My suggestion for train companies to ensure seats are provided during disruption as with airlines

[Northhighland]

Moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-hst-introduction-updates-discussion.137911/page-274

regularly fly from Inverness to London Gatwick using the Easyjet service.

That is the last flight for that plane every day and is regularly disrupted by things that are not Easyjet's fault. Their staff never whine incessantly about other airlines, always get you back to Inverness with a seat. Usually for the same price or less as a return to Glasgow on the train.

There is a real need for change. Continue to shoot the messenger, it won't change the facts.

 

[InOban]

By all means criticise ScotRail, but not in this case, except that the staff at Perth should have told LNER that there was no room on their service. Even if LNER had to pay for every taxi in the Perth area, the most SR should have offered should have been to accommodate those travelling to intermediate stations. After all LNER had several hours warning. I'm sure that SR would have given them the phone numbers of the coach companies they use almost every day.

 

[RLBH]

I get the LNER / Scotrail issue. But given that there was three hours notice of this event, it is reasonable to expect something to have been sorted. It is tiresome to see the excuses trotted out on here. I regularly fly to London form Inverness using the Easyjet Gatwick service. That is the last flight for that plane every day and is regularly disrupted by things that are not Easyjets fault. Their staff never whine incessantly about other airlines, always get you back to Inverness with a seat. Usually for the same price or less as a return to Glasgow on the train.

If British Airways cancelled their flight to Inverness and told all the passengers to get on the Easyjet one, I think it's safe to say that Easyjet would be pretty miffed, and certainly wouldn't put on an extra aircraft to cover BA's issues.

Whether LNER should have provided a working train, coaches, taxis or a really big catapult when the Highland Chieftain encountered problems isn't really Scotrail's problem to fix. They could be part of the solution, but the onus is on LNER to come up with it.

It doesn't really matter what stock Scotrail are running, even a five-car HST (once they show up) would struggle with its' own passengers plus those from the Chieftain. It's hard to see what Scotrail could have done, short of timewarping to pre-Beeching days and rustling up half a dozen antiquated coaches and a locomotive from a siding somewhere to form a special.

For what it's worth, the last time I got dumped at Perth due to a failure, Scotrail were pretty good with getting coaches sorted.

 

[Northhighland]

If British Airways cancelled their flight to Inverness and told all the passengers to get on the Easyjet one, I think it's safe to say that Easyjet would be pretty miffed, and certainly wouldn't put on an extra aircraft to cover BA's issues.

Whether LNER should have provided a working train, coaches, taxis or a really big catapult when the Highland Chieftain encountered problems isn't really Scotrail's problem to fix. They could be part of the solution, but the onus is on LNER to come up with it.

It doesn't really matter what stock Scotrail are running, even a five-car HST (once they show up) would struggle with its' own passengers plus those from the Chieftain. It's hard to see what Scotrail could have done, short of timewarping to pre-Beeching days and rustling up half a dozen antiquated coaches and a locomotive from a siding somewhere to form a special.

For what it's worth, the last time I got dumped at Perth due to a failure, Scotrail were pretty good with getting coaches sorted.

IF BA cancelled their flight and there was space on the EasyJet then yes it would happen. Airlines do work together when they need too. LNER wouldn't have any staff at Perth station to organise alternatives. Scotrail do have staff and ones that have done this fairly regularly in the past. Remember as well all the passengers on this train are not all from London, a lot of local people use this train and many of them would be Scotrail passengers on other journeys.

My point lost on so many here is the attitude was it didn't matter that a whole lot of people would have to stand to Inverness a two hour journey. It didn't matter that that experience damages trust in the railway, irrespective who is to blame. The attitude is these things happen tough sh*t. It isn't good for tourism is the Highlands. It has np positives only negatives. But is clearly shows the attitude that prevails. But I am saying no more.

 

[David M]

The attitude is these things happen tough sh*t.

Surely the attitude is Scotrail have done our best to assist LNER in a time of difficulty?

 

[Highland37]

What's this got to do with the introduction of HSTs?

 

[Killingworth]

What's this got to do with the introduction of HSTs?

Nothing, the issue could have arisen if the Scotrail train were a 170, 158, HST - or a Pacer if they had them, as we get if we're lucky in such situations!

I'm envious that Aberdeen and Inverness get HSTs at all. Between cities with much bigger populations in England we're lucky to get a few 4 coach 158s, 3 (occasionally 6) coach 185s and a mix of old 142, 150/156 units for an hour long journey. On Monday morning the 4 coach was cancelled. The next was 3 coaches which is always standing room only, followed by a Pacer. Many went to get cars. It's not just a Scotrail/LNER issue. New thread please.

 

[Maxfly]

IF BA cancelled their flight and there was space on the EasyJet then yes it would happen. Airlines do work together when they need too. LNER wouldn't have any staff at Perth station to organise alternatives. Scotrail do have staff and ones that have done this fairly regularly in the past. Remember as well all the passengers on this train are not all from London, a lot of local people use this train and many of them would be Scotrail passengers on other journeys.

My point lost on so many here is the attitude was it didn't matter that a whole lot of people would have to stand to Inverness a two hour journey. It didn't matter that that experience damages trust in the railway, irrespective who is to blame. The attitude is these things happen tough sh*t. It isn't good for tourism is the Highlands. It has np positives only negatives. But is clearly shows the attitude that prevails. But I am saying no more.

Right so your saying, if there was space it would happen between airline??? So if say, easyJet has no space then you accept it wouldn’t happen?
Tbh that sound pretty similar to the railway, generally if there is space operators will accept other operators passengers during disruption, if they can. Is the original complaint not due to ScotRail refusing LNER’s passengers but agreeing to help out but the end result of trying to get everyone home was severe overcrowding?
Of course sets are ‘idle’ at that time of night, getting ready for start of service next day. ScotRail are not exactly overburdened with spare units so would you rather booked maintenance was dropped so reliability suffers even more or a Set was not available for start of work the next day all of which ends up with more passenger suffering. You appear to have all the complaints but little common sense on how to run things correctly, I firmly believe if you ran ScotRail there would be a greater detriment to the travelling public than there currently is.

 

[scotrail158713]

IF BA cancelled their flight and there was space on the EasyJet then yes it would happen. Airlines do work together when they need too.

How does that work? I can see how it’s easy(ish) to do with trains, but with airport security how can you get through Luton, for example, with a ticket from Heathrow to Inverness? It just seems like a system that could go badly wrong if everything doesn’t go to plan.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very, very rarely do you get a reroute on another airline. Pretty much never between a low-cost and a legacy airline.

Even if you have a full fare economy ticket on a legacy airline, which is based on an IATA fare that is interavailable like an Anytime ticket, you have to argue for a reroute.

 

[scotrail158713]

Ok. I did think I’d never heard of it happening before - thought it must be rare.

 

[johnnychips]

I think it probably happens between established ‘flag carrier’ airways, who routinely overbook because they know that usually a certain percentage of booked passengers don’t show, then help each other if they do. Low cost airlines, as far as I know, don’t overbook. My mate got ‘bumped ‘ off a BA flight from Geneva to Heathrow and was offered a Swiss flight an hour later with £150 on a preloaded debit card. Naturally he bit their hands off.

 

[Bassman]

Having lived in the North for over forty five years, I know that folk here have been used to weathering the difficulties of transport for all sorts of reasons - partly because of weather and of also vulnerable infrastructure. The HML is a good example, when problems happen, the impact snowballs, particularly due to single track working, with repercussions on other trains and significant delays, overcrowding or replacement buses or even taxis from Perth to Inverness or onwards ( if you are lucky)!

The problem lies in weak infrastructure and chronic lack of strategic long term thinking and investment. To compete with air, we need long term carbon neutral solutions for increased reliability, faster connections at reasonable prices. The HST provides a useful and upgrade in the interim, if they can be made reliable.

My simple comparison is with the North of Sweden (with towns of equivalent size to the North of Scotland) with new medium/high speed electric railway lines, new trains, and transport hubs, building in more reliability for cold weather and reducing times of connection.

I welcome the HST introduction but ask that we take long term planning seriously in what comes next in improving strategic transport connections.

 

[AlterEgo]

How does that work? I can see how it’s easy(ish) to do with trains, but with airport security how can you get through Luton, for example, with a ticket from Heathrow to Inverness? It just seems like a system that could go badly wrong if everything doesn’t go to plan.

The airline rebooks you and gives you a new ticket. It's not as rare in the grand scheme of things as @Bletchleyite suggests - I reckon there are thousands every day, although it is very unusual between a low cost airline and a legacy one.

The analogy from the OP doesn't work out anyway.