777s, but after using them for several months before moving, I'm still of the view they're very poorly designed and certainly aren't the "world class" trains Merseyrail passengers were promised. As a result, my custom has been lost to the car and after a number of instances of being late for school due to 777 unreliability, my eldest daughter and her friend now use the bus instead.

 

[nigelsporne]

Although I have defended the 777s as I think we should give them the benefit of doubt until they have bedded in I must admit they look rather ' cheap' compared to the other new units being rolled out.

 

[karlbbb]

Although I have defended the 777s as I think we should give them the benefit of doubt until they have bedded in I must admit they look rather ' cheap' compared to the other new units being rolled out.

It's difficult to give the "bedding in" or "teething issues" phrases a pass at this point. The first 777 was introduced in Jan 2023, and we're nearly 18 months on with - more often than not - several failures a day. We're beyond teething issues.

 

[nigelsporne]

In my view, others will differ, the honeymoon period ends when the whole class is in operation. The 777s were probably introduced too hastily for what ever reason. The class has suffered but does appear to be improving. The design has been questioned elsewhere in this forum but at the end of the day you only get what you are prepared to pay for.

 

[Peter Sarf]

In my view, others will differ, the honeymoon period ends when the whole class is in operation. The 777s were probably introduced too hastily for what ever reason. The class has suffered but does appear to be improving. The design has been questioned elsewhere in this forum but at the end of the day you only get what you are prepared to pay for.

Stadler are not cheap normally.......

 

[baldyman26]

Stadler are not cheap normally.......

Just completely incompetent if these trains are anything to go on

 

[Thornaby 37]

In my view, others will differ, the honeymoon period ends when the whole class is in operation. The 777s were probably introduced too hastily for what ever reason. The class has suffered but does appear to be improving. The design has been questioned elsewhere in this forum but at the end of the day you only get what you are prepared to pay for.

Almost three years between first deliveries and first units in service

 

[Peter Sarf]

Just completely incompetent if these trains are anything to go on

Given Stadlers other offerings (Flirts and trams) are quite good I have to question the customers specification and the customers implementation. I would certainly say that given the initial problems more time should have elapsed before dumping (almost) the whole fleet on the passengers.

 

[Liverpool 507]

Certainly a few with PIS faults on the Wirral Line this evening. Those being 777005, 777006 and 777030. Had 777007 on the Southport line this morning and that was looking really grubby in places.

 

[507021]

In my view, others will differ, the honeymoon period ends when the whole class is in operation. The 777s were probably introduced too hastily for what ever reason. The class has suffered but does appear to be improving. The design has been questioned elsewhere in this forum but at the end of the day you only get what you are prepared to pay for.

I respect your opinion, but as someone else has said, it's been nearly eighteen months since the 777s first entered service and there's still no sign of them properly settling down and providing a consistently reliable service. I really don't think waiting until the full fleet has entered service before being critical is a fair ask, not when the quality of service since the 777s were introduced has been poor and some of their on board features are as useful as a one legged chair.

 

[Northerngirl]

Just completely incompetent if these trains are anything to go on

Have any of their uk trains other than the 745/755 been up to standard, it seems like they are all failing at every hurdle

 

[Prime586]

Given Stadlers other offerings (Flirts and trams) are quite good I have to question the customers specification and the customers implementation. I would certainly say that given the initial problems more time should have elapsed before dumping (almost) the whole fleet on the passengers.

The Class 555s introduction in Tyne & Wear has been delayed due to unspecified issues (supposedly traction problems). Given they are built on the same METRO platform as the 777s it will be interesting to see if they suffer similar issues, especially with the door/step mechanisms (I wonder if part of the perceived increase in 777 reliabilty is the new annoucnement telling passemgers not to stand near the doors when approaching stations). The new Glasgow Underground stock also entered service 3 years late, and isn't exactly covering itself in glory either.

Merseytravel can take the blame for the specification of the interior (and maybe the strange decision to only have one vestibule in the long end cars). As far as implementation goes, it was all supposed to be ;off the shelf' (and often bought in from subcontractors) components and systems that Stadtler had used and had proven in previous designs, I wouldn't agree that they were rushed into service prematurely either - they were driving around the network doing 'testing' and mileage accumulation during the COVID lockdowns. Unfortunattely the test protocols they were using did not seem to accurately reflect the real world conditions they would see in service.

As a professional software engineer, the issue of having different, incompatible software builds between the Polish and Swiss built units that prevented multiple working is particularly unforgivable.

 

[nigelsporne]

As I appear to be in a minority of one regarding the 777s I will go sit in the corner!!!
I will follow the thread with interest.

 

[WirralLine]

Long time lurker so thought I would weigh in my thoughts/observations.

I agree with much of the comments regarding design. The seats are poor but OK for short journeys. The sliding steps are great for access but on a daily basis they're getting stuck either fully in, half out, or fully out. Only a couple of weeks ago a Train Manager half fell down the gap and injured their leg as the step had only deployed half way.

The PIS system is still riddled with faults. I was on one yesterday where the internal "live maps" and CCTV screens had frozen some 3 hours earlier, you still often see them displaying the wrong information on the destination boards. Multiple dispatch CCTV faults still ongoing on a daily basis.

A large number of them still can't work together even for rescue purposes - how a company can design a fleet of trains and have them running separate software which isn't compatible is bizzare. Transport for Wales 197s have had multiple software updates since new which are rolled out across the whole fleet within a couple of weeks - and are backwards compatible meaning new software units can work fine with non updated ones. It says a lot when even CAF are more capable on that front!

A comment above regarding only having 1 door/vestibule in the driving cars - this is I believe due to the trains being too long for various platforms when working as 8 car formation. This means the stop marker can be off the platform, but the doors will be platformed and no need for SDO/ASDO or similar. Ordering trains specifically designed for the network which don't fit at the stations on said network is questionable in itself - however I believe ordering 4 car units (4 shorter cars making a similar length to 3 longer cars) is to reduce wheelset wear around the loop.

 

[Sam 76]

Can confirm you can no longer pre arm the doors on the 777s. That’s another 5 seconds added at every stop.

I know it was hard for them to go backwards in many peoples eyes but the is is yet another step.

I was someone who loved them and defended them when they came in. But with each passing day they are getting worse and worse. I cannot express how disappointed I am. A product with so much potential seemingly wasted.

 

[WirralLine]

Can confirm you can no longer pre arm the doors on the 777s. That’s another 5 seconds added at every stop.

I know it was hard for them to go backwards in many peoples eyes but the is is yet another step.

I was someone who loved them and defended them when they came in. But with each passing day they are getting worse and worse. I cannot express how disappointed I am. A product with so much potential seemingly wasted.

You still can on a lot of units. Both the ones I travelled on yesterday still worked, however I had one a few weeks ago (032 from memory but slightly hazy) which had it disabled.

 

[baldyman26]

PIS seems to be announcing every station on arrival all of a sudden now, although speaking to a guard it is still very temperamental. He said there is a big update coming up but none of the other updates have made any difference and the majority of staff have no confidence in the trains or Stadler to fix them and that Merseyrail would do anything to get rid of Stadler. Obviously this is the guards opinion but considering how quiet the blithering idiot Mayor has gone now he's untouchable again, maybe that tells us everything.

 

[Sam 76]

PIS seems to be announcing every station on arrival all of a sudden now, although speaking to a guard it is still very temperamental. He said there is a big update coming up but none of the other updates have made any difference and the majority of staff have no confidence in the trains or Stadler to fix them and that Merseyrail would do anything to get rid of Stadler. Obviously this is the guards opinion but considering how quiet the blithering idiot Mayor has gone now he's untouchable again, maybe that tells us everything.

To be fair. If you get rid of Stadler they would never improve. If needs them to work on it. I can imagine it’s stressful as a guard and driver at the moment, but you’d like to think one of the updates (maybe it’s this latest one) will sort them out a bit

 

[childwallblues]

PIS seems to be announcing every station on arrival all of a sudden now, although speaking to a guard it is still very temperamental. He said there is a big update coming up but none of the other updates have made any difference and the majority of staff have no confidence in the trains or Stadler to fix them and that Merseyrail would do anything to get rid of Stadler. Obviously this is the guards opinion but considering how quiet the blithering idiot Mayor has gone now he's untouchable again, maybe that tells us everything.

Poor Mayor Rotheram. He is too busy helping his father figure Burnham rule the north to be bothered with Merseyside.

 

[yorkie]

Can we please stick to actual updates regarding Class 777 introduction in this particular thread, please.

Thanks

 

[karlbbb]

Can confirm you can no longer pre arm the doors on the 777s. That’s another 5 seconds added at every stop.

I know it was hard for them to go backwards in many peoples eyes but the is is yet another step.

I was someone who loved them and defended them when they came in. But with each passing day they are getting worse and worse. I cannot express how disappointed I am. A product with so much potential seemingly wasted.

I'm not sure it's "another 5 seconds added at every stop". Most people are stood with their hand hovering near the button and are pressing it within a second of the door unlock alarm sounding. I agree it's a bit of a daft regression, though.

I'm not fully convinced on the longevity of the units either. Just yesterday I saw 777009 running with a segment of its tail lights not functioning, and travelled on 777023 which sounded like the doors no longer seal properly with the amount of outside noise it lets in. I also think the climate control system on most trains has too-high a set point as trains are starting to feel a little stuffy with no air movement, let alone air conditioning to dry the air. I've heard a few guards complain to other members of the public they can't change it but that seems...wrong? Surely there's no way the driver or guard has no control over the temperature setting via an interface?