Misuse of Spouse travel Pass

[Fawkes Cat]

How do I get a Solicitor please

Have a look at your union’s website: at a quick glance, all of RMT, ASLEF and TSSA tell you how to get in touch with their solicitors. I would expect this to be cheaper than appointing your own lawyer, the contacts are likely to be experienced in employment matters, and because they have worked with your union for years, they will have a realistic view of what your union rep has done so far.

I much prefer @Haywain’s advice (above but posted simultaneously) to my initial thoughts - go with that

 

[Tallguy]

I don’t know how to provide evidence, I’m willing to get statements from the friend the helped me with accommodation staying with him when things were really bad... as he can testify to all what was happening
But my union rep ain’t helping he just keep saying I was responsible for the pass and so on... but not considering the circumstances I was in and around me, last thing on my mind was the pass
Don’t know what to do now

How do I get a Solicitor please

I’m no expert in these matters but if you don’t have confidence in your union rep then I suggest going to the next level up in the Union and asking for referral to their Solicitor who may be in-house or an external firm. As another board member commented you can’t take the Solicitor into your disciplinary hearing but they can provide you with good advice and the Union Solicitor may well have previous case experience In this area. As you face a charge of gross misconduct I suggest getting legal consultation sooner rather than later.

I suggest that your Union Solicitor will know far more about disciplinary procedures within your employers company than an external Solicitor from a specialist employment firm.

You (like me) pay your Union sub, now is the time to get your money’s worth out of it.

 

[father_jack]

The "hierachy" amongst the trade union organisation in my experience would usually be local rep- divisional council rep- full time officer. So you have options as you go up the chain.

 

[ukkid]

You can ring employment law solicitors for advice. You can also ring ACAS. They can read through everything and give advice and possibly make representations of it comes to that.
Edit: as Tallguy suggests above, a referral to your union solicitor, might be better

You can’t take a solicitor into a disciplinary hearing, so that is not the appropriate advice at this point.

Im not suggesting he takes one to a disciplinary hearing ( Colleague or union rep, some allow friends from what I recall but digress) . However he's not precluded from taking legal advice now and assistance in any submissions or subsequent appeal.

They can certainly advise better on whether the procedures have been followed, if he's been fully heard, if the findings are reasonable etc.
There have been claims above about it being to monitor a spouses pass amounts to coercive control thus unreasonable. Frankly I would think a solicitor will know better if that's a defence or a nonstarter than a debate on here.

 

[Hadders]

I agree with @Haywain I would escalate it within the union in the first instance.

 

[HSP 2]

I agree with @Haywain I would escalate it within the union in the first instance.

I'm in agreement with Hadders and Haywain get in touch with your area rep at the branch office also get in touch with the staff welfare dep. ASAP. If this had been pasted to me this would have been flagged up to the area rep. from day one.

 

[WesternLancer]

You can’t take a solicitor into a disciplinary hearing, so that is not the appropriate advice at this point. I would suggest, in the first instance, phoning your union’s regional or head office and requesting their assistance, explaining your lack of confidence in the local rep. I would hope (but not be certain) that they can put you in touch with a more senior and more experienced officer.

Yep - might be worth looking for local solicitors as well (to save time later if required and get cost estimates etc) OP - you need to look for solicitor who specialises in employment law I would think - try this to find a few near you.

Find a Solicitor - The Law Society

Find A Solicitor is a free service from The Law Society for anyone looking for legal services in England and Wales that are regulated by the SRA

solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk

But I agree with Haywain - you need to 'escalate' with in the union ASAP - and someone at union regional or head office should be able to access their legal help (ie the union's solicitors) at the appropriate time - this is what you pay union subs for - and that service would be free. You need to politely explain that your local rep hasn't managed to solve this problem and you are now under a threat of Gross Misconduct dismissal and you need a better / more experienced / more sympathetic rep to help or the help of a full time union official - ie someone employed by the union (as opposed to a volunteer workplace rep). If this get nowhere, go to a private solicitor local to you

Other reps who have posted on this thread may be able to best advise on how to do this with the union concerned I would think.

Also - think about any scraps of evidence you might have to support the circs of your relationship breakdown - even a list on paper of when you recall speaking to your partner about use of the pass eg

"April 2019 - I verbally stressed to my partner that the spouse pass should not be used for work related travel"
"Oct 2019 - tested my partner when I believed she may have used...."

Get whatever you can written down.

Good luck

 

[AlterEgo]

Other than the sensible suggestions to escalate within the Union, I fear much of the advice here misses the real cruncher.
It is neither here nor there whether the OP had a good or bad relationship with his wife. The fact remains, he was responsible for the spousal pass and a condition of its use is that he takes reasonable steps to prevent misuse.
I don’t think anyone whose spouse defrauded the railway to the tune of over £8,000 could reasonably defend this - and the “deteriorated relationship” defence is minimal at best and at worst is an aggravating factor. The OP, if he thought the wife was deceptive, uncooperative or otherwise not trustworthy, should not have allowed her to have the pass. It would be far easier to feel sympathy or mount a defence for someone whose relationship with their wife was excellent - but she hoodwinked him.
This is a very large fraud as far as staff travel goes and the outcome will likely not be a good one. Please do escalate it within the Union - they are there to protect you and provide assistance and will accompany you at the gross misconduct hearing.

 

[Haywain]

you need a better / more experienced / more sympathetic rep to help or the help of a full time union official - ie someone employed by the union (as opposed to a volunteer workplace rep).

I think it should be stressed that a 'volunteer' rep (ie; unpaid but nonetheless elected) is not necessarily a poor rep - in some companies the senior 'volunteer' reps are effectively working full time on union matters. Certainly in rail unions reps get access to very high quality training for dealing with disciplinary matters and will certainly spot any procedural errors in the process and be able to deliver a good quality case for the defence. However, in disciplinary matters the burden of proof is 'on the balance of probability' and the paperwork suggests this is a bar that will be passed in this case. The best hope for the OP would appear to be his representative making a case that dismissal would be too severe a penalty. As regards the issue of control or communication between the couple, it is mentioned in the paperwork that there is no evidence to support the status of the relationship - this would likely be seen in the form of having discussed the issue with the business or with a medical practitioner so if this has not been the case it is likely to be a very weak defence, I'm afraid.

 

[WesternLancer]

I think it should be stressed that a 'volunteer' rep (ie; unpaid but nonetheless elected) is not necessarily a poor rep - in some companies the senior 'volunteer' reps are effectively working full time on union matters. Certainly in rail unions reps get access to very high quality training for dealing with disciplinary matters and will certainly spot any procedural errors in the process and be able to deliver a good quality case for the defence. However, in disciplinary matters the burden of proof is 'on the balance of probability' and the paperwork suggests this is a bar that will be passed in this case. The best hope for the OP would appear to be his representative making a case that dismissal would be too severe a penalty. As regards the issue of control or communication between the couple, it is mentioned in the paperwork that there is no evidence to support the status of the relationship - this would likely be seen in the form of having discussed the issue with the business or with a medical practitioner so if this has not been the case it is likely to be a very weak defence, I'm afraid.

That point about reps is well made and I do agree in general with this point, but of course just like anyone (and including Union full time staff or solicitors for that matter), some can be better at putting the case than others.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Whilst the above advice is technically correct, the reality of the situation is unfortunately bleak as I suspect you are only already too aware. Once an employer determines gross negligence should be proceeded with, and especially considering the tone of that letter, I suspect this is almost certain to result in dismissal. As difficult to come to terms with as it sounds, and as unfair as you feel it may be, you are highly likely to be dismissed.

Legally speaking, a dismissal does not necessarily have to be "fair" in the way you may think. It has to be "fair" in that the outcome (e.g. dismissal) was within a reasonable range of sanctions that others making a decision in that position may have considered as reasonable considering the circumstances, and "fair" in that their own internal processes and procedures should be largely followed, (slight deviations etc are generally permitted as long as ultimately the outcome would remain unaffected).

I believe a solicitor or legal professional would actually be useful at this stage to determine:

1) Should you resign (most companies will normally allow an immediate resignation in this situation) - and still be able to obtain some sort of "generic" reference going forwards;

2) Help & support, e.g. speaking to a union on your behalf. I don't know much about rail unions per se, but I do know most unions use Thompsons Law.

3) Being able to provide an honest appraisal as to if you are dismissed, whether you may have a chance to do anything about it afterwards, (e.g. employment tribunal).

4) Given the financial values being mentioned, I would be thinking that civil or criminal action in respect of that may also be taken (not just an internal disciplinary hearing). I am weary that they are using the word "defraud" and calculated the £8350.60 presumably somewhat accurately, suggesting a fair bit of investigation.

5) Depending on your partner's circumstances, you may be able to construct a civil case (i.e. sue them).

 

[theironroad]

I don’t know how to provide evidence, I’m willing to get statements from the friend the helped me with accommodation staying with him when things were really bad... as he can testify to all what was happening
But my union rep ain’t helping he just keep saying I was responsible for the pass and so on... but not considering the circumstances I was in and around me, last thing on my mind was the pass
Don’t know what to do now

How do I get a Solicitor please

I don't know who wrote the letter you received, whether from a department in your own employer or another TOC and who gets to act on it whether it is your depot manager or higher.

However, it does recommend being charged with gross misconduct (often referred to as a clause 9 on the railway).

It appears to be a recommendation but maybe it won't be acted upon, you will need some clarity from you management team on this.

However, I'd start making alternative rep arrangements.

If you're not happy with your local rep (who doesn't seem to be helping) or is out of their depth, I'd bypass them and either make contact in the first instance with your company council (dfc? Functional council? - the name seems to differ between regions). There should be more than one company council rep.

Failing that, you could contact your aslef district organiser (details in diary) for advice, but really should contact your own company council first.

Your company council may be able to mediate a solution for you without a clause 9.

While I don't want to alarm you , a clause 9 decision can lead to instant dismissal with pay stopping from that date. (The decision can be appealed and if a appeal was successful you'd receive back pay)

Edit: I should add, that a clause 9 hearing can also result in the charge being thrown out (sounds unlikely in this case) or other sanctions such as reprimand or severe reprimand etc) not only dismissal.

Also, you need to be prepared to pay back the amount they deem your OH was liable for.

It would help if there was any evidence of the problems you'd be having, in particular if you'd made your line manager aware etc, though there is a fine line there.

 

[6Gman]

You can’t take a solicitor into a disciplinary hearing, so that is not the appropriate advice at this point. I would suggest, in the first instance, phoning your union’s regional or head office and requesting their assistance, explaining your lack of confidence in the local rep. I would hope (but not be certain) that they can put you in touch with a more senior and more experienced officer.

This. Your local rep is there for routine stuff. This is clearly not routine and it's why your union has full-time paid staff.

Get them involved as soon as possible.

 

[theironroad]

This. Your local rep is there for routine stuff. This is clearly not routine and it's why your union has full-time paid staff.

Get them involved as soon as possible.

Most clause 9 cases are dealt in house, albeit by company council rather than the full time aslef staff. I wouldn't bypass them if I wanted them on my side. Company council reps will seek and take advice from the district organiser and the full time staff.

 

[HSP 2]

I don't know who wrote the letter you received, whether from a department in your own employer or another TOC and who gets to act on it whether it is your depot manager or higher.

However, it does recommend being charged with gross misconduct (often referred to as a clause 9 on the railway).

It appears to be a recommendation but maybe it won't be acted upon, you will need some clarity from you management team on this.

However, I'd start making alternative rep arrangements.

If you're not happy with your local rep (who doesn't seem to be helping) or is out of their depth, I'd bypass them and either make contact in the first instance with your company council (dfc? Functional council? - the name seems to differ between regions). There should be more than one company council rep.

Failing that, you could contact your aslef district organiser (details in diary) for advice, but really should contact your own company council first.

Your company council may be able to mediate a solution for you without a clause 9.

While I don't want to alarm you , a clause 9 decision can lead to instant dismissal with pay stopping from that date. (The decision can be appealed and if a appeal was successful you'd receive back pay)

Edit: I should add, that a clause 9 hearing can also result in the charge being thrown out (sounds unlikely in this case) or other sanctions such as reprimand or severe reprimand etc) not only dismissal.

Also, you need to be prepared to pay back the amount they deem your OH was liable for.

It would help if there was any evidence of the problems you'd be having, in particular if you'd made your line manager aware etc, though there is a fine line there.

Putting my old union hat on, not railway. Some very good points made in the above reply.
But first a couple of questions,
1] are you a paid up member of a union? If not that would be why your rep. is not that interested. Or is he/she from a different union?
2] did you take anyone into the interview with you?
3] have you been in contact with welfare?

I'm going to go through 5 Conclusions paragraph by paragraph (P1 etc.).
P1] assuming that the ToC has got the terms & conditions correct for the use of a pass, this looks correct.
P2] the date of moving into the new house could help (but not essential).
P3] you AND your wife have avoided paying fares amounting to £8350.60 since 01/2019, in this paragraph it looks like that they are saying the two of you. (See later).
P4] I cannot say any thing to this only the OP will know this.
P5] I cannot say any thing to this only the OP will know this.
P6] in this it says that you did not travel with your wife, but you later corrected yourself. (dates 26/09/20 & 16/10/20, I can see a problem in that this is during the time frame that you say you and your wife are having "problems").
In the last sentence it states that, there is no evidence to suggest that ????? had travelled together with his wife as part of a commute. But in P3 ???? and wife have avoided £8350.60 etc (that is one that I would question as it could be saying you did not travel so the cost would be less ).
P7] this looks like no one at work knows about this. (Get in touch with welfare about this).

6 Recommendations.
The first thing would be to find out if the managers is at the correct level to suggest the recommendations as I think some may be wrong.
Disciplinary policy.
4.2.5 looks correct.
4.2.8 how can this be correct to bring into !!! into disrepute? This does not look relevant to this case.

Rules of conduct.
4.10.4 looks correct.
4.10.6 this one is a bit different in that what the manager is look at is the the part in brackets (i.e. using a duty-only pass for residential use etc). I would say not relevant.
4.10.7 looks correct.
4.10.8 looks correct.

This is your job seek the help of the area (or what your union call them) ASAP.

I was branch rep. then it was area , then it was regional after that it was the big boys at national.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

This. Your local rep is there for routine stuff. This is clearly not routine and it's why your union has full-time paid staff.

Get them involved as soon as possible.

Agreed, as a workplace rep for a (non railway) union, our training only goes so far and more complicated matters should be passed onto people higher up the chain. Pity your rep has not taken the initative to do this already.

 

[Tallguy]

Whilst the above advice is technically correct, the reality of the situation is unfortunately bleak as I suspect you are only already too aware. Once an employer determines gross negligence should be proceeded with, and especially considering the tone of that letter, I suspect this is almost certain to result in dismissal. As difficult to come to terms with as it sounds, and as unfair as you feel it may be, you are highly likely to be dismissed.

I believe a solicitor or legal professional would actually be useful at this stage to determine:

1) Should you resign (most companies will normally allow an immediate resignation in this situation) - and still be able to obtain some sort of "generic" reference going forwards;

2) Help & support, e.g. speaking to a union on your behalf. I don't know much about rail unions per se, but I do know most unions use Thompsons Law.

3) Being able to provide an honest appraisal as to if you are dismissed, whether you may have a chance to do anything about it afterwards, (e.g. employment tribunal).

4) Given the financial values being mentioned, I would be thinking that civil or criminal action in respect of that may also be taken (not just an internal disciplinary hearing). I am weary that they are using the word "defraud" and calculated the £8350.60 presumably somewhat accurately, suggesting a fair bit of investigation.

5) Depending on your partner's circumstances, you may be able to construct a civil case (i.e. sue them).

I feel that suggesting resignation when the end result of the disciplinary process may not be dismissal is counter-productive.

I am not a lawyer and have no legal training but 16 months ago went through a redundancy process which my former employers made a complete mess of and that enabled me to get a better than expected outcome.

In my mind the only way ahead is with legal advice from the union Solicitor who will have seen disciplinary processes with this employer previously. The OP needs relevant legal advice and needs it quickly in my book. I suggest the OP accelerates this up the union ladder ASAP and get the legal help that I believe they so badly need. If things do go badly a tribunal can be threatened by the Solicitor which may result in a successful appeal for reinstatement.

Good luck and please keep us informed of developments. The union is there to look after you.

 

[Haywain]

I feel that suggesting resignation when the end result of the disciplinary process may not be dismissal is counter-productive.

I agree with this, I can see no way that resignation would be beneficial to the OP.

If things do go badly a tribunal can be threatened by the Solicitor which may result in a successful appeal for reinstatement.

If this ultimately went to a tribunal the OP would possibly end up receiving compensation but would be highly unlikely to be reinstated even if that was the outcome of the tribunal - I believe that most employers would settle the case rather then have a result go against them, and would certainly not want to be in a position of re-employing someone who they had dismissed. But this is getting somewhat ahead of things just now.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Nobody has suggested actually resigning - let alone me. It is a band of possible options that should (and ordinarily would) be discussed in the course of a conversation with a legal professional.

As it stands, and only based on what the poster has advised, if they were having a legally protected conversation with me, I would be making clear that this is likely to end in dismissal unless there is some extraordinary and compelling reason why that should not happen, which has not yet been mentioned here.

 

[357]

So, in my experiences every investigation recommends gross misconduct, and every investigation makes things sound very bad. In my experience, this doesn't mean dismissal and I have even been charged with gross misconduct myself, in an investigation that was made to look just as bad. TOCs can vary but you need to make a good defence and be confident in your innocence. I was not dismissed, all charges were dropped (because they were fabricated by a manager with a personal vendetta against me).

The following are my personal thoughts of what your defence should include;

Conclusions:
Para 3. If Paragraph 1 says your wife's name at the beginning, I would seek clarification on the companies position regarding your liability - it says you and your wife avoided paying the money.
Para 4 and Para 5. Seek written clarification regarding what responsibility you are supposed to maintain over long periods of time, especially in a problematic marriage. Ask where the company put the line between "taking responsibility" and "over-controlling husband". Ask if the company would support an employee if their spouse made a police complaint regarding "checking up" on journey history.
Para 6. They are talking about a period of two years, and you travelled with your wife twice. Clarify that this was an honest mistake - and that you corrected your statement when you remembered the trips. Stress that this was not on a commute, as stated by themselves, but leisure travel and totally within the terms and conditions of the spouse pass.
Para 7. If you do have any evidence of this, then ensure you show them. I know it can be personal, but even screenshots of call logs or text messages showing type of communications (lack of love hearts etc) and the time between contact could help. Ask them what evidence they would suggest of this.

Recommendations
Without seeing your disciplinary policy I can't help too much, you will need to check this yourself. Check ALL clauses to ensure they say what is being said in the investigation.
If your TOC does not have this accessible to you, you need to request a copy ASAP (and stress that you are being held to account for a policy the company do not show you).
4.2.5 This sounds like an operational incident clause? Check the wording if you can.
4.2.8 Seek clarification of how exactly your wife's actions have meant you brought the company into disrepute. In my experience this is a clause that gets tagged on to almost all investigations.
4.10.4 Stress that you did what you thought was reasonable and proportionate to comply with this, however again stress the issue regarding "controlling husband".
4.10.6 Ask if they have any evidence that your wife has committed any antisocial behaviour as mentioned, and ask how a ticketing irregularity can bring your TOC into disrepute.
4.10.7 This is a very poorly worded extract. The way this sounds, everyone who gives a PRIV or free pass to their family members is in breach of the policy. Your wife got passes that she is perfectly entitled to receive. Stress you never permitted her to travel for free to or from work, and you have not colluded with any other employee.
4.10.8 Ask if there is any allegation that you used your own passes fraudulently, then tell them that this clause is irrelevant - there has been no accusation against you and the company can not change words or meanings to suit themselves. The words in this extract are in black and white and say nothing about checking up on others.

Lastly, I strongly recommend you offer to pay the money back to the company via a payment plan. You might never get a penny from your wife, but it could save your career.

 

[philthetube]

From experience, most people who go up to a disciplinary board, for gross misconduct keep their jobs, I have been surprised in many cases when people have survived with a 2 year final or similar, defiantly don't resign, take the wages for the next 6 months or whatever and then decide.

Good luck but your chances are not that bad.

Can you tell us which union you are a member of.

 

[WesternLancer]

So, in my experiences every investigation recommends gross misconduct, and every investigation makes things sound very bad. In my experience, this doesn't mean dismissal and I have even been charged with gross misconduct myself, in an investigation that was made to look just as bad. TOCs can vary but you need to make a good defence and be confident in your innocence. I was not dismissed, all charges were dropped (because they were fabricated by a manager with a personal vendetta against me).

The following are my personal thoughts of what your defence should include;

Conclusions:
Para 3. If Paragraph 1 says your wife's name at the beginning, I would seek clarification on the companies position regarding your liability - it says you and your wife avoided paying the money.
Para 4 and Para 5. Seek written clarification regarding what responsibility you are supposed to maintain over long periods of time, especially in a problematic marriage. Ask where the company put the line between "taking responsibility" and "over-controlling husband". Ask if the company would support an employee if their spouse made a police complaint regarding "checking up" on journey history.
Para 6. They are talking about a period of two years, and you travelled with your wife twice. Clarify that this was an honest mistake - and that you corrected your statement when you remembered the trips. Stress that this was not on a commute, as stated by themselves, but leisure travel and totally within the terms and conditions of the spouse pass.
Para 7. If you do have any evidence of this, then ensure you show them. I know it can be personal, but even screenshots of call logs or text messages showing type of communications (lack of love hearts etc) and the time between contact could help. Ask them what evidence they would suggest of this.

Recommendations
Without seeing your disciplinary policy I can't help too much, you will need to check this yourself. Check ALL clauses to ensure they say what is being said in the investigation.
If your TOC does not have this accessible to you, you need to request a copy ASAP (and stress that you are being held to account for a policy the company do not show you).
4.2.5 This sounds like an operational incident clause? Check the wording if you can.
4.2.8 Seek clarification of how exactly your wife's actions have meant you brought the company into disrepute. In my experience this is a clause that gets tagged on to almost all investigations.
4.10.4 Stress that you did what you thought was reasonable and proportionate to comply with this, however again stress the issue regarding "controlling husband".
4.10.6 Ask if they have any evidence that your wife has committed any antisocial behaviour as mentioned, and ask how a ticketing irregularity can bring your TOC into disrepute.
4.10.7 This is a very poorly worded extract. The way this sounds, everyone who gives a PRIV or free pass to their family members is in breach of the policy. Your wife got passes that she is perfectly entitled to receive. Stress you never permitted her to travel for free to or from work, and you have not colluded with any other employee.
4.10.8 Ask if there is any allegation that you used your own passes fraudulently, then tell them that this clause is irrelevant - there has been no accusation against you and the company can not change words or meanings to suit themselves. The words in this extract are in black and white and say nothing about checking up on others.

Lastly, I strongly recommend you offer to pay the money back to the company via a payment plan. You might never get a penny from your wife, but it could save your career.

A very helpful post if I may say so. Hope the OP can make use of this.

 

[najaB]

A very helpful post if I may say so. Hope the OP can make use of this.

More than anything, get competent advice.

I found myself in a similar situation (not in the railway industry) and tried to deal with things myself. Huge mistake as I got dismissed despite nearly eleven year's unblemished service. The amount involved was less than one month's gross salary.

Later I found out that there were several grounds that a union rep could have fought my case on and I likely would have received a written/final written warning at worst.

It panned out in the end, as my current job is much more rewarding than the previous one.

 

[MotCO]

One thing that struck me when reading the redacted papers posted by the OP was that, although there were marital problems, they both went together twice by train to purchase a car. The TOC may argue that the marital problems did not appear to be that bad based on this. The OP may need to think about a response to any questions about this at any hearing.

 

[357]

One thing that struck me when reading the redacted papers posted by the OP was that, although there were marital problems, they both went together twice by train to purchase a car. The TOC may argue that the marital problems did not appear to be that bad based on this. The OP may need to think about a response to any questions about this at any hearing.

I picked up on this too, however it's not unusual to think things are getting better and do something like this.

I've made the same mistake myself in the past.

More than anything, get competent advice.

I found myself in a similar situation (not in the railway industry) and tried to deal with things myself. Huge mistake as I got dismissed despite nearly eleven year's unblemished service. The amount involved was less than one month's gross salary.

Later I found out that there were several grounds that a union rep could have fought my case on and I likely would have received a written/final written warning at worst.

It panned out in the end, as my current job is much more rewarding than the previous one.

It's a shame that some reps are better than others - many seem to be in it just so they get days off (that are supposed to be for union duties).

I'll take this opportunity to again stress to the OP that while there are many current and former union reps giving advice here - this is simply advice and personal thoughts and comes with no guarantee.

 

[philthetube]

One thing that struck me when reading the redacted papers posted by the OP was that, although there were marital problems, they both went together twice by train to purchase a car. The TOC may argue that the marital problems did not appear to be that bad based on this. The OP may need to think about a response to any questions about this at any hearing.

I noticed this as well, the problem with it is that the op has stated that he hardly speaks to his wife, and then goes out shopping for a car together, is this going to be believed, and if not this also throws other statements into doubt.

 

[SteveM70]

I noticed this as well, the problem with it is that the op has stated that he hardly speaks to his wife, and then goes out shopping for a car together, is this going to be believed, and if not this also throws other statements into doubt.

The alternate view is they were a one car family, splitting up means they’d need a second, and the OP went with her because he saw it as a way of hastening the split

You can create circumstances that fit the known facts for both sides of the argument, and that’s what the OP needs to recognise and explain

 

[Hanson]

Thank for all your advice guys.

to be honest where ever have turned to hasn’t helped on this case.

my union hq were only advicing resigning is my option to take but they all not sounding convincing trying to fight this will yield results

they not sounding like building up a good defence for me but only seeing the charges I am facing with no one considering my circumstances and with that try to help me build a defence case.

which is why I really can’t decide on what step to take because there no one sounding like they can fight this for me within the union even though yes! This happened but my circumstances were way above me which has led to this

The alternate view is they were a one car family, splitting up means they’d need a second, and the OP went with her because he saw it as a way of hastening the split

You can create circumstances that fit the known facts for both sides of the argument, and that’s what the OP needs to recognise and explain

This was actually the case!

I bought the car she was using, she got me restricted using my car so she decide to get a car of her own before I can take mine but couldn’t drive the long distance journey so I help to go with her so I can collect my own car back and I can use it to commute to work... we only met up along the way to the destination as well we didn’t start or end a train journey together

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank for all your advice guys.

to be honest where ever have turned to hasn’t helped on this case.

my union hq were only advicing resigning is my option to take but they all not sounding convincing trying to fight this will yield results

they not sounding like building up a good defence for me but only seeing the charges I am facing with no one considering my circumstances and with that try to help me build a defence case.

which is why I really can’t decide on what step to take because there no one sounding like they can fight this for me within the union even though yes! This happened but my circumstances were way above me which has led to this

Sorry to hear this - so maybe try to ring a few solicitors? See prev link I posted on how to get quotes from them. But reps on here seem to think you have at least a chance....I would not resign in haste at this point.

 

[Hanson]

Sorry to hear this - so maybe try to ring a few solicitors? See prev link I posted on how to get quotes from them. But reps on here seem to think you have at least a chance....I would not resign in haste at this point.

Thanks for the link

I have tried to ring as much as I can
But none of them can see me before Monday which is the displianary hearing
Only got till tomorrow to decide on what to do