Modern M.U. stock conversion to LHCS

[ic31420]

So with the impending end of the 365s it got me thinking there is a lot of quite decent modern MU stock reaching the end of the road.

Now obviously the charter market is quite well served with MK2 MK3 and MK4 (should they want it) also available and still quite modern and serviceable.

But this being speculative section which modern MU stock could be converted best /easily to LHCS stock for charter use etc.

What do we think the charter operators will be using in 20, 30 or 40yrs time?

Do we think WCRC etc l will be using MUs in their MU format? Can't see a kettle hauling a 390.

 

[JonathanH]

There was a fairly recent thread on charter stock.

New build rolling stock for charters - is it feasible? What would it look like?

I'm spinning this off from the thoughts about steam thread, where it was suggested Mark 1 lookalikes could be built for charter use. Given that there are quite a few charter vehicles knocking about, and that the Mark 1 isn't going to last forever, I did wonder if it would be possible to draw up...

www.railforums.co.uk

Mark 1s and Mark 2f stock can get to more parts of the network than more recent designs.

The problem with using converted multiple units is the cost of converting it and the lack of compatability with the locomotives that enthusiasts want to travel behind.

Mark 1 carriages are well understood and can be rebuilt. However, there comes a point where they can't be used. I suspect the outcome will be an end to charter operations given the very limited margins they operate on.

I think that prospective travellers baulk at the idea of travelling in converted units because of poor window alignment etc. I'm not sure any specific units would make a good new era charter stock.

Let's suppose that 365s were deemed suitable. A rake of 3 units would give 12 coaches. Fit the end units with buffers. Install some sort of parking brake and some sort of mechanism to convert the braking. A generator would need to be fitted to provide electric train supply. More first class seats, a buffet counter. The costs soon mount up and there would be issues that can't be overcome.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fitting hopper windows to Mk3s would keep them going for a while.

 

[JonathanH]

Fitting hopper windows to Mk3s would keep them going for a while.

With the best will in the world no one is going to be converting Mk3s to have vacuum brakes.

There is no justification for opening windows on the modern railway - if people need to hear the engine, the sound can come through the public address system, or perhaps, at a push, some sort of mesh fitted vent.

 

[A0wen]

So with the impending end of the 365s it got me thinking there is a lot of quite decent modern MU stock reaching the end of the road.

Now obviously the charter market is quite well served with MK2 MK3 and MK4 (should they want it) also available and still quite modern and serviceable.

But this being speculative section which modern MU stock could be converted best /easily to LHCS stock for charter use etc.

What do we think the charter operators will be using in 20, 30 or 40yrs time?

Do we think WCRC etc l will be using MUs in their MU format? Can't see a kettle hauling a 390.

BIB - I'm not sure that statement is really true.

The Mk3 EMUs (317, 321, 455) are all over 30 years old now. The remaining PEP units are over 40 years old.

Even the 365s are over 25 years old now - and that's a relatively small class built for a specific purpose which makes re-deploying them elsewhere more difficult.

There will doubtless be a point where steam and even first gen diesel or electric operation on the mainline gets called to a halt. I suspect we're unlikely to ever see the likes of Stirling No1 or City of Truro allowed out on the mainline network again - yet both were in the 1980s. Give it 20 years and I can see a similar halt on steam on the mainline and first gen diesels.

The charter operators will re-invent themselves no doubt - but not sure using what.

 

[hexagon789]

With the best will in the world no one is going to be converting Mk3s to have vacuum brakes.

Also nigh on impossible to have WSP with vacuum brakes, which is a necessity for disc brakes vehicles. Surely it would be more likely fitting locos with dual air brakes as has been done multiple times than any chance if fitting Mk3s with vacuum brakes?

 

[HSTEd]

The charter operators will re-invent themselves no doubt - but not sure using what.

Well they "do a Tornado" and build replica locomotives filled with the necessary safety equipment.

 

[Journeyman]

As others have said, I've a feeling that when Mark 1 and 2 rolling stock hits life expiry and can no longer meet the required standards, traditional loco hauled steam and diesel charters will die out.

That said, there's presumably a few years left in old rolling stock for now, as SRPS Railtours are extensively refurbishing their mainline Mark 1 coaches with new retention toilets among other things. But yeah - safety regulations move on, and much vintage rolling stock that could be operated in the 80s and even 90s is now banned for safety reasons. Network Rail also want consistent, reliable performance on busy routes and won't take kindly to 60/70 year old locos and coaches racking up delay minutes if they fail.

I think the Midland Pullman HST set is a reasonable indication of where the charter market is going. It meets modern safety standards, can go pretty much anywhere, and is fast enough to path very easily on all the UK's major routes without getting in the way of anything else.