I've done that as well! I hate that road.I must admit that I tend to use lane 2 on the M25 (and keep in it), as so often lane 1 becomes the exit lane for a junction.
I've done that as well! I hate that road.I must admit that I tend to use lane 2 on the M25 (and keep in it), as so often lane 1 becomes the exit lane for a junction.
Mirror, signal, manoeuvre. A pretty basic term that everyone learns on day one. Too basic for you probably.
A good question, but I don't think sprunt is to blame for inventing "MSM". Learner drivers have been taught it for decades, and even the UK Government uses it: https://readytopass.campaign.gov.uk/driving-skills/observation-signalling-and-planning/So why not write that rather than invent an acronym?
Reminds me of the glorious occasion I was doing 65 in lane 2 of a dual carriageway and an elderly lady trundling along at 30 with her right hand mirror folded in decided to pull out from behind a tractor she'd hitherto been following quite happily in front of me. Luckily for both of us I braked and there was nobody behind me. Her licence should have been revoked for driving without mirrors let alone anything else.Lady in her 80s. Driving to visit her husband in hospital with terminal cancer. Taking all his favourite foods hoping he'll take a bite of one of them. Had to cross an M25 junction into the outside lane of a short but fast dual carriageway. Too scared to change lane or go past 40. Tailgated. Beeped. Made a fraught journey worse but she had to go. Maybe think before punishing drivers who offend your sense of righteousness. It could be their need is greater than yours
Driving at 40mph on a clear dual carriageway is dangerous, I would argue that behaviour just as bad as too fast.Lady in her 80s. Driving to visit her husband in hospital with terminal cancer. Taking all his favourite foods hoping he'll take a bite of one of them. Had to cross an M25 junction into the outside lane of a short but fast dual carriageway. Too scared to change lane or go past 40. Tailgated. Beeped. Made a fraught journey worse but she had to go. Maybe think before punishing drivers who offend your sense of righteousness. It could be their need is greater than yours
I completely agree. And all of us are likely to encounter someone like that from time to time. If you're travelling at 70mph at the time the consequences are overwhelmingly likely to be less serious than if you are travelling at 100mph. As I said in an earlier post, it's about a balance between convenience and safety.Driving at 40mph on a clear dual carriageway is dangerous, I would argue that behaviour just as bad as too fast.
Lady in her 80s. Driving to visit her husband in hospital with terminal cancer. Taking all his favourite foods hoping he'll take a bite of one of them. Had to cross an M25 junction into the outside lane of a short but fast dual carriageway. Too scared to change lane or go past 40. Tailgated. Beeped. Made a fraught journey worse but she had to go. Maybe think before punishing drivers who offend your sense of righteousness. It could be their need is greater than yours
Many seem to do 70 thoughThe speed limit for large HGVs is 60mph (on motorways and dual carriageways). However, most HGVs have speed limiters fitted restricting them to 90kmh (56mph). This was a result of an EU directive stemming from the 1990s.
I completely agree. But as much as we'd like the roads to be as we'd prefer them, they are as they are and drivers like that are on the roads. That's why it's important that measures to mitigate the risks they pose must be in place. Those advocating an increase or even the abandonment of some speed limits seem only to concentrate on their own driving capabilities and the improvement in vehicle engineering since the limits were imposed. They seem to neglect the hazards presented by people less capable than themselves and simply saying "they shouldn't be on the road" does not mean they won't be.Whilst sympathising greatly, if someone is not confident about driving on a dual carriageway to the extent they are scared of changing lane or driving faster than 40moh then frankly they should not be driving on it, and they should make other transport arrangements instead, such as a taxi.
Focused on the sat nav or phone quite often if in middle lane. I was on a motorway at 3 am with no traffic at all and there was a small yaris in the middle lane doing 50 mph.More often, than not, they seem to be drivers of private hire vehicles tootling along at 45 to 50 m.p.h. in lane two of three of an (otherwise) not that busy motorway.
Quite often see them in the outside lane tailgating or big white vans generally, always in a rush. Also watch out for dodgy sprinters from RO.I find it's the Mercedes Sprinters that are the hardest to keep up with.
Lady in her 80s. Driving to visit her husband in hospital with terminal cancer. Taking all his favourite foods hoping he'll take a bite of one of them. Had to cross an M25 junction into the outside lane of a short but fast dual carriageway. Too scared to change lane or go past 40. Tailgated. Beeped. Made a fraught journey worse but she had to go. Maybe think before punishing drivers who offend your sense of righteousness. It could be their need is greater than yours
On this stretch of the M25 I can understand it as the surface quality of lane 1 is so poor that last time I drove that way I ended up moving into lane 2 to ensure my car wasn’t shaken to bits. Assume the constant pounding of lane 1 by HGVs and inadequate maintenance is the key issue here.From the A23 to the M26 however I found there was very little using lane 1 until the point where the anticlockwise M25 turns off itself.
Whilst sympathising greatly, if someone is not confident about driving on a dual carriageway to the extent they are scared of changing lane or driving faster than 40moh then frankly they should not be driving on it, and they should make other transport arrangements instead, such as a taxi.
This is a difficult conversation I have had to have with my parents.
There is a balance to be struck between convenience and speed for the most able of us and that need people have to be mobile.The gist of the above seems to be that as some people lack driving ability, everyone has to be debased to the same low level - which also seems to then mean that those with lower ability don’t improve.
In the above situation it’s a driving test fail to cause another motorist to have to suddenly change course or slow down, so essentially granny in her Metro shouldn’t be there if she can’t change lanes without screwing up. Of if her judgement is that poor then maybe at least she shouldn’t be attempting to change lanes in the first place?
Indeed.They do tend to make for broadly entertaining, if somewhat polarised, threads, though!
This is the nub of it. We have developed a society that relies on cars.Lady in her 80s. Driving to visit her husband in hospital with terminal cancer. Taking all his favourite foods hoping he'll take a bite of one of them. Had to cross an M25 junction into the outside lane of a short but fast dual carriageway. Too scared to change lane or go past 40. Tailgated. Beeped. Made a fraught journey worse but she had to go. Maybe think before punishing drivers who offend your sense of righteousness. It could be their need is greater than yours
Yes. I am sure 70mph is fast enough - we have to consider the abilities of all drivers. Furthermore if the speed limit was increased to 100mph there would still be those just going "a wee bit" over - as in 30mph so their unofficial 100mph becomes 130mph !.I completely agree. And all of us are likely to encounter someone like that from time to time. If you're travelling at 70mph at the time the consequences are overwhelmingly likely to be less serious than if you are travelling at 100mph. As I said in an earlier post, it's about a balance between convenience and safety.
And I think younger drivers should ponder whether they should give older drivers a lift.Whilst sympathising greatly, if someone is not confident about driving on a dual carriageway to the extent they are scared of changing lane or driving faster than 40moh then frankly they should not be driving on it, and they should make other transport arrangements instead, such as a taxi.
This is a difficult conversation I have had to have with my parents.
Yes - Cars have got better but the drivers are still the same range of abilities.I completely agree. But as much as we'd like the roads to be as we'd prefer them, they are as they are and drivers like that are on the roads. That's why it's important that measures to mitigate the risks they pose must be in place. Those advocating an increase or even the abandonment of some speed limits seem only to concentrate on their own driving capabilities and the improvement in vehicle engineering since the limits were imposed. They seem to neglect the hazards presented by people less capable than themselves and simply saying "they shouldn't be on the road" does not mean they won't be.
The've upset us in so many other ways, that they're going to get their cumuppance anyway.Of course, political parties won’t want to do anything about it for fear of upsetting the precious pensioner vote.
It never ceases to amaze and annoy me that so many people line up to have a go at 'older' drivers and their abilities, maybe some of you should have a look out of your windscreens at both the 'young' and 'middle age' lunatics that infest the roads, I can't say that I've seen many oldies driving along using their phones, slopping back coffee and generally ignoring every road rule that's ever been made, and don't get me onto the subject of 'professional' lorry and van drivers some of who are the most dangerous maniacs you'll ever come across, the bottom line is that there are far too many total idiots of every generation out there waiting to kill and maim every day
No doubt in my mind thatthe standard of driving has declined in the last 10-15 years or so, and in my mind (based on no evidence whatsoever) that corresponds almost perfectly with the advent of smart phones.
However, I will say that even the standards of driving I see on the south end of the M1 are an order of magnitude better than the standard of driving on any major road in the US.
No doubt in my mind thatthe standard of driving has declined in the last 10-15 years or so, and in my mind (based on no evidence whatsoever) that corresponds almost perfectly with the advent of smart phones.
However, I will say that even the standards of driving I see on the south end of the M1 are an order of magnitude better than the standard of driving on any major road in the US.
I've certainly got slower as my years advance (passed in 77), gone are the days of me going well over 100, tend to max @ 80 going uphill & 90 going down the other side on the M6.As for comments in previous posts about 'old drivers', I don't think my driving style has changed since when I passed my test at 18 in 1973.
The first one is actually very dangerous, particularly when they don't even aim for a gap, instead continuing into the main carriageway regardless of whether this is going to result into crashing into a load of trucks.For me my biggest issue is following somebody on the slip road who is trying to join 70mph traffic at 40mph rather than match the speed of the traffic they're joining.
Second pet hate is when I'm trying to overtake a slower vehicle (when I'm doing 70mph) and you've got people tailgating because you're not going fast enough. I don't speed normally, i put the cruise on 70 and leave it at that however occasionally I'll slip up to 75/80 briefly to get out the way due to the above, but you can do 80mph and still be the slowest on the road. It's mad!
My 3rd pet hate is when you catch up to somebody doing 60 or so, so you go for an overtake at 70, but they don't want to be overtaken so speed up to 75 and you end up merging behind them. Bizzare.
Whereas I hate people who don't blip past. Its something I particularly dont like about average speed cameras. You can't really blip past lorries and spend ages in the danger area, and those overtaking you take ages about it.Second pet hate is when I'm trying to overtake a slower vehicle (when I'm doing 70mph) and you've got people tailgating because you're not going fast enough. I don't speed normally, i put the cruise on 70 and leave it at that however occasionally I'll slip up to 75/80 briefly to get out the way due to the above,
I think thats often a reaction to speed drift from lack of concentration (particularly when chatting). Seeing you start to overtake makes them check their speed and realise they have started to dawdle, with the reaction being to accelerate to their intended cruising speed.My 3rd pet hate is when you catch up to somebody doing 60 or so, so you go for an overtake at 70, but they don't want to be overtaken so speed up to 75 and you end up merging behind them. Bizzare.
I have been on motorways where lane one is moving faster than the other lanes. Especially the M25 where people are reluctant to use lane one because it spilts of at a lot of junctions. Am a obliged to drive more slowly than the traffic in lane two?In what way is the previous poster’s driving arrogant? Whilst the safety aspects of undertaking are certainly debatable, he is well within his rights to be irritated at having to cross from lane 1 to 3 and back to pass someone who is incorrectly positioned.
And if it was a two-lane road then what is he supposed to do? Sit there all day and effectively form a roadblock?
I remember Andy Parsons talking about middle lane hogging. His suggested approach was to overtake in lane three, go back to lane one, slow down, let the lane two person overtake and then keep repeating the process, going in circles around them. Made me laugh.I personally find doing 1-3-1 quite enjoyable. Best done in the most perfect way possible with correct spacing and indication to be as smugly sanctimonious as possible.
Sometimes even wakes them up!
Worth noting though that if traffic is moving in queues staying in lane is the correct approach.
Then on day two, they learn it should really be Mirror, Blind Spot, Signal, Mirror, Blind Spot, Manoeuvre. That doesn't roll off the tongue so well though!Mirror, signal, manoeuvre. A pretty basic term that everyone learns on day one. Too basic for you probably.