More police misbehaviour: are they trying to deliberately wind the public up?

[brad465]

There's quite a conflict in the Tory Party between the libertarians and authoritarians, but I don't know how the numbers stack up. This legislation won't apply in Scotland, so I assume the SNP will abstain. I suspect the government will win this, their majority is huge. It would take an enormous rebellion for them to lose.

Two things here in a swings and roundabouts situation: firstly Ian Blackford has said the SNP will vote against the bill, suggesting a united opposition. Secondly we might learn from this vote how many of the libertarian's in the Tory Party are hypocrites with this vote, as the bill targets issues that don't impact on the Tory party more than ones that do (the CRG have more than enough numbers to force a loss, but I don't see them all acting to prevent passage). However we did have Theresa May of all people condemning the bill in Parliament for being an attack on democracy, but I can't recall her stating a voting intention, where she criticised the Internal market bill but abstained rather than voted against it, along with a number of other Tory MP critics. I expect there won't be a united Tory party voting in favour, but whether enough rebel or abstain to prevent passage is another matter.

 

[Journeyman]

Two things here in a swings and roundabouts situation: firstly Ian Blackford has said the SNP will vote against the bill, suggesting a united opposition. Secondly we might learn from this vote how many of the libertarian's in the Tory Party are hypocrites with this vote, as the bill targets issues that don't impact on the Tory party more than ones that do (the CRG have more than enough numbers to force a loss, but I don't see them all acting to prevent passage). However we did have Theresa May of all people condemning the bill in Parliament for being an attack on democracy, but I can't recall her stating a voting intention, where she criticised the Internal market bill but abstained rather than voted against it, along with a number of other Tory MP critics. I expect there won't be a united Tory party voting in favour, but whether enough rebel or abstain to prevent passage is another matter.

Ah, that's good! I'm no fan of the SNP at all - I live in Scotland and I'm heartily sick of them - but another fifty-odd votes against the government is welcome. Let's just hope some Tories read the room and get a feel for just how angry people are right now.

 

[backontrack]

Sarah Everard vigil: Woman 'was ignored by police' over exposure report

She was on her way home from the Sarah Everard vigil when she was confronted by a man.

www.bbc.co.uk

Time and time and time again.

He called vigil attendees "rioters" ???

Not even 'protestors', rioters?!

Oh my word. That betrays their bloody attitude, doesn't it?

It’s a legitimate question

No, it isn't.

A more legitimate question might be "Isn't referring to a woman as 'the redhead' rather misogynistic - especially when you already know her name, and when we already know who you're referring to?"

 

[21C101]

If you don't want the Police to use force to break up demonstrations then don't vote for laws banning gatherings of people in the first place.

Oniy about a dozen MPs had the foresight to realise that passing such laws inevitably has effects far beyond the well meaning but naive intentions behind them.

 

[Yew]

He called vigil attendees "rioters" ???

Not even 'protestors', rioters?!

Oh my word. That betrays their bloody attitude, doesn't it?


No, it isn't.

A more legitimate question might be "Isn't referring to a woman as 'the redhead' rather misogynistic - especially when you already know her name, and when we already know who you're referring to?"

Using law enforcement terminology, the correct term would be demonstrators.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Everyday there is a new example of quite how braindead the Police are, it beggars belief how they get the job if they can’t learn the basics. In this example this simpleton decides that there are flavours of lanyards.

 

[notlob.divad]

Using law enforcement terminology, the correct term would be demonstrators.

Given the original purpose of the gathering, I would say mourners was more accurate terminology.

 

[TPO]

Everyday there is a new examp,e of quite how braindead the Police are, it beggars belief how they get the job if they can’t learn the basics. In this example this simpleton decides that there are flavours of lanyards.

The police person there is totally in the wrong. Police misusing powers, then making threats when someone politely but firmly stands up to them for doing so. Whilst I realise we only have that video extract, it's difficult to see "another side" as no doubt there will be police apologists on here saying we should.

Where significant powers are granted to individuals (such as police officers) there's a responsibility on the individual not to misuse them and on their employer (the police force/service) to have systems in place to ensure the officers are both fully informed and held accountable for their use of powers.

Please no "oh but it's so difficult" arguments either, no it's not that difficult if you police according to the LAW (not the "guidance").

Time that the power to issue any FPN was removed from police fully as I suspect they are being misused in some cases (many cases???), I suppose it's good for the stats (find crime, detect crime, close crime all from one FPN on COVID rules) but it's not good policing and creates perverse incentives.

TPO

 

[brad465]

Ah, that's good! I'm no fan of the SNP at all - I live in Scotland and I'm heartily sick of them - but another fifty-odd votes against the government is welcome. Let's just hope some Tories read the room and get a feel for just how angry people are right now.

Charles Walker, who's been a very strong voice against Covid restrictions on the Tory backbenches, gave a speech in Parliament joining May in saying he doesn't like the restrictions on freedom to protest this time, a view shared by Richard Tice (even though he's not in Parliament). We still have to see how Walker votes and how many others along his view of Covid restrictions share the same with the policing bill.

 

[squizzler]

I presume there must already be a crowdfund somewhere to immortalise Sarah Everard with a statue in her honour, since the government might be more keen to protect her person if it were made of bronze and erected on a plinth.

 

[PHILIPE]

I wonder what support there would be if somebody organised a vigil in support of people who have lost their lives through becoming in close contact with somebody with COVID who was part of a non social distancing mob. There would be nothing for the police to do as all COVID regulations would, I'm sure, be observed and the rabble wouldn't turn up.

 

[VauxhallandI]

We could do one everyday for the deniers.

In this one the WPC is quoting a shops made up signage as the law, another one that should have a P45 in the morning.

 

[LMS 4F]

It looks as though this is a Community Support Officer with limited training and not a Constable, often seen where I live making an ass of the job.

 

[VauxhallandI]

It looks as though this is a Community Support Officer with limited training and not a Constable, often seen where I live making an ass of the job.

No he asks if she is a PCSO and they confirm she is a Met officer

 

[bramling]

Everyday there is a new example of quite how braindead the Police are, it beggars belief how they get the job if they can’t learn the basics. In this example this simpleton decides that there are flavours of lanyards.

Cringeworthy how the officer touches his mask every few seconds.

 

[Yew]

Cringeworthy how the officer touches his mask every few seconds.

Anyone would think there was a reason that they were specifically recommended against until last year.

 

[LMS 4F]

No he asks if she is a PCSO and they confirm she is a Met officer

Doesn’t have an Officer style hat and the writing on her epaulettes looks as though it says PCSO I would take what is said with a large pinch of salt.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Doesn’t have an Officer style hat and the writing on her epaulettes looks as though it says PCSO I would take what is said with a large pinch of salt.

Her words not mine

 

[Ediswan]

No he asks if she is a PCSO and they confirm she is a Met officer

A PCSO is an "officer", it's in the name. There may have been some careful use of language.

Also, the term WPC was dropped in 1999.

 

[Mojo]

Doesn’t have an Officer style hat and the writing on her epaulettes looks as though it says PCSO I would take what is said with a large pinch of salt.

Her words not mine

She's a PCSO, its quite clear from the uniform (hat badge, blue epaulettes, blue tie). Plus the badge on her jacket which says POLICE STAFF, rather than POLICE OFFICER.

 

[jumble]

Sarah Everard: Virtual and doorstep vigils held across the UK

The prime minister and the Duchess of Cambridge are among those paying tribute to the 33-year-old.

www.bbc.co.uk

What the BBC aren't (yet?) reporting is the poor behaviour by police which is readily available on social media, such as:

https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1370824159991828484

Here are some excellent observations (as always) from Adam Wagner:

https://twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/1370826008463605761

Yet again the police have been caught behaving in a disgraceful manner; they appear to be trying to turn the public against them as much as possible.

We do NOT consent!

If there are any police officers reading this, please talk to your Unions, please talk to your commanding officers, and please urge that the force stops behaving in such a disgraceful manner.

I would hugely respect any officer who threatens to resign over police behaviour during this pandemic. If I worked for an organisation that was acting in such a way, I would be threatening to resign, for sure.

Whilst I to a large extent absolutely agree with what's been said about the police in this thread (and others), for me the ultimate blame for all this still lies largely with the politicians. The buck for police matters stops with Priti Patel.

Of course when the MET are answering Priti Patel's demand for an enquiry upon being asked why they acted as they did their answer will be "because you instructed us to do so"

 

[VauxhallandI]

She's a PCSO, its quite clear from the uniform (hat badge, blue epaulettes, blue tie). Plus the badge on her jacket which says POLICE STAFF, rather than POLICE OFFICER.

Ha well we can add misrepresentation to the list

 

[LOL The Irony]

Ha well we can add misrepresentation to the list

Isn't it illegal to say you're a police officer when you're not?

 

[jumble]

Why do you expect an Imbecele who when asked to show the Chap the law says Tesco have it on their poster to behave any differently

 

[VauxhallandI]

Isn't it illegal to say you're a police officer when you're not?

I was adding it to charge list to put to a judge. It's disingenuous who asked are you a PCSO or Proper Police to infer you were not a PCSO when you are.

Why do you expect an Imbecele who when asked to show the Chap the law says Tesco have it on their poster to behave any differently

It would be interesting to know the training for a PCSO. The normal training is only 10 weeks now iirc

 

[A Challenge]

I think the police acted in a terribly bad way at Clapham Common, because even if they were going to be breaking up the protest, they went a too far with their actions. I don't think it was unreasonable, given the law at the moment (even if I disagree with the law, they should be enforcing the law, and they said it couldn't go ahead), to attempt to break up the vigil once it started to become more like a protest (though they probably should have dispersed the vigil as well, so it never made it to this point and we aren't having this discussion).

I do not want a society, which is where some people here seem to want to go, where there is no trust in the police, so I think the police need to try and make themselves seem more approachable and professional, and there's no way the Met (or Derbyshire) are going to do this with the current leadership (and to some extent, the current officers). We can't now fire loads of police officers because of this, but we do need to get a grip on the police and there is wholesale change needed. The police do need to be careful not to bend to public opinion, though, letting illegal things happen if the public like them - what needs to happen for this is law change (and it does need to), because frankly it's little better than the current position. They are in a very difficult position here, they should not have been out in a position where upholding the law required the breaking up of this protest.

 

[brad465]

The police have just received an indictment from a former police chief about there being a 'toxic culture of sexism' in the force:

'Toxic culture of sexism' in police, says former police chief

A former chief constable says women reporting crimes endure "endless repeated humiliation".

www.bbc.co.uk

A former police chief has said she would think "very carefully" about reporting a crime committed against her because of how she would be "judged".
Susannah Fish, former chief constable of Nottinghamshire Police, said there was a "toxic culture of sexism" in significant parts of policing.
But the police chiefs' body said women who came forward would be listened to.
It comes after the killing of Sarah Everard sparked concerns for women's safety in public.
During an interview with BBC Radio 4's Woman's Hour, Ms Fish was asked how she felt about reporting a crime to the police as a woman.
She replied that while reporting a crime against property was "not an issue", for a crime against herself she would "probably struggle for how I would be judged".

• What went wrong at the Sarah Everard vigil?
• How many attacks on women are there?
• Why is misogyny not a hate crime?

Ms Fish added that while some officers would be "sensitive", others would not.
"I also know in terms of conviction rates and the challenges of going through the criminal justice system, as a woman, it's thankless," she said.
"Endless repeated humiliation, telling your story over and over again, worrying whether you're ever going to be believed, putting yourself through that repeatedly, as well as the shame of what's happened to you."
She added that victim-blaming had become "endemic" and "trying to then explain yourself and justify yourself, just feels to me to be incredibly difficult".
However, Olivia Pinkney, chief constable of Hampshire Police and representing the National Police Chiefs' Council, told the programme: "When women have the courage to come forward to anyone, including the police, then they will be listened to, they will be heard, they will be supported.
"I know that happens, because I know that we follow up every case."
She added: "I'm sure that we get stuff wrong. But if we get it wrong, then we'll hear about it and we'll fix it."

 

[LMS 4F]

I was adding it to charge list to put to a judge. It's disingenuous who asked are you a PCSO or Proper Police to infer you were not a PCSO when you are.


It would be interesting to know the training for a PCSO. The normal training is only 10 weeks now iirc

When they were first introduced in West York’s it was a 3 week course. It may have changed by now or vary on other forces.
Constables carry out training throughout their first 2 years whilst they are known as Probationers.

 

[brad465]

It's official, YouGov polls are nonsense (not that we didn't know that already): they think the following is representative of plain-clothed officer support:

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372305789180899329

Do you support or oppose plain clothed police officers patrolling bars and nightclubs to protect women? Support: 67% Oppose: 23% Via
@YouGov

As some of the replies pointed out, those who frequent nightclubs and do YouGov polls probably don't overlap.

 

[birchesgreen]

Who voted though? I haven't been in a nightclub for over 20 years so if they asked me i couldn't see how my opinion would be valid. (I'd oppose it though).