Motorway Driving - too many idiots

[aavm]

Was on the M1 a couple of times recently, for the first time in a while.
Lots of bad driving, people pulling in 5 feet from you at 70mph, best was lane 3 to hard shoulder to overtake then back again.
Passed a 2 car accident at 6am when the road was nearly empty.
Although its a bit nanny state, time for average speed cameras (to cut down on lane changing and overtaking) and "distance to the car in front" cameras?

Aside: 1 person came by train, had to work late and missed his train. £120 for a walk up ticket. He didn't use the train the next time.

 

[D365]

Was on the M1 a couple of times recently, for the first time in a while.
Lots of bad driving, people pulling in 5 feet from you at 70mph, best was lane 3 to hard shoulder to overtake then back again.

This, ”tailgating” and ”lane hogging” are the motorway problems. People feel too safe in their vehicles these days; no respect for the speed and forces involved.

 

[Snow1964]

There are some really bad drivers, last trip I did, got cut up twice by people overtaking with the manoeuvre then signal once part way through lane change, clearly without checking mirror.

Also had someone dive in from fast lane about car length in front, then did it again because intending to get to slip road across hatched area.

I am not sure we need average speed cameras, (and I think limit should be 80mph), but more detection of bad driving, detecting too close, not moving over when inside clear. And more of the road mounted laser scanners that spot those with bald tyres who can't stop when wet. Basically penalise the idiots rather than have speed limit based on 1960s cars capability.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Many of the problems are caused by there being almost no policing. Things like lane hogging are too difficult to enforce using cameras because of complexities posed by e.g. different stopping distances. Like everywhere in society we need more on the ground, proper police officers and need to be willing to fund that.

 

[Iskra]

I’m noticing increasing amounts of middle lane hogging, and a more recent phenomenon of people sitting in the right hand lane at inappropriate speeds with a massive queue developing behind them. This then leads to impatient drivers weaving and undertaking to get through the unnecessary tailback which is sub optimal.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I’m noticing increasing amounts of middle lane hogging...

More often, than not, they seem to be drivers of private hire vehicles tootling along at 45 to 50 m.p.h. in lane two of three of an (otherwise) not that busy motorway.

 

[baz962]

More often, than not, they seem to be drivers of private hire vehicles tootling along at 45 to 50 m.p.h. in lane two of three of an (otherwise) not that busy motorway.

I agree. Pretty much every taxi I get to or from London does it and it amuses me. I do wonder if I should say something.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Although I agree lane hogging is annoying, the USA is much worse - trust me. Infuriating

 

[bramling]

Was on the M1 a couple of times recently, for the first time in a while.
Lots of bad driving, people pulling in 5 feet from you at 70mph, best was lane 3 to hard shoulder to overtake then back again.
Passed a 2 car accident at 6am when the road was nearly empty.
Although its a bit nanny state, time for average speed cameras (to cut down on lane changing and overtaking) and "distance to the car in front" cameras?

Aside: 1 person came by train, had to work late and missed his train. £120 for a walk up ticket. He didn't use the train the next time.

The M1 between about Northampton and London has been awful for as long as I can remember, however I’ve noticed a sharp decline in other motorways too, mainly in the south-east.

The southern section of the A1(M) is pretty bad. An in particular a big increase in cars hogging the outside lane, either overtaking with virtually no speed differential, or quite often not overtaking anything at all - which then leads to undertaking as you describe. And plenty of the sudden changing lanes to the right directly into the path of others.

Not sure what’s going on, but it seems to tie in with the general mentality seen since Covid where some people seem to have lost all spatial awareness. It possibly hasn’t helped that we’ve had this odd Easter holiday where Easter itself came unusually early which has left people with two weeks of boredom, so a lot of people floating around with little to do and so no rush to get around.

Average speed cameras definitely isn’t the solution as this seems to make these things worse. More police enforcement of actual driving is the answer - remove the focus on speed, but make it so there’s actually the possibility of being fined for being in a grossly inappropriate lane, or for pulling out and forcing someone else to have to brake suddenly. The latter would really help, as the prospect of being fined would focus minds.

 

[jfollows]

Although I agree lane hogging is annoying, the USA is much worse - trust me. Infuriating

I disagree, mainly because passing slower traffic on either side is generally "permitted" in the USA, so people are accustomed to it and expecting it, so there's no aggro.

I agree that "lane discipline" is poor in the USA, but it doesn't matter as much, and my observation is that now it's as bad in the UK as it used to be in the USA where I lived and drove 1989-2000 or so.

Nowadays in the UK I often pass slower drivers on the wrong side, I just can't be bothered, although I know I'm opening myself up to trouble by doing so. To be honest I'm more concerned about drivers not keeping their distance from me or cutting in too soon after overtaking me.

 

[jon81uk]

Many of the problems are caused by there being almost no policing. Things like lane hogging are too difficult to enforce using cameras because of complexities posed by e.g. different stopping distances. Like everywhere in society we need more on the ground, proper police officers and need to be willing to fund that.

I’m noticing increasing amounts of middle lane hogging, and a more recent phenomenon of people sitting in the right hand lane at inappropriate speeds with a massive queue developing behind them. This then leads to impatient drivers weaving and undertaking to get through the unnecessary tailback which is sub optimal.

There is currently a campaign to try and remind driver to stay in the left lane unless overtaking. Don't think it will work, but National Highways have recognised there is an issue and it has been in the news to try and re-educate drivers.

New National Highways campaign urges lane hoggers and tailgaters to change their driving style - National Highways

One in three drivers have admitted to middle lane hogging while one in four have been guilty of tailgating on some of the nation’s fastest roads, figures released by National Highways reveal.

nationalhighways.co.uk

 

[Peter Sarf]

Many of the problems are caused by there being almost no policing. Things like lane hogging are too difficult to enforce using cameras because of complexities posed by e.g. different stopping distances. Like everywhere in society we need more on the ground, proper police officers and need to be willing to fund that.

I agree the only enforcing seems to be that achieved with automatic/non-human devices.

I for one would rather replace speed bumps with something more likely to catch the speeders. A speed bump does not slow down people who do not care about the speed limit, others safety or their car. It does force those of us who care to drive at 5mph to protect their vehicle. A speed bump also means more accelerating and braking outside my bedroom window leading to noise and other pollution, plus the scraping noise of those who choose not to waste petrol !.

I often see cars passing with a mobile phone obviously in use by the driver in one hand. If you see a driver looking down a lot it is because they have a text on their lap !.

I agree. Pretty much every taxi I get to or from London does it and it amuses me. I do wonder if I should say something.

I am coming to the conclusion that a lot of drivers that might be from abroad do not come from countries with the same standards as the UK.

Double parking an empty space.

Driving along the wrong side of the road from side turning to side turning.

In London, when mini cabs started getting the LT totem symbol it all became very clear who/what the culprits are !.

Standards have declined.

I disagree, mainly because passing slower traffic on either side is generally "permitted" in the USA, so people are accustomed to it and expecting it, so there's no aggro.

I agree that "lane discipline" is poor in the USA, but it doesn't matter as much, and my observation is that now it's as bad in the UK as it used to be in the USA where I lived and drove 1989-2000 or so.

Nowadays in the UK I often pass slower drivers on the wrong side, I just can't be bothered, although I know I'm opening myself up to trouble by doing so. To be honest I'm more concerned about drivers not keeping their distance from me or cutting in too soon after overtaking me.

I am one of those who has given up changing from lane one to lane 3 just to overtake a dawdler in lane 2. It is a lot less lane changing to just keep going steadily in lane 1 - until I meet something in that lane. I often do it with my hand on the horn just to let them know I am creeping up on the wrong side (although I doubt they know there is a wrong side). Also saves interacting with those in lane 3 going faster than me. Mind you I hate people who will not let someone into lane 2 from lane 1, that just encourages the timid to stay out in lane 2 once they have finally got into it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

More often, than not, they seem to be drivers of private hire vehicles tootling along at 45 to 50 m.p.h. in lane two of three of an (otherwise) not that busy motorway.

Probably well over 75% of the bad driving I see is private hire minicabs of some sort. The industry needs a massive crackdown.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Probably well over 75% of the bad driving I see is private hire minicabs of some sort. The industry needs a massive crackdown.

Indeed. My first "interesting" experience was getting in a minicab back in the 1990s and noticing the driver was being entertained by a transistor radio. The radio was in the front footwell.... (ideal for getting stuck under the brake pedal).

I would add that I don't just see it as Motorways that show up the idiots.

How about making the driving test harder and also making it necessary to retake the test after every slight misdemeanour. Also properly check the id of the person taking the test.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How about making the driving test harder and also making it necessary to retake the test after every slight misdemeanour. Also properly check the id of the person taking the test.

I think there is not an unreasonable case for normal B licences to have a "not for hire or reward" sort of clause* and a test with a much higher standard and five yearly retesting applied to anyone whose job is primarily driving, be that minicabs or vans. Probably also max 6 points before withdrawal rather than the normal 12, and get rid of the stupidity that people can claim hardship to keep their licence when it would normally be withdrawn - if your licence is your living, drive legally all the time so you keep it.

Also require tachographs on such vehicles with the same rules applied as lorries/coaches. Too much driving tired by private hire vehicles, do a morning airport run and you will see it.

* Not incidental driving like a business trip once in a blue moon, but people who drive for a living.

 

[66701GBRF]

How about making the driving test harder and also making it necessary to retake the test after every slight misdemeanour. Also properly check the id of the person taking the test.

Make test harder, yes. But no to retaking tests after a slight mistake. No driver is perfect.

 

[Lost property]

Standards have declined.

I am one of those who has given up changing from lane one to lane 3 just to overtake a dawdler in lane 2. It is a lot less lane changing to just keep going steadily in lane 1 - until I meet something in that lane. I often do it with my hand on the horn just to let them know I am creeping up on the wrong side (although I doubt they know there is a wrong side). Also saves interacting with those in lane 3 going faster than me. Mind you I hate people who will not let someone into lane 2 from lane 1, that just encourages the timid to stay out in lane 2 once they have finally got into it.

As you have kindly exemplified with your own arrogant and incompetent "driving ".

Would you care to go one step further please and post the marque / registration of your vehicle in order that other road users are aware of your "ability " should they have the misfortune to encounter you.

 

[bramling]

As you have kindly exemplified with your own arrogant and incompetent "driving ".

Would you care to go one step further please and post the marque / registration of your vehicle in order that other road users are aware of your "ability " should they have the misfortune to encounter you.

In what way is the previous poster’s driving arrogant? Whilst the safety aspects of undertaking are certainly debatable, he is well within his rights to be irritated at having to cross from lane 1 to 3 and back to pass someone who is incorrectly positioned.

And if it was a two-lane road then what is he supposed to do? Sit there all day and effectively form a roadblock?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In what way is the previous poster’s driving arrogant? Whilst the safety aspects of undertaking are certainly debatable, he is well within his rights to be irritated at having to cross from lane 1 to 3 and back to pass someone who is incorrectly positioned.

And if it was a two-lane road then what is he supposed to do? Sit there all day and effectively form a roadblock?

I personally find doing 1-3-1 quite enjoyable. Best done in the most perfect way possible with correct spacing and indication to be as smugly sanctimonious as possible.

Sometimes even wakes them up!

Worth noting though that if traffic is moving in queues staying in lane is the correct approach.

 

[bramling]

I personally find doing 1-3-1 quite enjoyable. Best done in the most perfect way possible with correct spacing and indication to be as smugly sanctimonious as possible.

Sometimes even wakes them up!

I don’t enjoy doing it in the late evening when I’ve been at work for the day, and just want to get home as painlessly as possible. I can well understand why the previous poster finds it irritating. That said, I won’t undertake in that situation.

What we get on the A1M is a variation on the theme, where the doltz isn’t in lane 2, but doing 60 mph in lane 3 of an otherwise empty road. That’s an even worse display of lacking self-awareness, but seems increasingly common. In fact I can pretty much guarantee to see it at least one during an evening journey home.

Worth noting though that if traffic is moving in queues staying in lane is the correct approach.

Agreed. However if anything people seem to want to change lanes *more* in that situation. In a lot of cases changing lane achieves nothing, I’m sure people do it not for any practical reason but simply because they think they are missing out on something. Just like in my road there is an old guy who seems to always want to park in a specific space, and the only apparent reason for it seems to be that it’s where others park - and the only reason those others do it is for the convenience of having their own cars together, not because the space is superior in any way.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The M1 between about Northampton and London has been awful for as long as I can remember, however I’ve noticed a sharp decline in other motorways too, mainly in the south-east.

ds.

Not at 6am in the morning on my local motorway!

In terms of middle-lane hogging; sometimes this is unavoidable in the rush hour when you have lots of lorries in lane 1 and changing lanes frequently is just too dangerous.

 

[DanNCL]

More often, than not, they seem to be drivers of private hire vehicles tootling along at 45 to 50 m.p.h. in lane two of three of an (otherwise) not that busy motorway.

This. So many of the bad drivers are in private hire vehicles. Pretty much whenever I see one now, I drive extra cautiously around it as I don’t trust them not to be a complete idiot and do something that could cause an accident.
There needs to be a crackdown on all rogue drivers but especially dodgy private hire drivers.

 

[baz962]

I think there is not an unreasonable case for normal B licences to have a "not for hire or reward" sort of clause* and a test with a much higher standard and five yearly retesting applied to anyone whose job is primarily driving, be that minicabs or vans. Probably also max 6 points before withdrawal rather than the normal 12, and get rid of the stupidity that people can claim hardship to keep their licence when it would normally be withdrawn - if your licence is your living, drive legally all the time so you keep it.

Also require tachographs on such vehicles with the same rules applied as lorries/coaches. Too much driving tired by private hire vehicles, do a morning airport run and you will see it.

* Not incidental driving like a business trip once in a blue moon, but people who drive for a living.

Also with you bringing up vans. A van can have a speed limit ten miles an hour less than cars , unless car derived and also over two tonnes laden. Most transit drivers seem oblivious to that.

 

[75A]

I find it's the Mercedes Sprinters that are the hardest to keep up with.

 

[Lost property]

In what way is the previous poster’s driving arrogant? Whilst the safety aspects of undertaking are certainly debatable, he is well within his rights to be irritated at having to cross from lane 1 to 3 and back to pass someone who is incorrectly positioned.

And if it was a two-lane road then what is he supposed to do? Sit there all day and effectively form a roadblock?

Did you actually read what he wrote ?...such as driving with his hand on the horn as he undertakes, or not wishing to interact with drivers in lane 3...if you can't comply with basic overtaking techniques, and behave the way he claims, then you aren't a competent driver.

And how can he cause a road block on a two lane road when he can be overtaken by anybody who wishes to do so ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also with you bringing up vans. A van can have a speed limit ten miles an hour less than cars , unless car derived and also over two tonnes laden. Most transit drivers seem oblivious to that.

I saw an idiot in one of those massive pickups doing 90ish (I guessed, I was doing bang on 70 on the limiter) with a large trailer in lane 4 of the M6 on Sunday...probably enough for a ban there if there were actual police about. Two offences in one there.

 

[Enthusiast]

...and get rid of the stupidity that people can claim hardship to keep their licence when it would normally be withdrawn - if your licence is your living, drive legally all the time so you keep it.

Bear in mind it must be "exceptional hardship" (i.e. over and above the hardship that drivers - or others - would normally endure if they were banned). Here's the magistrates' guidance when considering such an argument:

When considering whether there are grounds to reduce or avoid a totting up disqualification the court should have regard to the following:

It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence is given, it must be sworn.

Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have evidence;

Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the preventative effect of the order not to drive.

If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can take this circumstance into account.

Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives (including alternative means of transport) for avoiding exceptional hardship are not viable;

Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others.

However, that said, I believe that the facility should not be available at all. Drivers subject to a "totting up" ban must have committed at least two, and more usually three or four offences before being subject to it. They have ample opportunity to modify their driving. The same facility is not available to drivers subject to a mandatory ban (e.g. for excess alcohol) or for those on whom the court imposes a discretionary ban when it is considered that points are insufficient. I can't see why an argument should be available to avoid a totting up ban when it is not available for immediate disqualifications.

 

[aavm]

Is it ok to stay in the middle lane at 70mph, if there are slower lorries in lane 1, rather than lane changing all the time?

 

[156421]

Special mention must go to those who use a full length down hill slip road to reach a speed of 45-50 mph (hence, slower than the HGVs they are about to merge into) with no consideration of those behind them.

Also those who, in slow moving traffic, don't use the fuil length of the slip road, instead merging into the main carriageway halfway along its length.

 

[Lost property]

Is it ok to stay in the middle lane at 70mph, if there are slower lorries in lane 1, rather than lane changing all the time?

No !

You simply wait until a gap appears, signal, and move into lane 1 .