I don't think enough votes have accumulated for this to be shown to all X users yet.
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Merseyrail mandates that Trainline tickets must be printed out
- Thread starter YorkRailFan
- Start date
I don't think enough votes have accumulated for this to be shown to all X users yet.
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RailUK Forums
I got e-ticket to Liverpool Stations on Saturday, only discovered their policy at Chester where it stated no third party e-tickets are valid. How can they enforce a policy if it isn't specified prior to purchase? shouldn't it be flagged as not saleable via e-ticket in same way that cross London tickets are?
I luckily did also have a Daysaver ticket (not 3rd party so valid) already purchased which was manually checked at barriers and on the train.
DanNCL
Established Member
It was showing to all users last night, just been back on and it’s now hidden. Not entirely certain how that one works!
From whom did you buy the ticket?
There is an advert at Haywards Heath railway station. It says about going green by using less orange.
I took a photo of the advert.
I was thinking they need to display this advert in the TfL offices and other TfL places.
Perhaps they need to display them in MerseyRail offices too.
To that they could also add any place where they insist on the rules that to buy walk-up tickets online a journey planner interface must be involved. It's the reason why I don't buy many eTickets.
The community note seems to have disappeared. It's not displaying on my Android X, formally known as Twitter, app. Surely X, formally known as Twitter, isn't so bad that such notices only appear on the web browser version.
Did MerseyRail successfully get the community note removed?
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Railboard app - which is trainsplit.com
I was also following it. The post got a community note which was visible for a period of time once it met the vote threshold; it's likely that subsequent votes by community notes editors brought it back below the threshold resulting in the note being hidden.
To the original point, the communication is just a not especially good way of pointing out that most tickets for journeys on Merseyrail are not fulfilled as e-tickets and that ToD must be collected before travelling.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yep, that's what they're saying. It's incredibly clumsy wording, though.
"If you bought a ticket on Trainline, check how it says you will get it - if for collection you MUST collect before travel unless the booking office is closed - if you don't, we'll treat you as if you hadn't paid which could cost you over £100" would be a clearer way to put it.
Then a reply "If travelling from Capenhurst, Bache, Little Sutton or Overpool which do not have booking offices, you must collect these tickets at ANOTHER station before travel". Or at least I think that's the rule with these ones.
Of course it'd be better if they just accepted e-tickets, but given that they don't this is an incredible (but not surprising) bout of classic Merseyrail incompetence.
One significant negative effect of messaging like this is that it's likely to lead Merseyrail staff to believe that actual e-tickets for journeys which can involve travel on Merseyrail services are not valid, so even though that's wrong, they might be unwilling to accept that they've been badly briefed or have misunderstood the ticketing rules.
So people travelling with valid tickets might encounter staff who are convinced that no PDF/barcode tickets are valid, or that the only ones which are valid are the Merseyrail-issued ones. Which will lead to conflict and some difficult interactions.
So people travelling with valid tickets might encounter staff who are convinced that no PDF/barcode tickets are valid, or that the only ones which are valid are the Merseyrail-issued ones. Which will lead to conflict and some difficult interactions.
Adam Williams
Established Member
The fare-setting TOC marked the ticket (which is to the group station) as E-Ticketable in RCS at the group-level, in this instance.
MrJeeves
Established Member
Looks like they got fed up of people's replies.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That is about the worst feature on the entire platform - it promotes sounding boards.
"Shouldn't" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here
That is disappointing. Is there any way to appeal the withdrawal of the note? It should be reinstated.
Adam Williams
Established Member
You can vote on community notes here: https://twitter.com/i/birdwatch/t/1771872033967583303
Thanks. I wonder if those who downvoted the note are Merseyrail fans or employees.
There is also a ridiculous claim on there, defending Merseyrail, which I have downvoted.
MrJeeves
Established Member
Is that the one that says since Merseyrail have their own Byelaws, they don't need to comply with the NRCoT?
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,442
There was a recent high profile Merseyrail case discussed in a thread here involving BTP, being arrested etc etc, turned out to be a bog-standard failure to print a ToD, ie nothing whatsoever to do with etickets.
this one: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ow-wont-face-prosecution.264208/#post-6676958
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There is no "appeal" as such; you can make a vote of your own if you have a qualifying X account. If the vote tally (which is hidden) passes the threshold, the community note would be republished.
Done!
Yep; I wonder if they work for Merseyrail. They do like to think of themselves as separate. It's such a strange mentality.Is that the one that says since Merseyrail have their own Byelaws, they don't need to comply with the NRCoT?
Part of the problem is that it would mean disabling the e-ticket option on any open ticket which could possibly be used between Liverpool South Parkway and Central or Moorfields on the Northern Line.
HSTEd
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 16,739
Merseyrail attempting to Canute e-tickets is an interesting position, anyone know why they are trying that?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's just a really cack-handed way of saying "we don't sell e-tickets for any itinerary involving us, so don't forget to collect your ToD".
I have very little time for their antics, but this seems to me just to be grossly incompetent.
Wallsendmag
Established Member
They aren't the only ones.
Tazi Hupefi
Member
Merseyrail do accept e-tickets and PRT style tickets without much fuss. This whole situation is them trying to explain to customers who have TOD that they need to visit a ticket office prior to travel, however, they are so insular, they do not realise or appriciate that they need to make a clear distinction here, hence the confusing messaging.
In any event, the reason for the lack of enthusiasm for e-ticketing is because of a number of factors:
1) The concession doesn't receive DfT funding or participate in the DfT led schemes around smart ticketing - therefore the cost of upgrading ticket barriers, inspection devices etc falls on Merseytravel, (not Merseyrail), who does not want to pay when they have their own local ticketing schemes;
2) Merseyrail as a concession operator don't have any "franchise" obligations to introduce this stuff, bearing in mind it was originally let out in 2002 when this stuff was a pipe dream and very futuristic. The next concession is due to be awarded in a couple of years.
3) Almost all ticket offices are staffed first to last train. It is highly political. As a result of people already starting to switch away from these ticket offices, the costs of running them become even more of a basket case - some ticket offices barely sell a single digit number of tickets each hour. Not a single one of them are profitable, i.e. the costs of running them (staffing, utilities infrastructure etc) exceed revenue received, even at the bigger stations. Hence TOD being forced to be done at a ticket office.
You then end up with union issues and bad local press for closing them or changing the role of the staff. I think the PAYG stuff will cause this issue anyway later this year.
Merseytravel isn't going to invest in the necessary technology as per my first point, because to do so means that they're inadvertently eroding the ticket office role that they place significant value on, even further.
randyrippley
Established Member
- Joined
- 21 Feb 2016
- Messages
- 5,139
So if I travel from Morecambe to Kirkby, changing stations at Wigan, do I need to have a printed ticket for the last section Headbolt Lane - Kirkby? A year ago before Headbolt Lane was opened I presume I wouldn't have needed one, even though I would have been exiting at a Merseyrail station
Merseyrail claims that you do.
Tazi Hupefi
Member
This really isn't very hard - as above, there are absolutely no problems using proper e-tickets or mTickets on Merseyrail, providing they are available and you can find an online retailer willing to issue one.
Merseyrail might be inadvertently muddying the waters with their messaging, but this really is very simple.
As long as you have a barcode ticket and not a collection reference you can do what you like with the ticket, subject to any route restrictions specified on the ticket.
Merseyrail is also generally very comfortable (and familiar) with TOCs issuing e-tickets to Merseyrail managed stations, but where customers have arrived there by a different operator. Some TOCs have been a bit too strict and barred any barcode tickets being issued to a Merseyrail managed station, even if travel on Merseyrail isn't possible.
For example, Northern, East Midlands etc. can issue e-tickets to Southport, Liverpool South Parkway, Hunts Cross etc. Avanti will issue e-tickets to Liverpool South Parkway when the calls go in.
They're just bothered about significant volumes being used on their own services, but they will accept them if valid, e.g. Any Permitted etc.
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