Middlewich Line re-opening

[northwichcat]

The line's 50-75 in the main between Chester and Stockport. The exception is over the Leftwich viaduct.

I should have also added the other exception is Deansgate Junction-Skelton Junction. However, we'll never see high line speeds on any section of track as curvy as that. The best we can hope for is to not have Pacers squealing around it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I should have also added the other exception is Deansgate Junction-Skelton Junction. However, we'll never see high line speeds on any section of track as curvy as that. The best we can hope for is to not have Pacers squealing around it.

I was wondering just how long it would take for someone who knows this route and uses the stretch between Stockport and Altrincham would pick up on the very tight curve that exists there as being in need of a speed restriction.

While we are on the subject of this line, what year was it when the plans to put a connection to Manchester Airport from somewhere between Ashley and Hale were finally shelved? I remember some transport body had issued papers for consideration at some time in the past, but business in those days led me to be away in Europe for periods of time and I never knew the final outcome and who it was that made the final decision.

 

[northwichcat]

While we are on the subject of this line, what year was it when the plans to put a connection to Manchester Airport from somewhere between Ashley and Hale were finally shelved? I remember some transport body had issued papers for consideration at some time in the past, but business in those days led me to be away in Europe for periods of time and I never knew the final outcome and who it was that made the final decision.

They've not been shelved. Although the proposals were first suggested in the mid 1990s the issue is not the new line wouldn't be beneficial to build but the funds aren't available to do it as it would require a tunnel under the runway, which obviously wouldn't be cheap. The North West RUS from a couple of years back recommended reviewing it again in the 2014-2019 CP.

When the third platform was added at Manchester Airport it was positioned in a way so that a fourth through platform could still be added in.

The proposed line would actually leave Mid Cheshire line between Mobberley and Ashley stations

 

[Nym]

Can I jump in a mo there and say it wouldn't need to tunnel under a runway, it wouldn't even really need to tunnel under any apron, or for that long, it would need to go underneith the current GTI, and if you can put up with a curvey route, immerge north of T2 and south of the M56 spur, then be carried over the M56 between J5 and J6 on a bridge before joining ground level running south of Alt'ham, or run on through Sharston Ind Estate to join in North of Alt'ham.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=208537899835423960920.0004a23727e42579a125e

I'm favouring option two, even with extended journey times, it doesn't avoid Alt'ham, although option 3 would be nice, it depends on the desired service patterns.

EDIT: Just saw where you said it would join, that would roughly be route three, although I suspect it would be in deep level tunnels under the T2/Cargo Apron

 

[tbtc]

When the third platform was added at Manchester Airport it was positioned in a way so that a fourth through platform could still be added in

Is that space not going to be needed for the trams?

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/pdf/future_metrolink/airport-line/manchester-airport.pdf

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is that space not going to be needed for the trams?

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/pdf/future_metrolink/airport-line/manchester-airport.pdf

I heard comment on another thread about the fourth platform at Manchester Airport being situated at the area of the end of the existing rail platforms and having to be connected by a footbridge due to the lack of available space.

Have any readers of this thread heard of this and is there any truth in it?

 

[Nym]

theres a fair few places the met platforms can do at Manchester, one big one I'm thinking of would be at 'street level' in the Manchester Airport GTI Complex.

Any number of options for where to shove some light rail platforms...

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=208537899835423960920.0004a23858593732a122f

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Hi Paul,

Yes, sorry, I did reply to your original posting, but my reply seems to have got lost in the ether somewhere. I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and thank you for your encouraging words.
We've seen the fortunes of the railway industry, and the way it is perceived, change dramatically since the campaign started in 1992 and we are now more confident than ever of the eventual success of our scheme. But we are well aware of the difficulties that lie ahead, particularly in our dealings with Network Rail.
That said, the viability of the idea and the potential it has for improving transport not only in this area, but throughout the North West is not in doubt.
Apologies to everyone on this forum if I occasionally sound a little tetchy, but the old 'you're dreaming', 'you're wasting your time' arguments were dealt with, as far as we're concerned, years ago.
The question is no longer 'will it happen?', but 'when will it happen?'
We welcome the constructive discussion and suggestions from members of the forum.
I was interested, too, in your comments about stations situated a distance away from the towns they serve.
One famous example, of course, is Crewe station, but for somewhat unusual reasons, in that here it was the station that came first, not the town.
Ironically, the old Middlewich Station and its proposed replacement do not fall into this category. Both are within easy walking distance of the town centre (and, crucially, the housing developments from whence will come the commuters who will use the line).

Dave, just to let you know there is a new thread posted today, Sunday 1st May, about more services to stations at both Whitchurch and Nantwich due to the amount of work taken to achieve these. It might give you hope that your planning will come to fruition. Have a read of this.

 

[CheshirePaul]

Dave, just to let you know there is a new thread posted today, Sunday 1st May, about more services to stations at both Whitchurch and Nantwich due to the amount of work taken to achieve these. It might give you hope that your planning will come to fruition. Have a read of this.

Yes thats my tread,

As far as I am aware both Cheshire East council and Nantwich Town council along with Edward Timpson MP have been in talks with ATW for a good few years regarding rail service from Nantwich station due to the large amount of local people commuting to Mancheter for work.

Also for your intrest the old Nantwich station building is now a Indian resturaunt, but the waste land around it is still owned by ATW and the council for many years had been pushing for a proper car cark to be built for the station users. But in the last copy of the town council news letter they will not sell that land to the council to turn it in to a proper station car park, and for sum reason thay just want to hold on to the waste land that people park on anyway.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes thats my tread,

As far as I am aware both Cheshire East council and Nantwich Town council along with Edward Timpson MP have been in talks with ATW for a good few years regarding rail service from Nantwich station due to the large amount of local people commuting to Mancheter for work.

Also for your intrest the old Nantwich station building is now a Indian resturaunt, but the waste land around it is still owned by ATW and the council for many years had been pushing for a proper car cark to be built for the station users. But in the last copy of the town council news letter they will not sell that land to the council to turn it in to a proper station car park, and for sum reason thay just want to hold on to the waste land that people park on anyway.

Sounds like ATW seeing land there as an asset that may increase in value and then to sell when a far better price looks to be forthcoming.

Anyway, congratulations on your service improvements. I can see the undoubted attraction of Nantwich as a place from which to commute. The only thing, rail wise, that is a pity, is the number of the road level crossings of the railway there.

 

[tbtc]

Sounds like ATW seeing land there as an asset that may increase in value and then to sell when a far better price looks to be forthcoming

Presumably it's not "their" land to sell, but part of the assets of the franchise ultimately owned by Network Rail?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Presumably it's not "their" land to sell, but part of the assets of the franchise ultimately owned by Network Rail?

Knowing ATW, I would not put anything past them....then to claim protection from the Welsh Assembly claiming that Owen Glendowr took possession of this land in perpetuity as it was really Welsh when the better-off :roll:Celts ...The Cheshire Celts...lived here.

Sorry about this joviality...Sunday Night syndrome:roll:. Of course, I realise that Network Rail are the owners. It is just a pity that this piece of land cannot be upgraded to provide a more useful purpose for the local rail users. Cheshire Paul has made some good points here.

 

[northwichcat]

Is that space not going to be needed for the trams?

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/pdf/future_metrolink/airport-line/manchester-airport.pdf

No the trams will enter the Airport at street level so I imagine the Airport station will finish up like a smaller version of Manchester Piccadilly with trains at one level and trams at a lower level.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No, the trams will enter the Airport at street level, so I imagine the Airport station will finish up like a smaller version of Manchester Piccadilly, with trains at one level and trams at a lower level.

If you remember, I made a posting about six weeks ago, having then come back from York to Manchester Airport on platform 3A, which is next to where the tram terminal is shown on the link that was put in as part of a thread answer. I said that I was sure that the soil heap between platform 3A and the building housing the existing bus station would soon be removed, once the construction of the Metrolink terminal platforms were installed.

You did, at that time, say that the trams would be at a lower level than the trains in that situation, but I see no reason why both trains and trams cannot be at the SAME LEVEL, as escalators (that the plan suggested in the Metrolink platform area) already are in existance for train passengers at platform level at Manchester Airport rail station that take rail passengers up to the level of the ticket barriers.

Have you any further thoughts on this matter?.

 

[Nym]

Catering changeovers currently happen at Piccadilly through platforms anyway, but the chances are they will move the catering operations at least partly to Victoria, as TPE North's primary station will be Victoria, TPE South and TPE NW will use Piccadilly, South may use Pic and Vic.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Catering changeovers currently happen at Piccadilly through platforms anyway, but the chances are they will move the catering operations at least partly to Victoria, as TPE North's primary station will be Victoria, TPE South and TPE NW will use Piccadilly, South may use Pic and Vic.

Travelling so much as I do on services from Manchester Airport on First TPE North trains to Newcastle and Middlesbrough and also on the First TPE South train that goes to Cleethorpes (but only for travel to Sheffield and Doncaster in the main), which always require reversal at the terminal platforms where the catering trolley is loaded, I completely forgot that catering trolleys are actually loaded on in the through platform for services through Bolton onwards, but having to do this there is working in a narrow area with passengers milling around.

Thank you for correcting me on that point.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Middlewich is not just another 'pie-in-the-sky' idea dreamed up (I hate that phrase) by idealistic enthusiasts longing for an unattainable goal. I have said on many occasions that if someone can give me hard facts and figures to show that we are 'wasting our time' I'll drop my involvement immediately. No one has. Ever.

There has been major housing development to the west of the old town of Middlewich (indeed, according to the developers, there is a lot more to come in the future) and, fortuitously, the proposed Middlewich Station lies within easy walking distance of this massive housing estate which, equally fortuitously, houses a great many professionals and semi-professionals who work in that area and are forced to use their cars and contribute to the awful congestion on the A556 and other road routes into Manchester and Altrincham.

Incidentally, the Middlewich line was not one of Dr Beeching's casualties; it closed at the end of 1959 due to competition from bus companies, which have provided services of varying quality ever since; services which can not, in this day and age, be considered a replacement for a proper commuter train service. Our campaign was started in 1992 by the Mid Cheshire Rail Users' Association, the user group for the Chester-Manchester line, which identified yet another advantage of re-opening the Sandbach-Middlewich-Northwich line - the provision of a direct service to Crewe for passengers from stations West of Northwich, obviating the need to travel to Crewe via Chester or Manchester.

I wonder if Dave Roberts will be able to give the forum any more updated progress reports of how this matter is proceeding.

The line to Middlewich came up as part of a topic on another thead this weekend about Hartford station and its environs.