Merseyrail to Carr Mill?

[SLTRegular]

Long-awaited railway station could see the first Merseyrail trains in St Helens

A RAILWAY station that has been touted for decades could see the first Merseyrail trains travelling in St Helens if the proposals are realised.

www.sthelensstar.co.uk

Is this even possible or just journalists chatting nonsense?

 

[SargeNpton]

This is the crucial bit...

"As part of his pre-election pledge, metro mayor of Liverpool City Region (LCR) Steve Rotheram confirmed that a new station at Carr Mill would be part of his commitment to improve the region's transport infrastructure if re-elected"

It's not official policy, he's just canvassing for votes.

 

[johnmoly]

Everything is possible, but I doubt practical in this instance, as its going to go on the Liverpool to Wigan line which is not served by Merseyrail Electrics at all as its from Lime Street, although it is part of Merseyrail Network, there is a difference between the two. I think I'm correct is say only Northern serve stations along this line. They would have to have OLE equipment fitted to Merseyrail Electric trains instead of third rail as it is already electrified, I doubt that it could use battery power.
I reckon its just the Regional Mayor Steve Rotheram casting for votes in this years election.

 

[8A Rail]

You could say the same thing for Woodchurch and Daresbury if you took the Journalist view literally. Take it with a pitch of salt and I go along with 'John Moly' wrote above.

 

[snowball]

An existing thread here:

Three potential new stations in Liverpool City Region

According to today's Liverpool Echo, the Metro mayor has announced his plans for three new stations in Liverpool City Region by 2030. They are (drum roll): Woodchurch on the Wirral, Carr Mill in St Helens and Daresbury in Halton

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bevan Price]

Reopening a station at Carr Mill has been proposed for many years, but money has never become available to build it. Once largely open space, the site is now surrounded by housing developments. but not much space for park and ride unless they can somehow acquire and use the nearby waste tips (locally known as the burgy banks) - waste material from the glass industry. Moreover, a park and ride site would make worse he regular congestion on the nearby A580 road. So - we wait and see..............

I would add that it would be served by Merseyrail City Line - not by Merseyrail Electrics.

 

[Djgr]

This is the crucial bit...

"As part of his pre-election pledge, metro mayor of Liverpool City Region (LCR) Steve Rotheram confirmed that a new station at Carr Mill would be part of his commitment to improve the region's transport infrastructure if re-elected"

It's not official policy, he's just canvassing for votes.

Though to be fair the chance of him not being reelected is virtually nil.

Reopening a station at Carr Mill has been proposed for many years, but money has never become available to build it. Once largely open space, the site is now surrounded by housing developments. but not much space for park and ride unless they can somehow acquire and use the nearby waste tips (locally known as the burgy banks) - waste material from the glass industry. Moreover, a park and ride site would make worse he regular congestion on the nearby A580 road. So - we wait and see..............

I would add that it would be served by Merseyrail City Line - not by Merseyrail Electrics.

It's either lazy journalism or misunderstanding. The proposed new stations are not linked to any electrification scheme or TOC change.

I am sure that some would like a return to the Merseyrail City lines concept, particularly as Northern do not really have an understanding of or commitment to LCR , being based miles away. However there are lots of cross boundary issues with this. Not sure how many people remember when services terminated at Garswood?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though to be fair the chance of him not being reelected is virtually nil.


It's either lazy journalism or misunderstanding. The proposed new stations are not linked to any electrification scheme or TOC change.

I am sure that some would like a return to the Merseyrail City lines concept, particularly as Northern do not really have an understanding of or commitment to LCR , being based miles away. However there are lots of cross boundary issues with this. Not sure how many people remember when services terminated at Garswood?

I don't recall that ever happening except engineering works. They were just "Merseyrail to Garswood" in the same way as you get in Germany and the Merseytravel liveried DMUs showed up anywhere.

 

[8A Rail]

Reopening a station at Carr Mill has been proposed for many years, but money has never become available to build it. Once largely open space, the site is now surrounded by housing developments. but not much space for park and ride unless they can somehow acquire and use the nearby waste tips (locally known as the burgy banks) - waste material from the glass industry. Moreover, a park and ride site would make worse he regular congestion on the nearby A580 road. So - we wait and see..............

I would add that it would be served by Merseyrail City Line - not by Merseyrail Electrics.

It is not 'Merseyrail' City Line as far as I am aware, more 'Merseytravel' I think, with the stations manage by Merseytravel (within the Mersey Area), trains operated by 'Northern' as you are aware anyway. 'Merseyrail' is the train operator on the 3rd rail lines only.

 

[Djgr]

I don't recall that ever happening except engineering works. They were just "Merseyrail to Garswood" in the same way as you get in Germany and the Merseytravel liveried DMUs showed up anywhere.

The point I was making was that MPTE (as was) used to fund services from Liverpool as far as Garswood where they terminated and returned to Lime Street (presumably because they ran up against the MPTE boundary).

I am sure that many local people would like "Merseyrail" services out of Lime Street but there are few (if any?) that currently do not cross the LCR boundary and hence become politically difficult (The possible ones that I can think of would be a Lime St to St Helens Central local, a Lime Street to Newton-le-Willows local and a Lime Street to Runcorn local and all three would be fraught with operational challenges)

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is not 'Merseyrail' City Line as far as I am aware, more 'Merseytravel' I think, with the stations manage by Merseytravel (within the Mersey Area), trains operated by 'Northern' as you are aware anyway. 'Merseyrail' is the train operator on the 3rd rail lines only.

Classically it was branded as the Merseyrail City Line and had a timetable booklet in the same (12 hour) format as the Northern and Wirral Lines. It was only in the last few years that the Merseyrail brand has started to be phased out on it, however many stations still have Merseyrail on the signs. I suspect this was to reduce confusion surrounding the Daysaver ticket.

The point I was making was that MPTE (as was) used to fund services from Liverpool as far as Garswood where they terminated and returned to Lime Street (presumably because they ran up against the MPTE boundary).

When did this happen? I don't remember it, and it's never happened on the Northern/Wirral Lines, e.g. they've never (outside disruption) spun trains at Maghull. The Wirral Line did at one point terminate at Hooton, but then that's technically outside Merseyside!

I travelled these lines regularly from about 1995, first "getting out to play" on the 50p Christmas special fares - they were certainly Wigan stoppers back then, they didn't spin at Garswood.

I am sure that many local people would like "Merseyrail" services out of Lime Street but there are few (if any?) that currently do not cross the LCR boundary and hence become politically difficult (The possible ones that I can think of would be a Lime St to St Helens Central local, a Lime Street to Newton-le-Willows local and a Lime Street to Runcorn local and all three would be fraught with operational challenges)

It's not politically difficult at all; the PTE would just add subsidy to the border.

 

[Djgr]

When did this happen? I

I can't find dates and so I am relying on memory but somebody has mentioned the hourly Lime Street to Garswood service elsewhere on the forum and so I am not dreaming this!

don't remember it, and it's never happened on the Northern/Wirral Lines, e.g. they've never (outside disruption) spun trains at Maghull. The Wirral Line did at one point terminate at Hooton, but then that's technically outside Merseyside!

Hooton comes up a lot but it was really really only just in Cheshire at this time, so that it was simpler all round to treat it as if within area. Subsequent to this the Wirral/Cheshire administrative boundary has moved around 1/2 mile further north.

 

[8A Rail]

Classically it was branded as the Merseyrail City Line and had a timetable booklet in the same (12 hour) format as the Northern and Wirral Lines. It was only in the last few years that the Merseyrail brand has started to be phased out on it, however many stations still have Merseyrail on the signs. I suspect this was to reduce confusion surrounding the Daysaver ticket.

When did this happen? I don't remember it, and it's never happened on the Northern/Wirral Lines, e.g. they've never (outside disruption) spun trains at Maghull. The Wirral Line did at one point terminate at Hooton, but then that's technically outside Merseyside!

I travelled these lines regularly from about 1995, first "getting out to play" on the 50p Christmas special fares - they were certainly Wigan stoppers back then, they didn't spin at Garswood.

It's not politically difficult at all; the PTE would just add subsidy to the border.

Now you mentioned it, and got my little grey cells working, yes it branded 'Merseyrail City Line' (as well as Northern and the Wirral lines), that was certainly from the mid 1980's (if not before) until mid 1990's, as from about then, the new 'yellow' M station signs started to appear which had just 'Merseyrail' on them (bottom right corner of the signs). The latter stayed in circulation until the newer type without 'Merseyrail' appeared, with some depending on the line had for example 'Northern' on them from about 2010 / 11. By co-incidence, actually looked today (as a reminder) that I have a handful of station signs including a full set of the separate 'Merseyrail' Clty / Northern / Wirral signs.

The point I was making was that MPTE (as was) used to fund services from Liverpool as far as Garswood where they terminated and returned to Lime Street (presumably because they ran up against the MPTE boundary).

May be that was before the 1980's? Certainly in the 1980's, the local service was Liverpool Lime St to St Helens Shaw Street (now Central) and return. In between that there were other services that carried on to Wigan NW and beyond were some stopped at Garswood and Bryn. The Merseyrail / travel boundary for trains on the north side of the Mersey has been Southport, Meols Cop, Ormskirk, Rainford, Garswood, Newton le Willows, Hough Green, and Liverpool South Parkway (ex Allerton) but the trains always operated beyond those stations anyway.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Long-awaited railway station could see the first Merseyrail trains in St Helens

A RAILWAY station that has been touted for decades could see the first Merseyrail trains travelling in St Helens if the proposals are realised.

www.sthelensstar.co.uk

Is this even possible or just journalists chatting nonsense?

Journalists chatting nonsense.
It would be on what is called the Merseyrail City Line (essentially a ticketing and branding thing - I think Merseytravel PTE subsidise facilities like ticket offices and brand a lot of things in yellow, you can still use Merseytravel day tickets like the Saveaway up to the Merseyside boundary), but the services are operated as normal National Rail services by Northern/whoever operates the services that starts in Liverpool and has a stop before the Merseyside boundary.