Merseytravel (Merseymetro franchising)

[73001]

Wirral is expected to be done at the same or similar time as St Helens

Wirral is round 2. Given the issues that Manchester had at the start (and which LCR have learned from) I'd expect a bit of a gap between them. The whole thing stretches across 2 years allowing a few months between each round.

 

[JasonL]

Due to franchise contract constraints, Arriva are not bidding for St Helens franchise, so not putting their new buses in there

So that means another company will take over the St. Helens garage?

 

[gka472l]

Out of the 46 new E200MMC's in the 'METRO' livery, most of the Birkenhead (2750-2765), most of the Green Lane (2766-2775), and all 6 of the Southport ones (2776-2781) have all entered service, with Speke's few (2782 upwards) set to be out from next Monday. I would assume these would eventually move around depending on what Arriva actually get out of the 5 franchises.....

 

[JasonL]

Out of the 46 new E200MMC's in the 'METRO' livery, most of the Birkenhead (2750-2765), most of the Green Lane (2766-2775), and all 6 of the Southport ones (2776-2781) have all entered service, with Speke's few (2782 upwards) set to be out from next Monday. I would assume these would eventually move around depending on what Arriva actually get out of the 5 franchises.....

With the 5 being Southport, Laird Street, Green Lane, Bootle and Speke???

 

[gka472l]

With the 5 being Southport, Laird Street, Green Lane, Bootle and Speke???

No, the franchises will be as follows...

Round 1: St Helens
Round 2: Wirral
Round 3: Sefton
Round 4: North Liverpool & North Knowsley
Round 5: South Liverpool, South Knowsley & Halton

HTH

 

[CN12 AWU]

No, the franchises will be as follows...

Round 1: St Helens
Round 2: Wirral
Round 3: Sefton
Round 4: North Liverpool & North Knowsley
Round 5: South Liverpool, South Knowsley & Halton

HTH

Do we happen to know yet how the bidding for St Helens is going sure it starts the new network in 2025

 

[gka472l]

Do we happen to know yet how the bidding for St Helens is going sure it starts the new network in 2025

No, can't find any news on it at the moment.....although I believe the intention is to have it all completed by sometime in 2027.

HTH

 

[Statto]

Any ideas what's going to happen to the cross border services operated from depots in the Liverpool City Region, 375/385 is going to be the interesting one as that's 5& in Merseyside but operated by Southport depot, & their is some rumours going around that Stagecoach are going to transfer the 1/X1 from Rock Ferry to Chester?

 

[JasonL]

Any ideas what's going to happen to the cross border services operated from depots in the Liverpool City Region, 375/385 is going to be the interesting one as that's 5& in Merseyside but operated by Southport depot, & their is some rumours going around that Stagecoach are going to transfer the 1/X1 from Rock Ferry to Chester?

I would imagine that the 375/385 will continue to be operated by Arriva

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Any ideas what's going to happen to the cross border services operated from depots in the Liverpool City Region, 375/385 is going to be the interesting one as that's 5& in Merseyside but operated by Southport depot, & their is some rumours going around that Stagecoach are going to transfer the 1/X1 from Rock Ferry to Chester?

Wasn’t the rumour that the 1/X1 would be truncated at Ellesmere Port?

 

[158756]

I would imagine that the 375/385 will continue to be operated by Arriva

As a franchised service though? Manchester have contracted out everything run from a GM depot, but all of their cross boundary routes do have a significant part within Greater Manchester. There isn't much reason for Merseytravel to care about the 375/385, and if they choose not to franchise them there won't be any commercial operators nearby to take them on.

I would guess they will be franchised, but Merseytravel becoming the dominant operator in West Lancashire creates obvious potential for arguments in future about whether West Lancashire residents should have a say in how the buses are run, or whether Merseyside taxpayers money should be used to run buses in Lancashire.

There's also the question of the 319 between Skelmersdale and Kirkby. Run for the benefit of Lancashire residents, subsidised by Lancashire County Council, currently run from Gillmoss. Will that arrangement be allowed to continue? I think it was said that operators of large franchise depots in Manchester aren't allowed to use those depots to bid for other work. (Edited)

 

[Statto]

Wasn’t the rumour that the 1/X1 would be truncated at Ellesmere Port?

Their was, but latest rumour is they're going to be moved to Chester, out of reach of franchising.

 

[CN12 AWU]

Their was, but latest rumour is they're going to be moved to Chester, out of reach of franchising.

Didn't think Chester Depot would have the space to fit the amount of Vehicles used on 1/X1 as it's not the biggest of depots

 

[JasonL]

As a franchised service though? Manchester have contracted out everything run from a GM depot, but all of their cross boundary routes do have a significant part within Greater Manchester. There isn't much reason for Merseytravel to care about the 375/385, and if they choose not to franchise them there won't be any commercial operators nearby to take them on.

I would guess they will be franchised, but Merseytravel becoming the dominant operator in West Lancashire creates obvious potential for arguments in future about whether West Lancashire residents should have a say in how the buses are run, or whether Merseyside taxpayers money should be used to run buses in Lancashire.

There's also the question of the 319 between Skelmersdale and Kirkby. Run for the benefit of Lancashire residents, subsidised by Lancashire County Council, currently run from Gillmoss. Will that arrangement be allowed to continue? I think it was said that operators of large franchise depots in Manchester aren't allowed to use those depots to bid for other work. (Edited)

Well someone needs to operate the 375/385 route. It would not be fair on those in Skelmersdale if they wanted to go to Southport or Wigan, I don't think there will be any choice but to franchise the route otherwise people in Skelmersdale will find themselves very limited for bus services other than the 310 to Liverpool and the 319 to Kirkby, also for the 319 that also needs to continue as there still has to be more options for people in Skelmersdale to get to either Ormskirk and Kirkby to get the train to Liverpool.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Their was, but latest rumour is they're going to be moved to Chester, out of reach of franchising.

I don't think it works like that.

Well someone needs to operate the 375/385 route. It would not be fair on those in Skelmersdale if they wanted to go to Southport or Wigan, I don't think there will be any choice but to franchise the route otherwise people in Skelmersdale will find themselves very limited for bus services other than the 310 to Liverpool and the 319 to Kirkby, also for the 319 that also needs to continue as there still has to be more options for people in Skelmersdale to get to either Ormskirk and Kirkby to get the train to Liverpool.

I would anticipate that the 375/385 will continue to exist. Whether they get split in Skem so that part becomes a Bee Network and part Merseytravel, who can say. However, these are strong revenue earning routes that I'd imagine Merseytravel would like to maintain in order to use the revenue to support other routes.

 

[TheSel]

I wonder if any of the new buses delivered to Runcorn will be allocated on the X4

Timetable for the X4 (starts next Monday, 16 December) below. Roughly hourly Monday - Saturday. Nice to see some late night journeys, too, e.g. 0015 ex Liverpool.

Note for the pedants on this forum to discuss: although the Timetable is clearly marked 'valid from 15 December 2024', that date is a Sunday, when there is no service!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Their was, but latest rumour is they're going to be moved to Chester, out of reach of franchising.

It doesn't quite work like that. If Merseytravel think the route should be included in their franchising then it will be included in their franchising.

The advantage to moving it to Chester is that it may be easier to argue that its predominantly an out-of-boundary service, a bit like the X40/X43 and 590 in GM. But if Merseytravel don't agree then they won't get a permit to operate inside the Merseyside boundary. Which brings us on to the second rumour that the service would only operate Chester-Cheshire Oaks-Ellesmere Port...

There's also the question of the 319 between Skelmersdale and Kirkby. Run for the benefit of Lancashire residents, subsidised by Lancashire County Council, currently run from Gillmoss.

I know it's a smaller route but the 311/312 are similar and they're operated by Preston Bus. Presumably there would still be options if Merseytravel don't agree to franchise it and also don't agree to let a franchise bid for the route.

I'd say the 319 and the 375/385 will all continue to exist, one way or another.

 

[danbarjon]

Timetable for the X4 (starts next Monday, 16 December) below. Roughly hourly Monday - Saturday. Nice to see some late night journeys, too, e.g. 0015 ex Liverpool.

Note for the pedants on this forum to discuss: although the Timetable is clearly marked 'valid from 15 December 2024', that date is a Sunday, when there is no service!

This is finally a step back in the right direction getting this express bus back. Hopefully with some more changes to include Halton a bit more they will get onto the same level as other areas in the LCR.

 

[paddyb6]

Wasn’t the rumour that the 1/X1 would be truncated at Ellesmere Port?

Believe the current plan is for Stagecoach to keep Rock Ferry to operate the 1/X1 and potentially some school contracts and keep the depot as a maintenance facility. 16/16A/17/38/38A/38B/41/42/471/472 will be operated from Laird Street when franchising comes in.

 

[Statto]

This is finally a step back in the right direction getting this express bus back. Hopefully with some more changes to include Halton a bit more they will get onto the same level as other areas in the LCR.

The only annoying thing, the X4 is every hour, feel it needs to be every 30 minutes but it's a start, before covid the old X1 was every 30 minutes, & did go through periods when it was every 20 minutes.

Believe the current plan is for Stagecoach to keep Rock Ferry to operate the 1/X1 and potentially some school contracts and keep the depot as a maintenance facility. 16/16A/17/38/38A/38B/41/42/471/472 will be operated from Laird Street when franchising comes in.

Apart from the 1/X1, i've heard that too, Laird Street is big enough to cope with all the routes, & had a lot more routes operating from that depot in the Merseybus era, be interesting if they keep some of interworking arrangements that Laird Street have now, although most likely 407 won't interwork with the 471/472 as it currently does.

 

[Mollman]

It doesn't quite work like that. If Merseytravel think the route should be included in their franchising then it will be included in their franchising.
I know it's a smaller route but the 311/312 are similar and they're operated by Preston Bus. Presumably there would still be options if Merseytravel don't agree to franchise it and also don't agree to let a franchise bid for the route.

I'd say the 319 and the 375/385 will all continue to exist, one way or another.

The 311/312 hardly touch Merseyside simply running into Rainford. As Lancashire contracted services they as with the 319 will simply be run under permit.

Of course if the Liverpool City Region wishes to absorb West Lancashire!

 

[Tetchytyke]

The 311/312 hardly touch Merseyside simply running into Rainford. As Lancashire contracted services they as with the 319 will simply be run under permit

I think people were asking whether Gillmoss could still run it; in Manchester the Bee Network depots seemingly can’t bid for work outside of the network. My point was that if Gillmoss can’t someone would. I doubt Merseytravel would reject permits for the 311/312/319.

 

[nick291]

Just commenting my opinion on the livery which I got to see before the buses went into service thanks to an RTC near Arriva's Birkenhead depot a few weeks ago. It reminds me too much of Blackpool Transport, the colors are eerilie similar.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Just commenting my opinion on the livery which I got to see before the buses went into service thanks to an RTC near Arriva's Birkenhead depot a few weeks ago. It reminds me too much of Blackpool Transport, the colors are eerilie similar.

OTOH compared to the Bee Network's yellow scheme the MerseyMetro colours are brighter and more vibrant. A thumbs-up from me.

 

[gka472l]

Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising current timetable, from a Stagecoach staff memo....
Of note is that St Helens and Wirral seem to be both being franchised from the same date (originally St Helens, then Wirral....), and Liverpool & Sefton being second, but seemingly at the same time.....Halton/Runcorn unknown for the moment.

 

[Polarbear]

Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising current timetable, from a Stagecoach staff memo....
Of note is that St Helens and Wirral seem to be both being franchised from the same date (originally St Helens, then Wirral....), and Liverpool & Sefton being second, but seemingly at the same time.....Halton/Runcorn unknown for the moment.


View attachment 171634

Thanks for the update. I had thought that phase one (St Helens) was scheduled for autumn 2025? That memo suggests the date has been put back about 12 months?

 

[JasonL]

Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising current timetable, from a Stagecoach staff memo....
Of note is that St Helens and Wirral seem to be both being franchised from the same date (originally St Helens, then Wirral....), and Liverpool & Sefton being second, but seemingly at the same time.....Halton/Runcorn unknown for the moment.


View attachment 171634

Has nothing been mentioned about if Arriva keeps the St. Helens garage or not? I'm only asking as St. Helens are NOT getting the brand new 74 plate E200MMCs

 

[gka472l]

Has nothing been mentioned about if Arriva keeps the St. Helens garage or not? I'm only asking as St. Helens are NOT getting the brand new 74 plate E200MMCs

Depends if they bid or not. I don't know if bids have even been invited as of yet....I suspect not if September 2026 is the start

 

[Mollman]

Has nothing been mentioned about if Arriva keeps the St. Helens garage or not? I'm only asking as St. Helens are NOT getting the brand new 74 plate E200MMCs

It appears that LCR are buying all the existing big garages which then form the hub of the area franchise. I expect we won't find out who has won until later in 2025 (probably no more than a year before the franchise starts).

 

[danbarjon]

Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising current timetable, from a Stagecoach staff memo....
Of note is that St Helens and Wirral seem to be both being franchised from the same date (originally St Helens, then Wirral....), and Liverpool & Sefton being second, but seemingly at the same time.....Halton/Runcorn unknown for the moment.


View attachment 171634

Strange news about Widnes and Runcorn but let's just see what happens...