You should withdraw it! Dismissal was only one possible outcome, and even if you were dismissed you would have had the appeal process to get try and get it reviewed.
I know I'm only one example but, even if the worst did happen, being dismissed doesn't mean that you'll never work again. I was dismissed for gross misconduct with the appeal process concluded by the first week of January and was in a new, better, job by the first week of that March. (And had to turn down another job offer!)
With all due to respect - there are other, possibly better, union reps out there!
There are other and better union reps. You had plenty of choice and you now say you are shattered and depressed.As I couldn’t provide strong evidence he was requesting for like what action did I take to stop the misuse and so on the rep just made me feel it not worth fighting for
I think a lot of genuine people have invested time and effort to try to assist you, so naturally we are disappointed that you feel you had no other option than to resign. However, it may well be that you felt that was your only option and we have to recognise that. Jobseekers Allowance (or whatever the current name for it is) isn’t usually granted for people who have resigned but I would urge you to make a claim as soon as possible - today if possible - as your national insurance contributions should be covered from the moment you make a claim. Otherwise, treat job seeking like a full time occupation now. Wishing you the best.
Evidence may have helped you "get off" with it, but even with no evidence and found to have committed gross misconduct that wouldn't have been simply a dismissal, again it would all have went down to your relationship with manager etc there would have been a fair chance of a sanction short of dismissal if you are normally a decent hard working employee who has made an isolated mistake.
I am unsure if the OP is a driver, but the law of the land over rules any contract. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a gardening leave clause in the contract or PILON. You are indeed correct that disciplinary proceedings can still be applied during a notice period so the OP could still face dismissal having resigned - that happened to a non rail industry colleague of mine who had resigned and was then sacked part way through his notice period. Let’s hope it isn’t applied if the resignation isn’t summary or hope the notice is dealt with under PILON.I'm not sure if they have resigned with immediate effect or just tendered notice to resign.
If it's the latter,then some TOCs have. 3 month notice period for drivers, so in normal circumstances they'd be expected to work that.
However, I assume the gross misconduct process could proceed anyway within the resignation period if they are not sick, so maybe they have resigned with immediate effect although not sure how that would play out in a reference.
Fair to say, it's all a mess.
Hanson, you said in a previous post “I have had to put my resignation in this morning, my rep keeps saying it’s the only way to get a clean record as he doesn’t see any other come from this other than a dismissal” and you are now telling us you asked the rep who hasn’t supported you to go to your manager and ask if he/she would accept your resignation And that the hearing is now going ahead tomorrow???I feel bad and I think it’s really worth the fight!
Guy you might misinterpret what I meant I only just asked for my union rep to ask if the manager would accept my resignation and he came back and said yes.
I have now told them I will go ahead with the hearing tomorrow
I have been on the phone with my rep all this while and he’s just been unsupportive and only asking the I provide proof that I have done all I could to stop this misuse which he knows I haven’t got, what proof could I provide when I was in a bad state in a Rocky marriage and infact I had to since to have detected any misuse was made on the pass
Well, I'm pleased to hear this - if you can't get a different Rep I'd be tempted to ask the Rep to accompany you - and take note of what happens and advise you on any key points of failed procedure - but to allow you to conduct your own defence based on the good advice of what to say and how to do this on this thread posted by people like @357 and others.I feel bad and I think it’s really worth the fight!
Guy you might misinterpret what I meant I only just asked for my union rep to ask if the manager would accept my resignation and he came back and said yes.
I have now told them I will go ahead with the hearing tomorrow
I have been on the phone with my rep all this while and he’s just been unsupportive and only asking the I provide proof that I have done all I could to stop this misuse which he knows I haven’t got, what proof could I provide when I was in a bad state in a Rocky marriage and infact I had to since to have detected any misuse was made on the pass
The rep asked me to put it in an email so he can ask the manager if my resignation would be accepted, the rep is keen that I resign with given much support to defend meHanson, you said in a previous post “I have had to put my resignation in this morning, my rep keeps saying it’s the only way to get a clean record as he doesn’t see any other come from this other than a dismissal” and you are now telling us you asked the rep who hasn’t supported you to go to your manager and ask if he/she would accept your resignation And that the hearing is now going ahead tomorrow???
So now your manager knows you intend to resign but you are going to fight the hearing?
Forum members have bent over backwards to help and offer support. You are now posting mixed messages. If you intend to resign then why are you bothering fighting the hearing?
Something here isn’t adding up. An employer can’t refuse your resignation Under almost all circumstances.
That is totally different to what you posted previously.The rep asked me to put it in an email so he can ask the manager if my resignation would be accepted, the rep is keen that I resign with given much support to defend me
He has now returned saying the manager agrees to accept resignation but I will have to put it in a formal writing if I don’t want the hearing to go on which are within my rights ... this is why I have decided to keep up with the fight till the end
That is totally different to what you posted previously.
You say the rep is keen that you resign. Why did you e mail the union rep and ask them To ask your manager if they would accept your resignation? Your resignation is nothing to do with the union, apart from the fact they kept telling you to quit.
Something here doesn’t add up. If your manager now knows you intend to resign then they have an upper hand at the ’hearing tomorrow’.
I am unsure if the OP is a driver, but the law of the land over rules any contract. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a gardening leave clause in the contract or PILON. You are indeed correct that disciplinary proceedings can still be applied during a notice period so the OP could still face dismissal having resigned - that happened to a non rail industry colleague of mine who had resigned and was then sacked part way through his notice period. Let’s hope it isn’t applied if the resignation isn’t summary or hope the notice is dealt with under PILON.
I have to say it would be unfortunate if the OP had to now fight a hearing for GM having replied but it is entirely possible.
Under the circumstances asking for PILON if not under summary termination may be the best bet. At least the OP will be clear to go and get something else immediately. If the OP has to work the notice period and they feel mentally unable to, then they may wish to seek medical help from their GP or other healthcare professional.
I'm confused. You speak to me on the phone and you want to fight, then you speak to your rep and tell me you want to resign.
I was up until 1am writing a defence and final statement for your hearing - and now you have resigned?
Along with the evidence you sent me - I thought you had at least a 50% chance of keeping your job.
Hanson stated they had resigned.I sense that Hanson was just testing the water with regards to resignation. You may be asked why you thought about resigning - you need to say that this was based on the advice from your union rep.
I haven’t, after my conversation with the rep over the phone, he’s then told me decide what you want to do but I suggest you resign because it’s an uphill battle, in his own words. He said I chose resign or still go for hearingHanson stated they had resigned.
This was sent to my rep... as the support I’m getting from him is not encouraging.I haven’t, after my conversation with the rep over the phone, he’s then told me decide what you want to do but I suggest you resign because it’s an uphill battle, in his own words. He said I chose resign or still go for hearing
then if I do decide to resign he will check with the manager of she would accept it
hence this mail I sent, the rep is really making decisions hard for me and along his line strongly doesn’t want to have the hearing to continue
Regardless of what people on a web forum think, (and noting that they fully encouraged you to follow your union advice, until that advice was at odds with their own opinion), going through a gross misconduct disciplinary leaves permanent scars, and it is rarely a happy career afterwards, unless you are totally vindicated.
I am quite sure you will be able to rely on your previous employer for a generic, neutral reference which will be very helpful going forward.
That is totally different to what you posted previously.
You say the rep is keen that you resign. Why did you e mail the union rep and ask them To ask your manager if they would accept your resignation? Your resignation is nothing to do with the union, apart from the fact they kept telling you to quit.
Something here doesn’t add up. If your manager now knows you intend to resign then they have an upper hand at the ’hearing tomorrow’.
Was the phonecall more believeable/genuine than the posts they have made on here, particularly the most recent ones? Because I surely can't be the only one that has their spidey sense tingling about it all.
And I would strongly advise against this. Take a rep, and let the rep do their job. Even though it is clear that the rep doesn't think there is much in the way of defence or mitigation, they have had training in this which the OP hasn't.I'd be tempted to ask the Rep to accompany you - and take note of what happens and advise you on any key points of failed procedure - but to allow you to conduct your own defence based on the good advice of what to say and how to do this on this thread.
I can't recall the post as the thread is now long and I'm not going back through it to double check - but I think the OP did contact the Union at another level but didn't get very far - but given MikeWh's important post I'm not sure much point getting in to that at this stage now.Fully agree with all of this.
However, it’s the OP’s decision to make.
They seem bizarrely reluctant to go to a higher level within the Union for more advice, and I would point out that “useless,” union reps usually get voted out, assuming they make it that far to begin with.
Resignation is certainly the safer option, whatever you think morally etc. I trust all the people urging the OP to fight will be there to offer some support when they are barred from working within the industry?
The rail industry is constantly recruiting, maybe not in the position you have now (whatever that even is) But as someone with experience and a theoretically clean record the door isn’t closed.
I wish you (op) the best of luck and hope this is resolved promptly so you can start to move on. Remember when you look back in a year or so it certainly won’t seem as bad as it does at the moment.
The cynic in me thinks that both your manager and Union Rep are happy for you to resign as it gets rid of an awkward situation for them .I haven’t, after my conversation with the rep over the phone, he’s then told me decide what you want to do but I suggest you resign because it’s an uphill battle, in his own words. He said I chose resign or still go for hearing
then if I do decide to resign he will check with the manager of she would accept it
hence this mail I sent, the rep is really making decisions hard for me and along his line strongly doesn’t want to have the hearing to continue
This was sent to my rep... as the support I’m getting from him is not encouraging.
he then got back and said yes, manager is willing to accept my resignation if I do decide to and not want to continue with the hearing but need to send a formal letter directly to her instead
I have never heard of anyone being barred from working 'within the industry'. In fact I am aware of cases of people who have been dismissed from roles in the rail industry and have found employment elsewhere in the industry, and externally. That doesn't mean it will be easy, but it isn't impossible.I trust all the people urging the OP to fight will be there to offer some support when they are barred from working within the industry?
at 13.11 today Hanson you posted “I have had to put my resignation in this morning” that to me is resigning.I haven’t,