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Metre gauge network in the Deux Sevres / Charente

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DBNR

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Does anyone know anything about the former metre gauge network through the Charente and Deux Sevres regions of SW France? Particularly interested in anything around the St Saviol, Civray, Sauzé Vaussais area

I’ve seen passing reference to the CFD Charentes / Deux Sevres network but wondered if anyone knew more
 
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Gloster

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There is a French Wikipedia article on the CFD Réseau des Charentes et Deux-Sèvres, which at least includes a list of lines. Unless an article appeared in the journal of the French Railways (formerly SNCF) Society, there probably isn’t much in English. One of the French publishers (Les Editions du Cabri?) does or did a series of fairly good histories of local lines, although I think they were region-based, rather than dedicated to a specific company.
 

Gloster

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WJK Davies, Minor Railways of France, 2000, might have something.

It has the translation of a (seemingly non-technical) report on the company (or a predecessor) from 1895, but nothing else is listed in the index. As far as I can remember (I can’t find my copy) Davies’ 1965 book French Minor Railways only covered still extant lines in any detail.
 

DerekC

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Davies' Minor Railways of France (never the easiest book to navigate) does have some information on pp94 - 97 and the tabulation on p107. I will repeat the latter below:

Name Route km Lines Dates
Dept: Charente
Reseau des Charentes et Deux Sevres 63 1 1889-1950
CF Economiques des Charentes 370 7 1895-1946
Dept: Deux-Sevres
Tramways des Deux Sevres 154 3 1897-1975
 

DBNR

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Thank you all for the replies. I’ll check out some of the references though with very limited French could prove challenging!

The line I’m most interested in is that from St Saviol to Saint Jean d’Angély

Triggered by seeing a Rue de Gare in the middle of nowhere near Sauzé Vaussais with no discernable permanent way nearby whilst visiting the in-laws. Saint Saviol itself seems a “suspiciously” large station for the amount of traffic it seems to receive. Was pleased however to see an Alsthom Regiolis there yesterday however.

The new (ish) LGV to Bordeux appears to have killed off any meaningful daytime services through Saint Saviol / Ruffec
 

DerekC

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Here's a page on the CFD Réseau des Charentes et Deux-Sèvres which includes a list of routes and a map - you can zoom in and see the route through Sauzé Vaussais.

https://routes.fandom.com/wiki/CFD_Charentes_et_Deux-Sèvres

Déclarations d'utilité publique​

  • 05 04 1873 Lien :
    • Ligne Saint-Jean-d'Angély - Cognac (intégralité)[1]
    • Ligne Saint-Jean-d'Angély - Marans (section Saint-Jean-d'Angély - Surgères)[1]
  • 18 01 1883 : Ligne Saint-Jean-d'Angély - Marans (section Surgères - Marans) Lien
  • 07 07 1886 : Ligne Angoulême - Matha (section Angoulême - Rouillac) Lien
  • 28 03 1893 : Ligne Saint-Jean-d'Angély - Saint-Saviol (intégralité) Lien :
  • 04 07 1893 : Ligne Angoulême - Matha (section Rouillac - Matha) Lien
  • 31 03 1910 : Ligne Burie - Saintes (intégralité) Lien
  • 26 02 1897 : Ligne Ferrières-d'Aunis - Épannes (intégralité) Lien

Conventions de concession​

  • 05 04 1873 Lien :
    • Ligne Saint-Jean-d'Angély - Cognac (intégralité)[1]
    • Ligne Saint-Jean-d'Angély - Marans (section Saint-Jean-d'Angély - Surgères)[1]
  • 18 01 1883 : Ligne Saint-Jean-d'Angély - Marans (section Surgères - Marans)[2] Lien
  • 07 07 1886 : Ligne Angoulême - Matha (section Angoulême - Rouillac) Lien
  • 28 03 1893 : Ligne Saint-Jean-d'Angély - Saint-Saviol (intégralité) Lien :
  • 04 07 1893 : Ligne Angoulême - Matha (section Rouillac - Matha) Lien
  • 31 03 1910 : Ligne Burie - Saintes (intégralité) Lien
  • 26 02 1897 : Ligne Ferrières-d'Aunis - Épannes (intégralité) Lien
 

Gloster

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If you google the company’s name (drop the CFD) and choose Images, you will find a number of maps among the photos. Most of the maps are irrelevant, often too recent, but a few are quite good.
 

DerekC

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The line I’m most interested in is that from St Saviol to Saint Jean d’Angély

Triggered by seeing a Rue de Gare in the middle of nowhere near Sauzé Vaussais with no discernable permanent way nearby whilst visiting the in-laws.
If the Rue de la Gare you are referring to is D109A northward from D1, about 4km west of Sauzé Vaussais, the "Gare" is still there - spot on the line suggested on the map referenced in post #8. And some track too! Here's a couple of Google Street View images at 46° 7'37.47"N; 0° 3'45.13"E. Unfortunately you can't get a clear shot straight up the drive, but it looks like a station to me!

1659339086680.png

1659339142986.png
 

Calthrop

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It would appear -- from indications which there are within this thread; and from further material in Davies's Minor Railways of France -- that the CFD Reseau des Charentes et Deux Sevres (I'm not equipped to do French accents on letters -- sorry !) continued to run in its entirety, for passenger and freight, until the very end of 1950; and then was closed "en bloc", certainly re passenger services: one infers total abandonment then; or if any freight working continued, it couldn't have been for long.

This is an instance of a phenomenon re the French metre gauge, which causes me particular sadness. While many individual lines, and systems, on this gauge; had closed down in the 1920s and '30s -- a great quantity still remained in service as at the eve of World War II. The war's attendant shortages / privations / difficulties -- especially after France came under German domination as from 1940 -- occasioned a lease of life for numerous rural lines, metre and standard gauge: some, abandoned shortly before the war, were even brought back into service as a response to the difficult conditions. With the return of peace, though: the political / economic scene was such that an enormous amount of hitherto surviving metre gauge, was abandoned over the half-dozen-odd years from 1945 on. The CFD Charentes / Deux Sevres, was among these; one of several metre-gauge systems of the CFD group, which met their end in that brief-ish span of years.
 

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Yes, all the Charente and Deux-Sèvres system stayed open until 1950 and then closed.

A lot of lines had only just been staggering on when war broke out, after which they suddenly became useful, but suffered from heavy use and minimal maintenance. They managed to keep going for a while after the end of the war, but once the roads were put in order and vehicles started to reappear (never underestimate just how devastated much of France was) they became superfluous. Some companies modernised a few of their profitable lines and closed the rest, but many just staggered on in the same way as they always had until the owners realised that they were just deep pits consuming money and were beyond redemption.

I dug out Davies’ 1965 French Minor Railways, but there is virtually nothing of use on the Charente & Deux-Sèvres system in it. It includes histories and other details only on the (then) still existing lines.
 
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DBNR

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If the Rue de la Gare you are referring to is D109A northward from D1, about 4km west of Sauzé Vaussais, the "Gare" is still there - spot on the line suggested on the map referenced in post #8. And some track too! Here's a couple of Google Street View images at 46° 7'37.47"N; 0° 3'45.13"E. Unfortunately you can't get a clear shot straight up the drive, but it looks like a station to me!

View attachment 118514

View attachment 118515
It was cycling past this last week that sent me on this rabbit hole! Definitely an interesting feature for your drive way

And thanks so much for all of your other replies everyone - much appreciated!

Yes, all the Charente and Deux-Sèvres system stayed open until 1950 and then closed.

A lot of lines had only just been staggering on when war broke out, after which they suddenly became useful, but suffered from heavy use and minimal maintenance. They managed to keep going for a while after the end of the war, but once the roads were put in order and vehicles started to reappear (never underestimate just how devastated much of France was) they became superfluous. Some companies modernised a few of their profitable lines and closed the rest, but many just staggered on in the same way as they always had until the owners realised that they were just deep pits consuming money and were beyond redemption.

I dug out Davies’ 1965 French Minor Railways, but there is virtually nothing of use on the Charente & Deux-Sèvres system in it. It includes histories and other details only on the (then) still existing lines.
Yes the Wiki article I found suggested that 1950 was the demise of the system. Interesting that so few clues of the former railway seem to be around the area
 

Gloster

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Interesting that so few clues of the former railway seem to be around the area

Without having any definite information I think it is likely that there are still some remnants, but they are not obvious. Much of the course of the lines was probably along the side of the public roads and has probably been lost to road widening. Many of the smallest stations and halts were little more than small sheds that have been lost, reused for something or (possibly) incorporated in another building. Larger stations were likely to be in a style that was a variant of what I would describe as ‘French municipal’ and so are not particularly noticeable among other similar buildings.

As most stations had low or non-existant platforms and goods yards would, in most cases, consist of no more than a small shed they would simply disappear over time. There probably weren’t any major buildings, even in the main towns, and many lines never had the cash to replace their original wooden buildings, which have either disappeared or been repaired to unrecognisability. If you had a map you could probably follow the lines‘ course and from time to time see a building and think, “That must have been the station.” (This is not based on specific knowledge of the particular system. It is drawn from what seems to be a widespread pattern in France.)
 

Calthrop

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Without having any definite information I think it is likely that there are still some remnants, but they are not obvious. Much of the course of the lines was probably along the side of the public roads and has probably been lost to road widening. Many of the smallest stations and halts were little more than small sheds that have been lost, reused for something or (possibly) incorporated in another building. Larger stations were likely to be in a style that was a variant of what I would describe as ‘French municipal’ and so are not particularly noticeable among other similar buildings.

As most stations had low or non-existant platforms and goods yards would, in most cases, consist of no more than a small shed they would simply disappear over time. There probably weren’t any major buildings, even in the main towns, and many lines never had the cash to replace their original wooden buildings, which have either disappeared or been repaired to unrecognisability. If you had a map you could probably follow the lines‘ course and from time to time see a building and think, “That must have been the station.” (This is not based on specific knowledge of the particular system. It is drawn from what seems to be a widespread pattern in France.)

If I might offer a few thoughts prompted by these matters: I gather that the CFD Reseau des Charentes et Deux Sevres was in fact -- as French metre-gauge railways went -- quite substantially and solidly constructed and equipped: as W.J.K Davies observes, "... very much a mainstream CFD system. Running mainly on its own right of way, it ... was generally efficient, if dull." (Mr. Davies: are you hard to please, or what?) In general, the French metre gauge would seem to have come in two "flavours": lines / systems designated as of Interet General -- usually relatively well and solidly built and engineered; and those designated as of Interet Local, which tended to be more lightly built and engineered, and more roadside-steam-tramway-ish (these were tendencies: not "black / white" inevitably so, either way). "CFD Charentes / Deux Sevres", with its five -- or six, depending on how one reckons -- lines, was all Interet General, except for the Matha -- Angouleme line, which was -- presumably owing to some quirky reason -- Interet Local.

I'd tend to figure, though; that pretty well anywhere in Western Europe, a narrow-gauge railway -- even if originally solid and well-built -- running through a basically low-lying landscape varying from flat to gently hilly (which description applies, I gather, to the parts of western France with which we are concerned here): will, if it was abandoned seventy-plus years ago, indeed have few easily recognisable traces remaining today. As per @Gloster above -- probably a chance of, now and again, seeing a building; and reckoning, was probably -- or for sure -- the station.

There is a guy who posts quite frequently on the "Railway History and Nostalgia" sub-forum, with interesting items on long-closed, usually minor / light-railway / narrow-gauge, railways -- has done such items on one-time French metre-gauge lines, as well as many lines in the British Isles -- with both material from the days when these outfits were still running; and involving numerous photographs of recent date, supplemented with meticulous and ingenious "addenda" showing or strongly suggesting where the railway used to run -- with "phots" of such structures as recognisably survive today. I have the feeling that if this gentleman were let loose on the CFD Charentes etc.'s one-time routes, he would come up with impressive results !

An interesting and unusual feature of this part of France and its railways, is -- clue, the name "Reseau des Charentes" (plural) -- rail-system-overspreading between the departement of Charente; and that of Charente Maritime (previously called Charente Inferieure) immediately to its west. The CFD system had trackage in both; and also, as its name indicates, some in the far south of the departement of Deux Sevres, immediately north of the "two Charentes" -- including the line which first attracted the OP's attention. There was also much additional metre gauge in both of the "two Charentes": belonging to the Chemins de Fer Economiques des Charentes. This undertaking (incidentally, very extensive -- it had some two and a half times the trackage length of that of the CFD system, against which it frequently abutted) was totally Interet Local: very lightly constructed, and largely roadside. Essentially, hopeless once road motor transport was in the ascendant -- lines of this concern began closing in the early 1930s: diesel railcars were introduced, and may have helped a little -- some of the system was still open as at the onset of World War II, and got a reprieve because of wartime conditions -- the last line was abandoned in 1947. One would feel that trying to plot today, the course of one-time Economiques des Charentes routes; would be a decidedly challenging task.
 

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I just came across this thread and was interested in the existence of these railways in an area I’ve been to a few times. I never knew or expected something like this to exist. So I googled a bit more and I found a page on a kind of Wikipedia for roads and they have a list of links (under Liens Archéologie ferroviaire) to a railway archeology website containing maps of the different lines. I didn’t see these links before in this thread and might be of interest to others.

 

DBNR

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Here's a thread on a French language forum, one of whose members is tracing out part of the route of the CFD de Charente et Deux Sevres exactly as @Calthrop suggests. The use of a 1931 Michelin map as a mapping source, with lots of reference to Google Earth, seems to be a good basis. The OP obviously has French connections, so maybe can make contact with our French counterparts!

http://www.passion-metrique.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9328&hilit=gare+surgères&start=150
Great find, thanks for this and to @Gloster and @Calthrop for your insights. I’ll check out this link! My French connection is that my in-laws have a place in SW France in the area concerned, Deux Sevres. It was while cycling around there that I came across the “Rue de Gare” I referenced above. I have not French unfortunately (plenty of German though!) so Google translate to the rescue!

I just came across this thread and was interested in the existence of these railways in an area I’ve been to a few times. I never knew or expected something like this to exist. So I googled a bit more and I found a page on a kind of Wikipedia for roads and they have a list of links (under Liens Archéologie ferroviaire) to a railway archeology website containing maps of the different lines. I didn’t see these links before in this thread and might be of interest to others.

Again this is great, thanks very much for your reply
 
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