Mobile ticket retailer without purchase history?

[Doctor Fegg]

It's well established in the Disputes & Prosecutions board that ticket retailers such as Trainline will routinely disclose a customer's purchase history when requested by the "rail industry" (TOCs, companies like TIL, etc. etc.).

I'm sure I'm not alone in being uneasy about this. I don't particularly like Google and Facebook tracking everything I do around the web. By the same token, I don't really want anyone to have access to a list of where I've been, when. The issue is more one of data retention than disclosure - whether or not the retailer has good intentions, you're only ever one misconfigured server away from a data breach, and then the data is there for everyone to see.

Are there any mobile ticket retailers, ideally with an easy-to-use app, that commit to not retaining this information?

 

[Watershed]

It's well established in the Disputes & Prosecutions board that ticket retailers such as Trainline will routinely disclose a customer's purchase history when requested by the "rail industry" (TOCs, companies like TIL, etc. etc.).

I'm sure I'm not alone in being uneasy about this. I don't particularly like Google and Facebook tracking everything I do around the web. By the same token, I don't really want anyone to have access to a list of where I've been, when. The issue is more one of data retention than disclosure - whether or not the retailer has good intentions, you're only ever one misconfigured server away from a data breach, and then the data is there for everyone to see.

Are there any mobile ticket retailers, ideally with an easy-to-use app, that commit to not retaining this information?

I'm not aware of any such retailers. And it's difficult to see how retailers couldn't retain at least some information, given the possibility of claims down the line for refunds, changes to tickets or even misselling claims which could come up to 6 years in the future.

Unfortunately, the only option if you don't want to leave much of a trace is to use a retailer that allows you to buy tickets as a guest, and then always use different email addresses, names and payment cards. Or buy your ticket at a ticket office or machine.

 

[Haywain]

Or buy your ticket at a ticket office or machine.

Using cash if you don't want to leave a trail.

 

[island]

Ultimately, if you want to leave little or no trail, you would be best advised to buy from a station and pay cash.

 

[zero]

Use disposable email addresses and disposable / virtual cards (for example, as offered by Revolut for free). If you use a phone app it is probably possible to track you that way despite making a new accounts or checking out as a guest. Thus, it may also be wise to change your browser fingerprint and/or use public wifi / VPNs (sometimes problematic if they appear to be from a non-UK location). You could of course try to run mobile apps in a virtual machine where you can configure the parameters to avoid being tracked.

 

[Haywain]

And don't bother with refunds or delay repay.

 

[Cdd89]

And don't bother with refunds or delay repay.

Why not? If paying by cash at the station, claiming it doesn’t link your identity to the other tickets purchased.

 

[Haywain]

Why not? If paying by cash at the station, claiming it doesn’t link your identity to the other tickets purchased.

Because it creates a digital footprint and record of travel/purchase.

 

[Cdd89]

Because it creates a digital footprint and record of travel/purchase.

Only in respect of that one purchase. The OP’s concern was about all their purchases being linked, not being voluntarily identified in respect of specific journeys (possibly after the need for privacy has long passed).

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Cheers all.

I'm not so paranoid as to be fussed with changing cards, email addresses, phone UUIDs and the like. My concern is to minimise tracking, rather than to go to extreme lengths to eliminate it entirely.

Right now I usually buy from a ticket office or machine. In theory the purchase history could be reconstituted by tracing card payments, but the likelihood of that data leaking as-is is significantly less (because card issuers are, rightly, pretty rigorous about data policies around card data), and in some cases may not be possible at all (depending on the merchant setup). Unfortunately, ticket offices are a vanishing breed, while machines don't sell all tickets and (locally at least) often have long queues.

It probably shouldn't need saying, but I'm not concerned with this for reasons of fare evasion: it's more about not wanting my movement patterns to be tracked. Say I'm in negotiations to sell to a company based in Froggleton, and so my purchase history keeps showing journeys to Froggleton: that's information I wouldn't want to be findable. That said, I would add that we've seen time and again that TOCs and their agents are entirely capable of misunderstanding the restrictions they apply to their own tickets. If I find a good value ticket, and someone at a TOC decides they don't like me using it, I don't really want to get into the situation where I have to fight against "oh, we can see you've used this 100 times in the last year, we're going to take you to the cleaners".

I suspect the best answer, for now, is to assess the retailers and their privacy policies, and choose the least invasive. From a quick survey it looks (unsurprisingly!) like Raileasy/Trainsplit is probably the best; their Privacy Policy, encouragingly, says "At any time, you can ask us to remove or anonymise (as appropriate) any personal identifying information that we hold within our systems", though I suspect they might get a bit exasperated if I were to send them an email every month asking for that

 

[Feuillesmortes]

If I find a good value ticket, and someone at a TOC decides they don't like me using it, I don't really want to get into the situation where I have to fight against "oh, we can see you've used this 100 times in the last year, we're going to take you to the cleaners".

Like this thread where the passenger may or may not have been off route, depending on whether an itinerary had been generated for a particular time of day.

Penalty Fare Issued - But I Have a Valid Ticket

Hi all, I was traveling on an east midlands train yesterday and was issued a penalty fare for "traveling beyond my validity". I am fairly certain that my ticket was in fact valid. It's not even a particularly silly-looking route or anything and from what I can tell the routing guide seems to...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[jon81uk]

Cheers all.

I'm not so paranoid as to be fussed with changing cards, email addresses, phone UUIDs and the like. My concern is to minimise tracking, rather than to go to extreme lengths to eliminate it entirely.

Right now I usually buy from a ticket office or machine. In theory the purchase history could be reconstituted by tracing card payments, but the likelihood of that data leaking as-is is significantly less (because card issuers are, rightly, pretty rigorous about data policies around card data), and in some cases may not be possible at all (depending on the merchant setup). Unfortunately, ticket offices are a vanishing breed, while machines don't sell all tickets and (locally at least) often have long queues.

It probably shouldn't need saying, but I'm not concerned with this for reasons of fare evasion: it's more about not wanting my movement patterns to be tracked. Say I'm in negotiations to sell to a company based in Froggleton, and so my purchase history keeps showing journeys to Froggleton: that's information I wouldn't want to be findable. That said, I would add that we've seen time and again that TOCs and their agents are entirely capable of misunderstanding the restrictions they apply to their own tickets. If I find a good value ticket, and someone at a TOC decides they don't like me using it, I don't really want to get into the situation where I have to fight against "oh, we can see you've used this 100 times in the last year, we're going to take you to the cleaners".

I suspect the best answer, for now, is to assess the retailers and their privacy policies, and choose the least invasive. From a quick survey it looks (unsurprisingly!) like Raileasy/Trainsplit is probably the best; their Privacy Policy, encouragingly, says "At any time, you can ask us to remove or anonymise (as appropriate) any personal identifying information that we hold within our systems", though I suspect they might get a bit exasperated if I were to send them an email every month asking for that

If you are in negotiations to sell a company, on what basis would any party involved in that transaction have access to the data from a train ticket retailer?

 

[Paul Kelly]

If you are in negotiations to sell a company, on what basis would any party involved in that transaction have access to the data from a train ticket retailer?

If I understood correctly, the point was that you might not want other parties NOT involved in the transaction to find out? E.g. some of your current customers, who might not be looking forward to the idea of you selling the company due to the uncertainty it would cause. And what if one of those customers was a ticket retailer themselves and was unscrupulously accessing the data for purposes not within their privacy policy?

 

[Birmingham]

I suspect the best answer, for now, is to assess the retailers and their privacy policies, and choose the least invasive.

I wouldn’t bother. You’re much better off just continuing to buy at the station.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I wouldn’t bother. You’re much better off just continuing to buy at the station.

While you can

 

[Birmingham]

While you can

What do you mean?

 

[bakerstreet]

While you can

When does buy at station come to an end? Is there a plan? Is there a date?

 

[Haywain]

When does buy at station come to an end? Is there a plan? Is there a date?

When? Who knows. But it's well known that the government wants to see all ticket offices closed.

 

[bakerstreet]

When? Who knows. But it's well known that the government wants to see all ticket offices closed.

Ticket offices yes but ticket machines too?

 

[alistairlees]

Ticket offices yes but ticket machines too?

No. Ticket machines, and staff with hand held devices at some stations, will remain.

 

[Haywain]

Ticket offices yes but ticket machines too?

Who knows?

 

[Birmingham]

That it will no longer be possible to buy tickets at stations is quite a big assertion to make to not provide any explanation.

 

[Trainbike46]

Who knows?

It seems a bit premature to speculate about the withdrawal of TVMs, unless there are any actual plans to do that. Specifically because it doesn't seem wise to withdraw both TVMs and Ticket Offices at the same time...

It also doesn't look like a benefit to the industry to refuse to sell tickets when starting a journey, and as far as I'm aware no other country has done that, while there are many examples of countries removing ticket offices