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Modern Railways GA piece this month

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dk1

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Will probably depend on whether other operators have cancelled paths that would normally run and as such would normally be in the way. Additionally it will depend on whether operators want to provide such a service, requires units and crew, cost vs revenue.

Here at GA we operate relief trains as a matter of course on the Norwich-Cambridge route whether it be through engineering works on the main line or simply due to football. Has been something we have done for the last 10 years or more.
 
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Here at GA we operate relief trains as a matter of course on the Norwich-Cambridge route whether it be through engineering works on the main line or simply due to football. Has been something we have done for the last 10 years or more.
But thats a different thing to putting it in the LTP timetable, which by the way I think is needed. Queen Adelaide Crossing doesn't help though as @Bald Rick as previously told us.
 

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Here at GA we operate relief trains as a matter of course on the Norwich-Cambridge route whether it be through engineering works on the main line or simply due to football. Has been something we have done for the last 10 years or more.
How was there even enough stock in the Sprinter and 170 days? Unless Anglia always being shut for engineering one weekend or another freed stock from other routes to allow it to operate relief to Cambridge.
 

dk1

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How was there even enough stock in the Sprinter and 170 days? Unless Anglia always being shut for engineering one weekend or another freed stock from other routes to allow it to operate relief to Cambridge.

Anglia was always living hand to mouth as was NXEA. The 170s were gradually pulled off the through Liverpool St workings to enhance the regional routes. Overcrowding and time loss was commonplace and accepted when a pesky 153 turned up.
 

306024

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Anglia was always living hand to mouth as was NXEA. The 170s were gradually pulled off the through Liverpool St workings to enhance the regional routes. Overcrowding and time loss was commonplace and accepted when a pesky 153 turned up.
Or looking at it from the London end of the patch the 170s were removed from the through workings as some trains were hopelessly overcrowded, necessitating a few relief trains to run in addition. This was the real driving force behind withdrawing the through service and replacing it with EMUs that could be 4 / 8 /12 cars as demand dictated. The fact it freed up 3 car 170s for Norwich - Cambridge which then allowed the 2 car 170s onto Ipswich - Cambridge was an added bonus. Passenger loadings on Ipswich - Cambridge improved so much that the 3 car 170s were later swapped from the Peterborough service.

Hiding the 153s on the least worst trains for overcrowding was difficult, especially once there was any disruption.
 

dk1

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Or looking at it from the London end of the patch the 170s were removed from the through workings as some trains were hopelessly overcrowded, necessitating a few relief trains to run in addition. This was the real driving force behind withdrawing the through service and replacing it with EMUs that could be 4 / 8 /12 cars as demand dictated. The fact it freed up 3 car 170s for Norwich - Cambridge which then allowed the 2 car 170s onto Ipswich - Cambridge was an added bonus. Passenger loadings on Ipswich - Cambridge improved so much that the 3 car 170s were later swapped from the Peterborough service.

Hiding the 153s on the least worst trains for overcrowding was difficult, especially once there was any disruption.

Yes and every time any major events took place in London 170 diagrams were modified to pine the Lowestoft/Peterborough services at Ipswich with 321s forward. This never went down well with through passengers but hey ho, you cannot please everyone. Around the same time 3-car 170s also replaced 2-cars on the now well established Norwich-Cambridge route.
 

Adrian1980uk

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Yes and every time any major events took place in London 170 diagrams were modified to pine the Lowestoft/Peterborough services at Ipswich with 321s forward. This never went down well with through passengers but hey ho, you cannot please everyone. Around the same time 3-car 170s also replaced 2-cars on the now well established Norwich-Cambridge route.
I feel the Cambridge/ Stansted airport run will be an issue in the coming years as it's only going to become more popular but capacity cannot be increased as the trains are at max length they can be and frequency cannot be increased with Ely maxed out.
 

dk1

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I feel the Cambridge/ Stansted airport run will be an issue in the coming years as it's only going to become more popular but capacity cannot be increased as the trains are at max length they can be and frequency cannot be increased with Ely maxed out.

Been some serious crowding on the Norwich services south of Cambridge this summer due to many XC services still terminating & not running through to the airport. That however should be rectified next June when they resume running through again.

The practice of running 755/3s on this route really needs to cease but know that’s not always possible.
 

JonathanH

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The practice of running 755/3s on this route really needs to cease but know that’s not always possible.
Why do 755/3s run on the Norwich to Stansted service at all? Is it just a case of balancing mileage across the fleet or some stabling or platform issue? Alternatively, did the planners simply identify one diagram with a lower loading factor?

Apart from Sudbury, there doesn't seem to be an obvious use case for the 3-car units versus 4-car units.
 

Adrian1980uk

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Been some serious crowding on the Norwich services south of Cambridge this summer due to many XC services still terminating & not running through to the airport. That however should be rectified next June when they resume running through again.

The practice of running 755/3s on this route really needs to cease but know that’s not always possible.
The risk is the 755/3s become the 153s of the stadler fleet if used on the wrong diagrams as passengers build up again
 

dk1

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Why do 755/3s run on the Norwich to Stansted service at all? Is it just a case of balancing mileage across the fleet or some stabling or platform issue? Alternatively, did the planners simply identify one diagram with a lower loading factor?

Really not sure. We all swear about it when it happens. There are passenger and crew complaints about repeated use on certain services but suppose they have to be used somewhere.

The risk is the 755/3s become the 153s of the stadler fleet if used on the wrong diagrams as passengers build up again

Passengers numbers on most regional routes have been in excess of pre-pandemic for some time now. Quite where we go from here I’m unsure but should be one less triple traction on the GEML from next week so that should help. Regional timetable’s apparently getting a re-write from May 2025.
 

Adrian1980uk

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Really not sure. We all swear about it when it happens. There are passenger and crew complaints about repeated use on certain services but suppose they have to be used somewhere.
It's a problem, needed for Sudbury, not other use cases but have to be used somewhere although I would suggest the Norwich to Cambridge should be avoided as it should be one of the top routes for 755s as it's between cities

Passengers numbers on most regional routes have been in excess of pre-pandemic for some time now. Quite where we go from here I’m unsure but should be one less triple traction on the GEML from next week so that should help. Regional timetable’s apparently getting a re-write from May 2025.
Nice problem to have in the current climate
 
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TheBigD

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I feel the Cambridge/ Stansted airport run will be an issue in the coming years as it's only going to become more popular but capacity cannot be increased as the trains are at max length they can be and frequency cannot be increased with Ely maxed out.

Plenty of scope to increase capacity between Cambridge and Stansted if/when needed.
There are currently 6 missing XC services per day Mon to Fri between Cambridge and Stansted and vv. All XC services are booked 3 car 170s, but the maximum formation* for the XC service is 4 car 170 (2x2car).
You would more funding, more 170s, and more traincrew though.

* platform 2 at Stansted Airport is limited to a maximum 4 car 170, and the XC trains sit there for 40 minutes. There are restrictions for diesel services using platforms 1 & 3, and both platforms are also more or less full with 4 tph to London and 1tph (off peak only) to Norwich.
 

dk1

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Plenty of scope to increase capacity between Cambridge and Stansted if/when needed.
There are currently 6 missing XC services per day Mon to Fri between Cambridge and Stansted and vv. All XC services are booked 3 car 170s, but the maximum formation* for the XC service is 4 car 170 (2x2car).
You would more funding, more 170s, and more traincrew though.

* platform 2 at Stansted Airport is limited to a maximum 4 car 170, and the XC trains sit there for 40 minutes. There are restrictions for diesel services using platforms 1 & 3, and both platforms are also more or less full with 4 tph to London and 1tph (off peak only) to Norwich.

I’ve never quite understood why XC are allowed to hog the platform for 40mins in every hour at such a restricted station.

It’s not so far been possible to marry up schedules north & south of Cambridge during peak hours hence why SX several Norwich services don’t run through. Things were supposed to be waiting on the ECML timetable re-write but that’s now not happening (if then even) until December of next year. It’s quite a juggling act getting Norwich trains on the buffers end at the airport and why they get timed to wait on the curve. Things get more complicated through the single line tunnel (always the Achilles heel) when the StanEx goes back to a full 4tph each way 7 days a week in a weeks time.
 

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Really not sure. We all swear about it when it happens. There are passenger and crew complaints about repeated use on certain services but suppose they have to be used somewhere.



Passengers numbers on most regional routes have been in excess of pre-pandemic for some time now. Quite where we go from here I’m unsure but should be one less triple traction on the GEML from next week so that should help. Regional timetable’s apparently getting a re-write from May 2025.
How is the current triple 755 diagram being amended?
 

Adrian1980uk

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How is the current triple 755 diagram being amended?
An extra Stansted express unit being used as the triple 755 doesn't provide enough capacity, this probably means an extra double 720 on Stansted express, going to 4 trains an hour throughout the day probably more 720s on that run anyway
 

dk1

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An extra Stansted express unit being used as the triple 755 doesn't provide enough capacity, this probably means an extra double 720 on Stansted express, going to 4 trains an hour throughout the day probably more 720s on that run anyway

Oh yes extra 720s on the StanEx but good news as x3 more 755s available on the regional side.
 

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Really not sure. We all swear about it when it happens. There are passenger and crew complaints about repeated use on certain services but suppose they have to be used somewhere.
Maybe if its 2tph between Norwich and Cambridge it might not be so bad if both services were 755/3s.

Passengers numbers on most regional routes have been in excess of pre-pandemic for some time now. Quite where we go from here I’m unsure but should be one less triple traction on the GEML from next week so that should help.
Have they been? I note that not all the services have returned compared to pre-pandemic though by the look of it.

Regional timetable’s apparently getting a re-write from May 2025.
Wonder what will come of that
 

dk1

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Maybe if its 2tph between Norwich and Cambridge it might not be so bad if both services were 755/3s.


Have they been? I note that not all the services have returned compared to pre-pandemic though by the look of it.

Think 2tph Norwich to Cambridge is a long way off yet.

Apart from the 08:09 & 18:04 (SX) Norwich-Yarmouth & return which other regional services are missing?
 

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While it took longer than planned for so many reasons Greater Anglia's fleet replacement seems to have paid off.
10 years ago there was a very popular thread in here where commuters and enthusiasts would frequently bemoan how bad the service was, how knackered the trains were and how poor travel information and disruption communication was. How things change.
 

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Think 2tph Norwich to Cambridge is a long way off yet.
I fear you may be right but this route, Ipswich to Peterborough and maybe Ipswich to Cambridge should be the main routes for extra services.

Apart from the 08:09 & 18:04 (SX) Norwich-Yarmouth & return which other regional services are missing?
I think it was this route mostly so you are probably right.
 

dk1

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I fear you may be right but this route, Ipswich to Peterborough and maybe Ipswich to Cambridge should be the main routes for extra services.


I think it was this route mostly so you are probably right.

All other regional services have been back for a very long time now.

No chance of additional regular services across Ely North Junction until its upgrade gets agreed and completed.
 

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I’ve never quite understood why XC are allowed to hog the platform for 40mins in every hour at such a restricted station.
I thought it was partly for Birmingham New Street crews to take a PNB, but since Covid I'm not so sure they work throughout (if they ever did). The route knowledge threads on here show the conductors going to Stansted but not the drivers. Can't vouch if that is correct or not though.

In any case finding an alternative path all the way from Stansted to Birmingham every hour (or in the opposite direction) to be able to reduce the platform occupation at Stansted would be a challenge.
 

craigybagel

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I thought it was partly for Birmingham New Street crews to take a PNB, but since Covid I'm not so sure they work throughout (if they ever did). The route knowledge threads on here show the conductors going to Stansted but not the drivers. Can't vouch if that is correct or not though.

In any case finding an alternative path all the way from Stansted to Birmingham every hour (or in the opposite direction) to be able to reduce the platform occupation at Stansted would be a challenge.
New Street drivers did used to work through to Stansted on some services, but they lost it during the XC post COVID cull. Now they only go as far as Cambridge.
 

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New Street drivers did used to work through to Stansted on some services, but they lost it during the XC post COVID cull. Now they only go as far as Cambridge.
That wasn't a great decision - frequent cancellations occur regularly between Cambridge & Stansted on XC
 

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Yes and every time any major events took place in London 170 diagrams were modified to pine the Lowestoft/Peterborough services at Ipswich with 321s forward. This never went down well with through passengers but hey ho, you cannot please everyone. Around the same time 3-car 170s also replaced 2-cars on the now well established Norwich-Cambridge route.
A rattly, draughty 321 with no tables and awkward cramped seating was always a major downgrade from a cosy 170 as well. I don't know how they managed to run 170s in 5, 6 and 9 formations pre 2008 (evidenced on Flickr).
While it took longer than planned for so many reasons Greater Anglia's fleet replacement seems to have paid off.
10 years ago there was a very popular thread in here where commuters and enthusiasts would frequently bemoan how bad the service was, how knackered the trains were and how poor travel information and disruption communication was. How things change.
I'd even go as far as saying we have the best train service in the country. Still I remember how dire it was even up to 2019 with all the shortforms, unrealiability and cancellations, and tired old Sprinters, 321s and 90s.
 

dk1

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A rattly, draughty 321 with no tables and awkward cramped seating was always a major downgrade from a cosy 170 as well. I don't know how they managed to run 170s in 5, 6 and 9 formations pre 2008 (evidenced on Flickr).

Yes I worked trains regularly formed of 9-car 170s in Anglia Railways days as trains like the 19:00 ex-Lst were booked as such with a portion detaching at Ipswich for the East Suffolk line. The 20:00 split for Bury with the leading unit going forward to Norwich/Yarmouth. These completley ceased in NXEA days apart from the 06:44 ex-Lowestoft & 07:05 ex-Yarmouth that combined at Ipswich forming the 08:30 ‘East Anglian’ non-stop to Liverpool St. These units then formed the 09:38 Lowestoft/10:38 Peterborough.

I think where you are getting confused is that under Anglia EVERYTHING they operated had a guard. Once merged with GE in 2004 DOO was permitted on 170s south of Ipswich but ONLY on single units. Everything operated by 170s in multiple had to have a guard still. There were not enough units to do this anyway so it didn’t matter and hence why 321s were substituted.
 

Adrian1980uk

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Think 2tph Norwich to Cambridge is a long way off yet.

Apart from the 08:09 & 18:04 (SX) Norwich-Yarmouth & return which other regional services are missing?
Silly idea but if it went to 2tph, 1 could be extended to Yarmouth... There's probably a market Yarmouth to Stansted via Norwich and Cambridge without changing trains.

Would be interesting to see October/Novembers passenger numbers, I reckon they'll not be far off 2019 levels given the busy trains I've seen.
 
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