National Express Coaches Discussion

[route101]

Blackpool has Birmingham and Hull but not a through London service.

 

[Simon75]

Blackpool used to have a Stoke-on-Trent to Derby service, but think that went years ago

 

[markymark2000]

Blackpool never had this many services before. It's now on 7 departures per day. Of which, 2 just go to Manchester City, 3 to Manchester City, Manchester Airport and Birmingham, 2 go Manchester City, Bradford and Leeds with 1 of those continuing to Hull.

7 NatEx departures is a lot for Blackpool. Past timetables that I can find for 2017/18 suggest 5 departures per day with them all heading south towards Birmingham. Some then going to Bristol and South Coast, others to London. Nothing cross pennines.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Slightly surprised they don't have a Glasgow. Blackpool is classically popular with Scots.

Probably little point going across the Pennines, wouldn't Yorkshire residents prefer to head for Whitby, Scarborough, Cleethorpes etc?

 

[Ken H]

Slightly surprised they don't have a Glasgow. Blackpool is classically popular with Scots.

Probably little point going across the Pennines, wouldn't Yorkshire residents prefer to head for Whitby, Scarborough, Cleethorpes etc?

If you dig back into old pre NBC bus timetables there was a well established Yorkshire Blackpool offering. The Yorkshire companies & Ribble worked together and the services had J numbers. They dug out anything that could run in the high summer especially for the mill holiday weeks. And in Leeds despatched them from waste ground carports on Saturdays.
You can see these services in timetables on Timetable World. Going back to pre WW2!

 

[Llandudno]

Slightly surprised they don't have a Glasgow. Blackpool is classically popular with Scots.

Probably little point going across the Pennines, wouldn't Yorkshire residents prefer to head for Whitby, Scarborough, Cleethorpes etc?

Blackpool Promotions/Tartan Travel run coaches to Blackpool from Glasgow every Monday and Friday, although not offering coach only travel they regularly offer some incredibly cheap coach package holidays starting from £69 for return coach travel and three/four nights hotel accommodation!

 

[markymark2000]

Slightly surprised they don't have a Glasgow. Blackpool is classically popular with Scots.

That's normally provided in the summer season by Scottish Citylink. The route would seem popular though with Blackpool Promotions, Blackpool Breaks/Breaks2Go and Caledonian travel all offering at least weekly hotel and coach travel packages from stop throughout Scotland. It's not just Scotland too but the North East seems to be a lot of people wanting to head towards Blackpool. I do wonder why National Express hasn't tried to take on some of this market. The passenger sorts their hotel and NatEx just provides the travel (as per how most holidays work). I do feel like there could be some potential too for a kind of day trip thing if they timed that up. Get to Blackpool for say 11am, coach continues onto Manchester or something to maximise the Scotland-Manchester passenger markets. Return with a pickup from Blackpool around 7.30-9pm back up to Scotland.

Spoiler: List of stops for Blackpool Promotions coaches

East Midlands: Burton Upon Trent, Derby, Leicester, Northampton, Nottingham.
North East: Durham, Hartlepool, Newcastle, Northumberland and Washington.
Scotland: Alloa, Ayr, Bathgate, Cumbernauld, Dundee, Dunfermline, East Kilbride, Edinburgh, Falkirk, Glasgow, Glenrothes, Gretna-Green, Hamilton, Irvine, Kilmarnock, Kirkcaldy, Motherwell, Paisley, Perth and Stirling.
West Midlands: Birmingham, Coventry, Solihull, Stoke and Wolverhampton.
Yorkshire: Barnsley, Bradford, Doncaster, Huddersfield, Hull, Leeds, Rotherham, Harrogate, and Wakefield.

Spoiler: List of stops for Blackpool Breaks coaches

Scotland: Alloa, Ayr, Bathgate, Cumbernauld, Dundee, Dunfermline, East Kilbride, Edinburgh, Falkirk, Glasgow, Glenrothes, Gretna, Hamilton, Irvine, Kilmarnock, Kirkcaldy, Motherwell, Paisley, Stirling
North East: Newcastle, Gateshead, Heworth, Washington Galleries, Chester Le Street, Durham, Tudhoe Colliery, Spennymoor, Bishop Auckland, West Auckland, Staindrop, Barnard Castle, Bowes
Other areas offering coach packages but travel is on National Express

Probably little point going across the Pennines, wouldn't Yorkshire residents prefer to head for Whitby, Scarborough, Cleethorpes etc?

The above lists seem to suggest that there is demand from Yorkshire as Blackpool Promotions run such coaches.

 

[johncrossley]

Certainly in the 80s and 90s, coach firms from all over the north used to do day excursions to Blackpool. They would typically arrive about 11 am and leave about 6 pm. Hardly anyone used National Express.

 

[pitdiver]

Wen I worked for NX at Milton Keynes Coachway we wold have a service going to Blackpool every morning that had come from VCS always well loaded and that would be a "Dekka"

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There is more family connections between North Wales and Liverpool but given the distance, most people would get the train instead. Why get bogged down to a once per day coach when you can get a train every 15 minutes to Chester and change onto a half hourly (or so) train onwards. I've seen a good few 'drivers sheets' for NatEx on the 175 service and the loadings are more Manchester to Liverpool and Manchester to North Wales. Not as much Liverpool to North Wales. Add to that, who wants to be getting to their hotel at 7pm? People want to be there for midday to spend an hour before checking in and then dump the bags and go out. For coming home, who wants picking up at 9.30. That's still breakfast time for many. The 175 is ran from the wrong end of the route really but sadly the demand isn't there to make it a twice per day service. Even with the ongoing rail strikes, there is loads of capacity available. At least 19 seats available for tomorrow (Saturday 7th Sept). It won't let me try to book more than that but 19 seats available is bonkers. Fully booked though from Liverpool to Manchester.
Those 'Cultural' connections you speak of. I don't think county lines drug dealers like paying for fares and so prefer to freeload on the train rather than paying up for the coach. They are the main people travelling from North Wales to Liverpool! Biggest county lines in the UK I believe.


The only benefit of NatEx versus train was stopping outside some of the resorts but that also meant there were far too many stops. Between Llandudno and Talacre, there were 18 stops. That's a hell of a lot for NatEx. NatEx want faster buses with less stops. Seaside towns as a whole aren't really that big of a thing for National Express, they don't seem to want that market. It's only since Covid that Blackpool had only gained a half decent service and that is an extremely popular town for northerners going for time away.

I mean, Chester, a tourist hotspot city with 10k students, they can't be bothered providing any meaningful service there, what hope do dying seaside resorts have? Rhyls 'season' is now reduced as well to what seems like around 3 months. Mid June, July, August and Mid September. It's not viable to run a service via these areas (bearing in mind the huge time penalty) for such little gain.

I don't about County Lines but, as someone who used to work for National Express, the North Wales market was historically a decent market from Easter through to end Sep. Rhyl may not be your choice (or mine) but from Liverpool, it most certainly was/is. Hence the raft of holiday camps from Talacre through to Abergele. Certainly, summer Saturdays were a busy market throughout the high season with dupes through to Pensarn. For that demographic, the coach was certainly the preferred choice rather than the train. With pressure on domestic budgets, I'm not surprised that the option of a week in North Wales and cheap coach travel and being taken to almost the front door is why the route is returning in 2023.

Chester is similar to York. A relatively upmarket holiday destination so not really the same demographic.

Slightly surprised they don't have a Glasgow. Blackpool is classically popular with Scots.

Probably little point going across the Pennines, wouldn't Yorkshire residents prefer to head for Whitby, Scarborough, Cleethorpes etc?

If you want to know where people (usually demographics D and E) go on holiday by coach (in general - these were the main flows)....

• East Midlands go to Skegness
• Greater Glasgow go to Blackpool
• West Midlands go to either Weston super Mare or Rhyl (or Minehead at a push)
• Mancs go to Blackpool or Scarborough
• Londoners go to Great Yarmouth (Hemsby) or Brighton for a day trip
• North East go to Blackpool
• Leeds to Scarborough/Bridlington

National Express traditionally didn't have the North East to Blackpool routes historically - that was firms such as Primrose and possibly OK.

Whilst the UK coach market has changed in the last 20 years, and resorts have declined, I'd contend that those flows still hold relatively true. One flow that has really died was when Butlins at Pwllheli closed to be replaced by a Haven caravan park - used to send deckers there on a Summer Saturday. The stuff of legend!!

Wen I worked for NX at Milton Keynes Coachway we wold have a service going to Blackpool every morning that had come from VCS always well loaded and that would be a "Dekka"

When I worked for NX, it was fairly good for Glasgow to Blackpool and then we had the old Fairs Fortnight that, again much reduced and less observed, still led to some big spikes in demand

 

[pitdiver]

I don't about County Lines but, as someone who used to work for National Express, the North Wales market was historically a decent market from Easter through to end Sep. Rhyl may not be your choice (or mine) but from Liverpool, it most certainly was/is. Hence the raft of holiday camps from Talacre through to Abergele. Certainly, summer Saturdays were a busy market throughout the high season with dupes through to Pensarn. For that demographic, the coach was certainly the preferred choice rather than the train. With pressure on domestic budgets, I'm not surprised that the option of a week in North Wales and cheap coach travel and being taken to almost the front door is why the route is returning in 2023.

Chester is similar to York. A relatively upmarket holiday destination so not really the same demographic.



If you want to know where people (usually demographics D and E) go on holiday by coach (in general - these were the main flows)....

• East Midlands go to Skegness
• Greater Glasgow go to Blackpool
• West Midlands go to either Weston super Mare or Rhyl (or Minehead at a push)
• Mancs go to Blackpool or Scarborough
• Londoners go to Great Yarmouth (Hemsby) or Brighton for a day trip
• North East go to Blackpool
• Leeds to Scarborough/Bridlington

National Express traditionally didn't have the North East to Blackpool routes historically - that was firms such as Primrose and possibly OK.

Whilst the UK coach market has changed in the last 20 years, and resorts have declined, I'd contend that those flows still hold relatively true. One flow that has really died was when Butlins at Pwllheli closed to be replaced by a Haven caravan park - used to send deckers there on a Summer Saturday. The stuff of legend!!

I live in the East Midlands in an ex mining village. We have photos of lines of coaches ready to take our miners to Skegness for their annual holiday. Mablethorpe was another option. I have been to both, not an experience I would want to repeat. But each to their own.

 

[GusB]

I've copied the discussion about historic National Express routes to a new thread - please continue the memory lane stuff there, please, and keep this one for more current matters.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/historic-national-express-routes.241710/

 

[markymark2000]

I don't about County Lines but, as someone who used to work for National Express, the North Wales market was historically a decent market from Easter through to end Sep. Rhyl may not be your choice (or mine) but from Liverpool, it most certainly was/is. Hence the raft of holiday camps from Talacre through to Abergele. Certainly, summer Saturdays were a busy market throughout the high season with dupes through to Pensarn. For that demographic, the coach was certainly the preferred choice rather than the train. With pressure on domestic budgets, I'm not surprised that the option of a week in North Wales and cheap coach travel and being taken to almost the front door is why the route is returning in 2023.

2021 and 2022 were HUGE years for travel to North Wales though and yet the service NatEx provides was kept as running from the wrong end and nothing was done to capitalise on the market. In June 2021, I did a little bit of research and I found 50 over 3 months coach day trips from Manchester to Llandudno. 50! Plus another 20 from Liverpool to Llandudno. This is just day trips, any coach and hotel breaks are not included. Trains were ram packed as well yet NatEx plods along with the generally useless 175 as most people are completely unaware that it exists as NatEx don't advertise locally nor did they try the route get from the Manchester end which would have significantly changed the amount of people on the route.

Even now, it could be argued there is decent demand to try something with Caelloi and Arvonia manage to run roughly 3 buses per month from Pwllheli/Caernarfon/Bangor and Llandudno to Liverpool and around 2 per month to Chester for day trips. That is pretty much year round. Then you've got the full trains along the coast during the summer. If companies are running this many day trips, there is clearly day demand, demand for people actually travelling in that direction. If people do this many day trips, the appetite for short breaks will be there too. Adding to that, the reverse patronage from inland, to the coast during the summer season. North Wales has huge potential but it won't be exploited with NatEx as it's not on the core corridor so they don't care. It has to say a lot for NatEx in North Wales when they are selling Llandudno to Liverpool ticket for £3 and £5 to Manchester and they are still so quiet.


For your points regarding the historically having good demand Easter - September, that was before Rhyl died off. The only people going there now are drug dealers and families who are going just because "that's where they always went". The vast majority of people aren't going to Rhyl anymore. The seasonal stuff is opening in mid June and shutting in mid September, the season just isn't as big as it used to be. Llandudno seems to be the "go to" place now.

National Express traditionally didn't have the North East to Blackpool routes historically - that was firms such as Primrose and possibly OK.

They still don't have their own North East to Blackpool service. They just resell tickets for JH Coaches B66 service.

 

[jammy36]

National Express have announced the merger of their existing coach holidays and tours businesses under one brand: Touromo (www.touromo.com)

This will replace the various acquired brands under which the group’s holiday and day trips used to be offered. The brands being replaced were acquired with the takeover of Lucketts Travel Group in 2020 (Lucketts Travel, Coliseum Coaches, Worthing Coaches, Solent Coaches and Mortons Travel) & Stewarts Travel Group in 2018 (Stewarts Tours & Woods Coaches).

The previous web-sites for these various companies now have redirect holding pages forwarding customers to either the new Touromo website (for holidays and tours) or National Express Travel Solutions (for coach hire and business).

This may explain why recently delivered Mercedes-Benz Tourismo coaches have been delivered in plain white.

---
see

Touromo takes coach tours to the next level

Touromo takes coach tours to the next level

www.nationalexpressgroup.com

UK holiday makers will have more choice in 2023 with the announcement of a new name in travel.

High-quality short breaks and special-interest day trips across the UK and Europe are now available from Touromo - a brand new coach holiday company in the UK leisure market.

Backed by National Express, Touromo brings together seven local coach travel brands and their decades of proud heritage and expertise to provide a best-in-class coach holiday experience under a single name.

John Boughton, managing director of Touromo, said: “We have ambitious plans to become a major player in the UK coach holiday sector and the creation of Touromo means we can operate on a national scale.

“There is a strong demand for holidays and day trips and we know that customers are looking for more choice in the way they can travel but don’t want to compromise on quality or comfort. Touromo will allow us to enhance the breadth of our offering while still giving travellers the assurance of the great holiday experience you get from a trusted and experienced leisure travel provider.”

The UK public will be able to spot the new brand on vehicles and drivers out on the road from this month. The significant investment also includes a multi-channel marketing and advertising campaign with direct mail, social media and a TV commercial.

With hundreds of short breaks and day trips departing from across the Midlands and South of England, each Touromo holiday is carefully designed by a team of travel experts with convenience and complete relaxation in mind. From the moment they’re picked-up from home*, customers can expect the highest standards of service and comfort on board, with reclining leather seats and ample legroom, air-conditioning and all the mod cons including free wifi and USB charging.

For more information see www.touromo.com or check out the new TV commercial.

 

[GusB]

This may explain why recently delivered Mercedes-Benz Tourismo coaches have been delivered in plain white.

"Travel on a Tourismo with Touromo"

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting that that includes the "big clrcle, little circle" branding that was on the previous version of the National Express logo (and I thought looked more modern than the current one).

 

[Simon75]

How many depots does the coach side now own?

 

[fgwrich]

Having seen the press release and branded vehicle, what a bland, drab, and instantly forgettable brand. It'll be a real shame to see some of the well established and reputable names be confined to the bin in favour of well, this. Certainly in this town Mortons always had a very highly regarded reputation.

 

[pitdiver]

Doesn't that sum up NX in a nutshell?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having seen the press release and branded vehicle, what a bland, drab, and instantly forgettable brand. It'll be a real shame to see some of the well established and reputable names be confined to the bin in favour of well, this. Certainly in this town Mortons always had a very highly regarded reputation.

It is interesting that local branding appears to carry a lot of weight in coaching circles, a very common approach is to still use the old name but in a common livery and style (e.g. all the Procters owned operations).

 

[M803UYA]

It is interesting that local branding appears to carry a lot of weight in coaching circles, a very common approach is to still use the old name but in a common livery and style (e.g. all the Procters owned operations).

I've noticed that. Travellers Choice is another operator using local names on a standard livery. York Pullman don't - there's a main fleet and then vehicles in traditional liveries, but backed up by a main fleet in YP livery which is rather attractive.

Presumably National Express are thinking of incidences where Clarkes vehicles are working with Lucketts and Mortons in Clarkes livery. I can see a time where they conclude there is a need for a standard livery. Lucketts is primarily white so might be the 'easiest' one to adopt!

 

[Deerfold]

It is interesting that local branding appears to carry a lot of weight in coaching circles, a very common approach is to still use the old name but in a common livery and style (e.g. all the Procters owned operations).

The coach company in the village I grew up in was bought out. The buyer kept a couple of coaches in their livery and kept their phone number on a redirect.

The company that bought *them* kept at least one coach in the livery, but did drop the phone number. Unfortunately after a while they went into administration.

 

[Titfield]

The coach company in the village I grew up in was bought out. The buyer kept a couple of coaches in their livery and kept their phone number on a redirect.

The company that bought *them* kept at least one coach in the livery, but did drop the phone number. Unfortunately after a while they went into administration.

Indeed the name of the operator ( I hesitate to call it a brand for all but the largest companies) was so very important because customer loyalty to a particular coach operator was very high. Many customers / passengers would only use one operator year in year out. Tom Maclachlans two volumes on Grey Green highlights why George Ewer (the owner of Grey Green) kept the Orange Luxury Coach, Fallowfield and Britten and other acquired companies names and liveries for many many years only dropping some of the names in the 1970s and 1980s when the business (indeed many coach companies business) had shrunk dramatically rendering the retention of all the names / liveries somewhat pointless.

 

[fgwrich]

I've noticed that. Travellers Choice is another operator using local names on a standard livery. York Pullman don't - there's a main fleet and then vehicles in traditional liveries, but backed up by a main fleet in YP livery which is rather attractive.

Presumably National Express are thinking of incidences where Clarkes vehicles are working with Lucketts and Mortons in Clarkes livery. I can see a time where they conclude there is a need for a standard livery. Lucketts is primarily white so might be the 'easiest' one to adopt!

I must admit I've not seen any Morton's branded vehicles at any other operators (or Mortons branding on another livery base) yet, other than an odd vehicle with Lucketts, but anything is possible under NX. Certainly the announcement has caused some disappointment around here - and I still wonder why they've chosen such a bland, forgettable name. Equally - they've taken the somewhat irritating Arriva approach by branding this as Touromo by National Express.

 

[Titfield]

How is Touromo pronounced?

Is it (1) 2 euro mo (2) Tour omo (3) 2 romo

I am not even sure if the name has any meaning unless it means that the coach tour is one man operated .

 

[padbus]

How is Touromo pronounced?

Is it (1) 2 euro mo (2) Tour omo (3) 2 romo

I am not even sure if the name has any meaning unless it means that the coach tour is one man operated .

I hope no money was spent on coming up with that name.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I hope no money was spent on coming up with that name.

It sounds a bit like the brief was "make me something that sounds like Tourismo but doesn't breach the trademark".

 

[londonbridge]

Huge Kudos to National Express. I booked a journey this morning on the restricted non-refundable, non-amendable fare. Confirmation email came in and saw I’d booked the wrong day! Immediately phoned customer services and they agreed to cancel it without charge and let me rebook the correct ticket, partly in view of the fact that I’d spotted my error and informed them immediately. Been a semi-regular customer for years but this is excellent customer service.

 

[route101]

Huge Kudos to National Express. I booked a journey this morning on the restricted non-refundable, non-amendable fare. Confirmation email came in and saw I’d booked the wrong day! Immediately phoned customer services and they agreed to cancel it without charge and let me rebook the correct ticket, partly in view of the fact that I’d spotted my error and informed them immediately. Been a semi-regular customer for years but this is excellent customer service.

I get the impression NX are a bit more flexible with tickets, if there is space they will let you on.

 

[Smethwickian]

I get the impression NX are a bit more flexible with tickets, if there is space they will let you on.

That is in no way to be relied upon, as it is against the vast majority of ticket types' T&C's, and drivers are entitled not to accept tickets booked for other times. If a ticket is amendable it should be amended before the journey time, paying the appropriate amendment fee.