Metrolink - how does it cope with football/cricket/concert events?

[deltic]

The sport venues are there to provide access to the general public to watch sports, which is their sole raison d'etre. How the general public travel to such venues is one for the general public to concern itself with, not the sports venues.

That is not the case for new developments, the development needs to mitigate its impact on the transport network. Transport impact assessments are hotly contested and scrutinised for major developments whatever their nature and especially sports venues given the huge number of additional trips they generate in very concentrated time periods.

 

[zwk500]

That is not the case for new developments, the development needs to mitigate its impact on the transport network. Transport impact assessments are hotly contested and scrutinised for major developments whatever their nature and especially sports venues given the huge number of additional trips they generate in very concentrated time periods.

Plenty of new sports arenas have been held up or had to fork over vast amounts for public transport improvements. Sometimes it's mainly the queuing infrastructure, but it can be to provide additional operating infrastructure as well.
Anybody have an estimated revenue for a Man Utd or City game to Metrolink/TfGM?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Anybody have an estimated revenue for a Man Utd or City game to Metrolink/TfGM?

Maybe £30,000 for an Old Trafford fixture? (Up to 10,000 passengers multiplied by the typical £3-50 2-zone fare).

 

[renegademaster]

Metrolink can always just say "close old Trafford every time theirs a game" , it's not unusual for places to do that. Them opening is their own choice

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Metrolink can always just say "close old Trafford every time theirs a game" , it's not unusual for places to do that. Them opening is their own choice

Sorry, not quite sure what point you're endeavouring to make. There's three/four Metrolink lines running fairly near to the Manchester United stadium. Are you saying that none of these tram lines should be operated by Metrolink on a United match day?

 

[renegademaster]

Sorry, not quite sure what point you're endeavouring to make. There's three/four Metrolink lines running fairly near to the Manchester United stadium. Are you saying that none of these tram lines should be operated by Metrolink on a United match day?

No but the people complaining that Man U should be paying money towards should know Metrolink choose voluntarily to service them and it's not like they have forced the crowds upon them.

 

[Starmill]

Is that a recent change? When I used to commute using Metrolink it was the normal frequency for Eccles and Media city services on match days but more double sets.

Yes and no. If it's a Sunday you don't have a choice really. Until last month there were no MCUK - Etihad Campus shorts to strengthen.

 

[zwk500]

Maybe £30,000 for an Old Trafford fixture? (Up to 10,000 passengers multiplied by the typical £3-50 2-zone fare).

10,000 put of 75,000 seems slightly low to me, but maybe I've just got a London weighting from attending mainly matches in Twickenham (notably the 15,000 capacity of the Stoop goes pretty much unnoticed by SWR)

 

[Bald Rick]

10,000 put of 75,000 seems slightly low to me, but maybe I've just got a London weighting from attending mainly matches in Twickenham (notably the 15,000 capacity of the Stoop goes pretty much unnoticed by SWR)

For Man U, most home fans come up the M6 from Surrey

 

[zwk500]

For Man U, most home fans come up the M6 from Surrey

Was expecting a large transfer from Avanti to Tram at Piccadilly!

 

[DarloRich]

how does it cope with the huge demand arising from these venues?

a queuing system and double trams - the journeys form both grounds to the city centre are short so the trams just load up and roll out one after the other.

Trying to move even a small proportion of the 50,000+ spectators from the Emirates or Old Trafford stadiums on a small tram network is never going to be achieved.

but they do, every week. Quite easily..........

( for manure fans you just need services to Piccadilly )

To be fair, both Old Traffords and the Etihad were there before the tram network came alongside them.

even the old tram network

Old Trafford has its own main line train station too

It has been "out of service" for several years - which adds to the tram loadings. The trains were a popular way to get people to the match.

The sport venues are there to provide access to the general public to watch sports, which is their sole raison d'etre. How the general public travel to such venues is one for the general public to concern itself with, not the sports venues.

it tends to be part of the planning process these days - if Manure were to extend OT they would have to come up with a plan for travel management.

There's three/four Metrolink lines running fairly near to the Manchester United stadium.

A friend of a friend who is a Manure season ticket holder ( not a manc obvs!) has a tram priority for getting home:

Media City, IWM, Pomona, then OT. One thing the OT area is not short of is tram lines!

 

[sprunt]

I went to the football at Old Trafford last night - not by tram, got a lift from a friend who parked at Salford Quays - and walking back after the match I noticed that no city-bound trains were stopping at Imperial War Museum, the displays were telling people to use Wharfside station instead. Why would they be doing this? I've often walked to the next stop along from the one nearest the ground on various lines to avoid the crowd at the stations near the ground, indeed I walked to IWM after a game in April this year and there was no big crowd there causing any problem, just a few other people who'd done the same as me. If I were using the tram last night and I'd done this I think I'd have been pretty annoyed.

 

[Jamesrob637]

There were doubles on the Trafford Centre line yesterday (because of the match, which fortunately went the right way ) but I wasn't aware they were skipping out the IWM station. I presume Bury-Altrincham and Eccles lines were doubles too yesterday. It was a nice evening, and not even as chilly as previous evenings - rain didn't start until 23h.

 

[weaste_of_time]

The Eccles line does not run doubles for matches at Old Trafford - only for matches at the Etihad

 

[Tetchytyke]

Why would they be doing this?

Wharfside has the queuing facilities, IWM doesn’t, and IWM as an island platform could get dangerously overcrowded very quickly. I presume more people have cottoned on to the idea of walking a stop to avoid the queues, so Metrolink have had to intervene.

 

[507 001]

We do the same after city matches, both Velopark and Holt town close for around an hour to ensure people go to Etihad Campus.

 

[northwichcat]

To be fair, both Old Traffords and the Etihad were there before the tram network came alongside them.

Old Trafford has its own main line train station too

Old Trafford Metrolink was a mainline station before Metrolink conversion. Given how long some of the platforms are on the Altrincham Metrolink line I suspect 8 carriage electric trains could be used on limited stop services and perhaps even 6 carriage diesel trains on limited stops from Chester - Northwich's and Knutsford's platforms are a long way over the 4 carriage length that stations like Lostock Gralam and Greenbank have.

Pre-Metrolink that probably meant passengers spread between two stations, depending where exactly they were going back to. Perhaps even some football specials operated?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Of course, it's now some 32 years since Warwick Road railway station (= Old Trafford Metrolink station, as was) was last B.R. served. Maybe a topic for a separate thread to discuss how it once was?

 

[northwichcat]

Of course, it's now some 32 years since Warwick Road railway station (= Old Trafford Metrolink station, as was) was last B.R. served. Maybe a topic for a separate thread to discuss how it once was?

The point made by Bald Rick is fair though. The Metrolink planners knew Old Trafford (football and cricket grounds) were there and how people got their previously. Hence, they were responsible for implementing a solution that met that demand.

The platform space at Old Trafford Metrolink is probably some of the most generous waiting space at a tram stop you'd find anywhere in the world, partly in thanks to what BR had provided for heavy rail.

 

[507 001]

The platform space at Old Trafford Metrolink is probably some of the most generous waiting space at a tram stop you'd find anywhere in the world

They’re the longest non-terminal platforms on the system. Length deliberately retained to accommodate 2x double units.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The platform space at Old Trafford Metrolink is probably some of the most generous waiting space at a tram stop you'd find anywhere in the world, partly in thanks to what BR had provided for heavy rail.

Are you sure? The Manchester bound platform at Old Trafford Metrolink tram station has been extensively rebuilt / re-sited since BR days (think the work was done around 2009 so some 17 years after Metrolink first opened in 1992) and the platform is now located on the South side of the track level passenger crossing, which in turn, in BR days, was just a limited headroom underpass.

 

[northwichcat]

Are you sure? The Manchester bound platform at Old Trafford Metrolink tram station has been extensively rebuilt / re-sited since BR days (think the work was done around 2009 so some 17 years after Metrolink first opened in 1992) and the platform is now located on the South side of the track level passenger crossing, which in turn, in BR days, was just a limited headroom underpass.

I'm not sure what you're implying. I was referring to the stop in general, not one specific platform. I also said partly thanks to what BR provided. Are you implying the new Manchester platform has more space than the old, or that the Altrincham bound platform has been expanded since BR days?

Also worth remembering the structure of the adjacent cricket ground has changed since BR days, so any alterations to the Manchester side had to align with that.

Don't forget some football fans heading into Manchester after a game realise that Old Trafford will be very busy, so instead walk to other stops like Trafford Bar, Wharfside and Exchange Quay. Metrolink avoid advertising Trafford Bar too much due to it's poor accessibility but people know it's there and that's it pointless going up to Cornbrook and back to change between the Airport/East Didsbury and Altrincham lines unless you're disabled.

 

[Richardr]

I'm not sure what you're implying. I was referring to the stop in general, not one specific platform. I also said partly thanks to what BR provided. Are you implying the new Manchester platform has more space than the old, or that the Altrincham bound platform has been expanded since BR days?

Also worth remembering the structure of the adjacent cricket ground has changed since BR days, so any alterations to the Manchester side had to align with that.

Don't forget some football fans heading into Manchester after a game realise that Old Trafford will be very busy, so instead walk to other stops like Trafford Bar, Wharfside and Exchange Quay. Metrolink avoid advertising Trafford Bar too much due to it's poor accessibility but people know it's there and that's it pointless going up to Cornbrook and back to change between the Airport/East Didsbury and Altrincham lines unless you're disabled.

I have wandered as far as MediaCity before now to evade the nearer queues. For Man City, I find it near enough to walk back to the centre.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I'm not sure what you're implying. I was referring to the stop in general, not one specific platform. I also said partly thanks to what BR provided. Are you implying the new Manchester platform has more space than the old, or that the Altrincham bound platform has been expanded since BR days?

The former. Author Martin Bairstow backs up this key point in his 2014 book "The Manchester South Junction & Altrincham Railway"...

The station was rebuilt in 2009 with a wider Manchester bound platform, complete with crowd control facilities. The subway was replaced by a pedestrian level crossing. With the platforms now staggered and all services stopping before the crossing, this is considered safer than the subway.

So, whilst the Altrincham bound platform indeed hasn't changed all that much since 1992, the (main) Manchester bound platform at the station is significantly wider than before, has zig-zag crowd control pens for use on match day/event days, and, of course, no longer occupies the same footprint as its BR era (island platform) predecessor, which, to all intents and purposes, has now long gone.

So, to conclude, whilst Old Trafford Metrolink tram stop has generous waiting space for those waiting for inbound trams (to Manchester), it's not really correct to suggest that this is because of what BR had previously provided for heavy rail. It's not really the same station layout any more.

 

[northwichcat]

So, whilst the Altrincham bound platform indeed hasn't changed all that much since 1992, the (main) Manchester bound platform at the station is significantly wider than before, has zig-zag crowd control pens for use on match day/event days, and, of course, no longer occupies the same footprint as its BR era (island platform) predecessor, which, to all intents and purposes, has now long gone.

Did the original station have a barrow crossing? Some of the pen use is required due to large numbers of passengers needing to cross the line when there's trams every 6 minutes in both directions. A photo on the Wikipedia page shows this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Trafford_tram_stop#/media/File:Old_Trafford_tram_stop.jpg

It looks like it's being taken as fans are arriving for a match and seems to show a man in hi vis having stopped anymore people having arrived on the Altrincham bound tram from crossing, so that the Piccadilly bound tram can pass. It also seems to show a large number of fans arriving in both directions. So you can't just keep referring to Metrolink rebuilding one platform, the layout of both platforms is relevant, both before and after matches. If Metrolink have deemed the Altrincham bound platform doesn't need to be remodelled, they must have decided what BR built meets the compromise of meeting demand and sticking to budgets.

 

[507 001]

So, to conclude, whilst Old Trafford Metrolink tram stop has generous waiting space for those waiting for inbound trams (to Manchester), it's not really correct to suggest that this is because of what BR had previously provided for heavy rail. It's not really the same station layout any more

Actually it is, although indirectly.

The new platform is in a different location to the original, but it is built to specifically match the length of the original down (now outbound) platform.

As I’ve said above it is long enough to accommodate two double units, albeit only just.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@northwichcat. The picture you've linked to appears to be from 2017 and essentially shows how things are now. Prior to the 2009 rebuild, Old Trafford Metrolink station (Warwick Road station, as was) had a somewhat claustrophobic, low headroom, pedestrian underpass. If I rightly recall, back in BR days, special tickets were sold, albeit only on match days / event days, to permit non rail users to cross from one side of the railway line to the other, but always only by means of the subway.

 

[Greybeard33]

Did the original station have a barrow crossing? Some of the pen use is required due to large numbers of passengers needing to cross the line when there's trams every 6 minutes in both directions. A photo on the Wikipedia page shows this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Trafford_tram_stop#/media/File:Old_Trafford_tram_stop.jpg

It looks like it's being taken as fans are arriving for a match and seems to show a man in hi vis having stopped anymore people having arrived on the Altrincham bound tram from crossing, so that the Piccadilly bound tram can pass. It also seems to show a large number of fans arriving in both directions. So you can't just keep referring to Metrolink rebuilding one platform, the layout of both platforms is relevant, both before and after matches. If Metrolink have deemed the Altrincham bound platform doesn't need to be remodelled, they must have decided what BR built meets the compromise of meeting demand and sticking to budgets.

The queuing pens at Old Trafford are only used after a match, to prevent ticketless travel by forcing passengers to pass through turnstiles, and to control access to the platforms to avoid dangerous overcrowding.

The arriving fans in that photo are walking directly from the platforms on to Brian Statham Way, bypassing the pens. After a match, gates are closed to block the direct routes to the platforms.

Both before and after matches, stewards regulate pedestrian movement across the foot crossing in order that departing trams are not obstructed.

 

[EastMidlandsAi]

The queuing pens at Old Trafford are only used after a match, to prevent ticketless travel by forcing passengers to pass through turnstiles, and to control access to the platforms to avoid dangerous overcrowding.

How do turnstiles prevent ticketless travel? Are manual ticket checks made?

 

[WatcherZero]

Yeah, staff check and sell tickets in the queueing pen to avoid people using platform machines and throttle access to the platform, they do the same at Etihad and in the past there were queuing pens at Shudehill as well as Piccadilly Station (but ones at Piccadilly weren't in service long due I think to concern on fire evacuations).