National Express Coaches Discussion

[markymark2000]

However, there are size and weight limits on all vehicles as regards the wheelchair lift and wheelchair space which can be an issue with, how can I put this delicately, the combination of a larger customer and larger powered chair. Also, not all battery types (when it comes to powered chairs and buggies) can be carried, whether onboard or stowed underneath. Even different versions of Levantes have slightly different sized wheelchair spaces.

In some of these cases, could the issue not be solved by giving more information online? Despite having the accessibility page on the website, there isn't really much information there other than constant begging to contact them for more details. Such things as listing only 'most popular accessible stops', shouldn't it be a case of all stops which are accessible are listed or, the better option given the list would be much shorter, list all of the inaccessible stops. You could even put the details on the route map or put helpful information in other areas. If certain batteries can't be carried, that should be listed prior to booking.
As for the size of the spaces, that is interesting and something that I didn't know. It surely wouldn't hurt for them to say 'we can accommodate [x] size wheelchairs on all of our coaches and we can accommodate [y] size wheelchairs on some of our coaches, if your chair is larger than size X but smaller than size Y, please let us know so that we can accommodate you.

If NatEx gave people enough information, without firstly trying to demand they pre book assistance, separately to booking the normal travel (on their accessibility page, you pass the phone number for assisted travel 6 times before you even get to the code of practise which gives some information on what they will accept), then there wouldn't have such big email box as everyone would have the information in front of them on what can/can't be accepted. Forcing (or implying) pre booking just makes the whole experience more burdensome.

Having notes on the booking chart and journey plan that a passenger with additional needs is booked will also help in the event of disruption because, again, accessibility can already be factored in if replacement vehicles or taxis end up being arranged by controllers.

It may help but given a wheelchair user can just turn up and go as long as the wheelchair space is available (including moving seats if needed), that doesn't really work as a wheelchair user can turn up on the day, buy a ticket with the driver and as long as the chair complies with the rules, they would pretty much have to take the passenger.

The law requires reasonable adjustments be made to provide accessibility, and it does not seem entirely unreasonable that the company tries to avoid the risk of delay or inconvenience to passengers if adjustments or alternative arrangements have to be made without prior warning.

The DVSA suggests otherwise and suggest it's not reasonable adjustments, it's a case of, as long as no one will be forced off the coach and and as long as the space isn't taken by another wheelchair user (which is a risk but could be overcome by a quick 'I have a wheelchair' button on the booking engine and that reserves the wheelchair space), the passenger and their wheelchair should be accommodated of course in compliance with any other health and safety rules such as wheelchair space and type of chair/scooter though this could be easily highlighted to anyone prior to travel without having to call up an assistance team. Give people the tools they need rather than forcing them to call a specific team.

DVSA response to a freedom of information request (https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/502865/response/1207872/attach/html/5/Annex A.docx.html)

Coach operators reminded of the rights of passengers who use wheelchairs
Coach operators will face tough action if they don’t comply with the law on the use of wheelchairs in vehicles, warned the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) today (11 July 2018).
The key requirements are:
 to ensure that wheelchair users can use available* wheelchair spaces, including those that require the removal, folding or tipping of other seats; and
 not to require passengers who use wheelchairs to book any further in advance than passengers who don’t.
Simply put, if a wheelchair space is available wheelchair users must be able to use it, even if they buy a ticket on the day.

 

[Mwanesh]

In some of these cases, could the issue not be solved by giving more information online? Despite having the accessibility page on the website, there isn't really much information there other than constant begging to contact them for more details. Such things as listing only 'most popular accessible stops', shouldn't it be a case of all stops which are accessible are listed or, the better option given the list would be much shorter, list all of the inaccessible stops. You could even put the details on the route map or put helpful information in other areas. If certain batteries can't be carried, that should be listed prior to booking.
As for the size of the spaces, that is interesting and something that I didn't know. It surely wouldn't hurt for them to say 'we can accommodate [x] size wheelchairs on all of our coaches and we can accommodate [y] size wheelchairs on some of our coaches, if your chair is larger than size X but smaller than size Y, please let us know so that we can accommodate you.

If NatEx gave people enough information, without firstly trying to demand they pre book assistance, separately to booking the normal travel (on their accessibility page, you pass the phone number for assisted travel 6 times before you even get to the code of practise which gives some information on what they will accept), then there wouldn't have such big email box as everyone would have the information in front of them on what can/can't be accepted. Forcing (or implying) pre booking just makes the whole experience more burdensome.


It may help but given a wheelchair user can just turn up and go as long as the wheelchair space is available (including moving seats if needed), that doesn't really work as a wheelchair user can turn up on the day, buy a ticket with the driver and as long as the chair complies with the rules, they would pretty much have to take the passenger.


The DVSA suggests otherwise and suggest it's not reasonable adjustments, it's a case of, as long as no one will be forced off the coach and and as long as the space isn't taken by another wheelchair user (which is a risk but could be overcome by a quick 'I have a wheelchair' button on the booking engine and that reserves the wheelchair space), the passenger and their wheelchair should be accommodated of course in compliance with any other health and safety rules such as wheelchair space and type of chair/scooter though this could be easily highlighted to anyone prior to travel without having to call up an assistance team. Give people the tools they need rather than forcing them to call a specific team.

DVSA response to a freedom of information request (https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/502865/response/1207872/attach/html/5/Annex A.docx.html)

The problem with wheelchair turn up and go is that it's only good for Express routes not multi stop services. I have worked on coaches since 2011 and in that time I have had about 2 wheelchairs. Once with Megabus and once with National Express. It's easy if its pre booked and you do priority boarding. At London Victoria they do priority wheelchair boarding. You know how the bays are at that place

 

[dlj83]

I’ve recently started using NX between Canterbury and London and the limit of free Wi-Fi is 40mb.

Are there any plans to increase it and is this the same limit nationally?

 

[gray1404]

Less then 48 hours before travel now and still not heard back from National Express by email so it's going to have to be a phone call to their call centre tomorrow. Hopefully not a long wait on the phone.

 

[route101]

Less then 48 hours before travel now and still not heard back from National Express by email so it's going to have to be a phone call to their call centre tomorrow. Hopefully not a long wait on the phone.

Whats the issue?

 

[GusB]

Whats the issue?

I presume it's referring to this post:

Brighton services
1. Yet they do not need to accept concessionary passes on the "local route" by virtue of the fact seats can be reserved.

2. Liverpool to Edinburgh services
Is it true these will be stopping shortly?

3. Assistance Request Response Time
I've been informed that NX are replying to requests for assistance in date order of travel and they aim to get back to you 2 days before your journey. Their online form reflects this.

This may sound good but that means you waiting a long time for confirmation if you request in advance and hear back last minute. Does this mean they are dealing with a lot of contacts at the moment?

 

[Titfield]

I have reason to go to Banbury soon and thought I would travel by coach from Bournemouth. Horrified to discover that the Bournemouth - Birmingham service no longer stops at Banbury en route and only operates twice a day.

I know NExp used to promote the vast number of destinations it served (without really focusing on frequency) but I am beginning to wonder how small the overall business (passenger carryings) has become.

 

[Deerfold]

I have reason to go to Banbury soon and thought I would travel by coach from Bournemouth. Horrified to discover that the Bournemouth - Birmingham service no longer stops at Banbury en route and only operates twice a day.

I know NExp used to promote the vast number of destinations it served (without really focusing on frequency) but I am beginning to wonder how small the overall business (passenger carryings) has become.

I remember them advertising it as 2,000 destinations.

Then 1,500.

Then 1,200.

That was a while ago.

 

[riceuten]

Some years ago a driver was lost in getting from Victoria to the M1 and ended up going via Tower Bridge and Vauxhall

Sometimes coaches from Liverpool/Manchester/Stoke-on-Trent to London if non stop have gone via the M40 instead of the M1

Ha, I remember a coach driver from Manchester to London getting lost (this was pre Sat Nav) and us ending up on the edge of West London - he asked if anyone was familiar with the area and someone went and sat with him and guided him to Victoria

 

[Deerfold]

Ha, I remember a coach driver from Manchester to London getting lost (this was pre Sat Nav) and us ending up on the edge of West London - he asked if anyone was familiar with the area and someone went and sat with him and guided him to Victoria

A duplicate from London to Leeds managed to miss the entrance to Leeds Bus/Coach station and a couple of us guided the driver round the one way system so he could have another go.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I have reason to go to Banbury soon and thought I would travel by coach from Bournemouth. Horrified to discover that the Bournemouth - Birmingham service no longer stops at Banbury en route and only operates twice a day.

I know NExp used to promote the vast number of destinations it served (without really focusing on frequency) but I am beginning to wonder how small the overall business (passenger carryings) has become.

I remember them advertising it as 2,000 destinations.

Then 1,500.

Then 1,200.

That was a while ago.

From an FAQ on the National Express website, dated 2 Dec 2021:

Can I get a list of all the places you go?

We operate the UK's largest scheduled coach service to nearly 1,000 destinations daily. [...]

On the broader point of the National Express coach business, and of frequency versus destinations, the impression I have is that the pandemic hastened changes to the network that were perhaps likely in the pipeline anyway - and the focus is on offering more frequent routes rather than comprehensive coverage.

In fact I've just had a glance through the National Express Group PLC Annual Report 2022 (looking for mentions of the "UK coach" business), and these two excerpts seem to support that...

Page 29:

[...] we rebuilt and redesigned our UK Coach network to be more efficient delivering higher frequencies and faster journey times on key intercity routes, while reducing cost per passenger mile by 6% [...]

Page 41:

UK Coach delivered progressive year-on-year revenue growth with a strong recovery from March onwards. This was supported and driven by the dynamic rebuilding of the network to match new and emerging demand patterns to help deliver higher frequencies and faster journey times on key intercity routes.

 

[gray1404]

@route101 @GusB All sorted now. Had a reply from NX today. The agent explained they are working so close to departure at the moment in terms of getting back to people.

 

[Statto]

I have reason to go to Banbury soon and thought I would travel by coach from Bournemouth. Horrified to discover that the Bournemouth - Birmingham service no longer stops at Banbury en route and only operates twice a day.

I know NExp used to promote the vast number of destinations it served (without really focusing on frequency) but I am beginning to wonder how small the overall business (passenger carryings) has become.

Nothing in the way of coaches serve Banbury right now, i remember the overnight Blackpool - London service calling in at Banbury, no one ever boarded or alighted, & National Express dropped Banbury for Stratford Upon Avon as the calling point on that service

For Banbury might be coach to Oxford then Stagecoach S4 (which takes around 70 minutes), or the train from Oxford to Banbury.

 

[Titfield]

Nothing in the way of coaches serve Banbury right now, i remember the overnight Blackpool - London service calling in at Banbury, no one ever boarded or alighted, & National Express dropped Banbury for Stratford Upon Avon as the calling point on that service

For Banbury might be coach to Oxford then Stagecoach S4 (which takes around 70 minutes), or the train from Oxford to Banbury.

Thanks for the advice and memory. I am actually going to a hotel nearer Daventry and my original plan was to get to Banbury and then taxi from there. I try to use public transport in all its forms (train, bus, coach) but this one seems to be best by car. The price of taxis has gone through the roof.

I remember them advertising it as 2,000 destinations.

Then 1,500.

Then 1,200.

That was a while ago.

Donkeys years ago I worked for NExp (pre privatisation) and the number of destinations was truly amazing. We used to run a service from Bmth to London which from memory went Bournemouth, Boscombe, Christchurch, Lyndhurst, Southampton, Winchester, Basingstoke, Hartley Wintney, Hook, Camberley, Sunningdale, Staines and many more.

 

[route101]

There is still destinations to come back, not sure if we will see an uplift in new routes until next summer mind.

 

[gray1404]

Have the 550 Liverpool to London services started taking additional rest break stops? I'm on today's 1545 and we stopped at services on the M6 before Birmingham - it was somewhere North of Stafford. The driver said that we will also stop at Northampton services later.

I have never known them do this before. Rather run direct between Liverpool and Birmingham then Birmingham to London stopping at Milton Keynes Coach Way.

There are two drivers on board and this stop was made despite late running. One passenger was not back on board after the 10 minutes given and the drivers went looking for him delaying us more.

I seriously think my 2230 connection out of London Victoria tonight may be missed.

 

[route101]

Have the 550 Liverpool to London services started taking additional rest break stops? I'm on today's 1545 and we stopped at services on the M6 before Birmingham - it was somewhere North of Stafford. The driver said that we will also stop at Northampton services later.

I have never known them do this before. Rather run direct between Liverpool and Birmingham then Birmingham to London stopping at Milton Keynes Coach Way.

There are two drivers on board and this stop was made despite late running. One passenger was not back on board after the 10 minutes given and the drivers went looking for him delaying us more.

I seriously think my 2230 connection out of London Victoria tonight may be missed.

Drivers quite often split the rest breaks up. I was on an overnight 595 from London to Glasgow and we stopped at M6 Toll services and Charnock Richard services. I am not sure on the shorter services, I believe Manchester services get a stop the M6 Toll services. The services from Yorkshire dont get a service stop from looking at timetable.

 

[gray1404]

Drivers quite often split the rest breaks up. I was on an overnight 595 from London to Glasgow and we stopped at M6 Toll services and Charnock Richard services. I am not sure on the shorter services, I believe Manchester services get a stop the M6 Toll services. The services from Yorkshire dont get a service stop from looking at timetable.

Yeah the Manchester ones have a rest break included at toll services. The Liverpool's have only ever had Birmingham so I'm wondering if this is a new addition.

So we left Birmingham 16 minutes late without a break there, but we'd already had one at a services earlier. Another driver took over whom had not done any driving on the service yet.

We were showing as on-time again at MK and London as we neared Northampton services. The driver in the seat asked the other driver if he wanted to give passengers another break and said they didn't need to. His colleague said yes and 15 minutes.

So we've just left MK 20 minutes which seems so unnecessary. My connection out of London I should be ok for provided there are no more delays.

A fair number of passengers came back on board with McDonalds food at Northampton services and it is totally stinking the coach out now and is really unpleasant. There was no announcement about no hot food to be brought back on and no passengers were asked not to bring it on when they returned. I thought NX policy was no hot food.

 

[Eyersey468]

Yeah the Manchester ones have a rest break included at toll services. The Liverpool's have only ever had Birmingham so I'm wondering if this is a new addition.

So we left Birmingham 16 minutes late without a break there, but we'd already had one at a services earlier. Another driver took over whom had not done any driving on the service yet.

We were showing as on-time again at MK and London as we neared Northampton services. The driver in the seat asked the other driver if he wanted to give passengers another break and said they didn't need to. His colleague said yes and 15 minutes.

So we've just left MK 20 minutes which seems so unnecessary. My connection out of London I should be ok for provided there are no more delays.

A fair number of passengers came back on board with McDonalds food at Northampton services and it is totally stinking the coach out now and is really unpleasant. There was no announcement about no hot food to be brought back on and no passengers were asked not to bring it on when they returned. I thought NX policy was no hot food.

Correct, the policy is no hot food, I'm surprised that the drivers didn't remind the passengers about it.

 

[gray1404]

Correct, the policy is no hot food, I'm surprised that the drivers didn't remind the passengers about it.

I'm really surprised too.

These stops at two services on addition to the Birmingham call have really surprised me too.

 

[markymark2000]

Drivers quite often split the rest breaks up. I was on an overnight 595 from London to Glasgow and we stopped at M6 Toll services and Charnock Richard services. I am not sure on the shorter services, I believe Manchester services get a stop the M6 Toll services. The services from Yorkshire dont get a service stop from looking at timetable.

Given the length of the 595, 2 stops would seem fair to split the driving.

M6 Toll services is done because coaches which stop at Norton Cannes get free travel through the toll booths.

Yeah the Manchester ones have a rest break included at toll services. The Liverpool's have only ever had Birmingham so I'm wondering if this is a new addition.

Any bus not stopping in Birmingham tends to take M6 toll to avoid the traffic but then to get free travel on the roll road, they serve Norton Cannes. Any bus which serves Birmingham though, there is no reason for service breaks for driving hours. The only possible excuse for these extra stops would be toilet isn't working so it's a toilet break.

 

[TheSmiths82]

Given the length of the 595, 2 stops would seem fair to split the driving.

M6 Toll services is done because coaches which stop at Norton Cannes get free travel through the toll booths.


Any bus not stopping in Birmingham tends to take M6 toll to avoid the traffic but then to get free travel on the roll road, they serve Norton Cannes. Any bus which serves Birmingham though, there is no reason for service breaks for driving hours. The only possible excuse for these extra stops would be toilet isn't working so it's a toilet break.

Do you know if all National Express services from Manchester stop at the services? I have always avoid getting the coach to London because I worry the toilet won't work and had a nightmare on a Megabus once with no working toilet and the driver refused to let us off for a toilet break during a driver change. I got really annoyed with him and he agreed to let us off, to massive cheers from all the other passengers on the bus.

That said I have got the coach from Manchester to Spain several times, but that company have a policy of stopping every three hours for toilet breaks (well at least they did before the B word )

 

[markymark2000]

Do you if all National Express services from Manchester stop at the services? I have always avoid getting the coach to London because I worry the toilet won't work and had a nightmare on a Megabus once with no working toilet and he refused to let us of for a toilet break during a driver change. I got really annoyed with him and he agreed to let us off, to massive cheers from all the other passengers on the bus.

That said I have got the coach from Manchester to Spain several times, but that company have a policy of stopping every three hours for toilet breaks (well at least they did before the B word )

All of the 540s from Manchester to London are booked to stop at Norton Cannes. Manchester to London 422/424 (the overnight runs) have their scheduled rest break at Birmingham Digbeth Coach Station. The 181/182 from Manchester to Glasgow/Edinburgh have a scheduled stop at Tebay. I don't believe that any other services from Manchester have scheduled service station stops. NatEx is meant to be good at mandating toilet stops though if the coach toilet isn't working.


Best way to see if there is a break en route is to use the timetables pages: https://timetables.nationalexpress.com/. If you search for the route number, it will then give you all of the arrival and departure times, if it's a services it will name the services or sometimes it's just a longer than usual stop at Birmingham Digbeth Coach Station.

 

[TheSmiths82]

All of the 540s from Manchester to London are booked to stop at Norton Cannes. Manchester to London 422/424 (the overnight runs) have their scheduled rest break at Birmingham Digbeth Coach Station. The 181/182 from Manchester to Glasgow/Edinburgh have a scheduled stop at Tebay. I don't believe that any other services from Manchester have scheduled service station stops. NatEx is meant to be good at mandating toilet stops though if the coach toilet isn't working.


Best way to see if there is a break en route is to use the timetables pages: https://timetables.nationalexpress.com/. If you search for the route number, it will then give you all of the arrival and departure times, if it's a services it will name the services or sometimes it's just a longer than usual stop at Birmingham Digbeth Coach Station.

Thanks for that. It is not something I would need to do very often as if it I need to get to London cheap I just go via Crewe and get the London Midland but it is worth knowing for future trips.

 

[Martin1988]

With the exception of Bristol to Edinburgh where there were two scheduled service station stops and a break at Glasgow, all the NX trips I've been on which have involved a service station stop have been unplanned and due to something like the toilet not working or the driver running early.

Remember one trip on the 040 Bristol to London route back in the First days when the onboard toilet was defective so the drivers agreed with NX control to have a stop at Membury Services. Upon arrival there the drivers stated "This is a 5 minute toilet stop only". We were then kept waiting for a passenger who decided to go and queue for a coffee. They got a telling off from the driver when they returned.

Also once ended up on an Arriva Midlands Coach for a journey from London to MK Coachway where the coach lost its wing mirror somewhere near Golders Green so we had to pull into London Gateway Services and wait there until the vehicle could be fixed.

 

[Smethwickian]

New service 788 from 20 October, six times daily each way: Peterborough - Cambridge - Trumpington P&R - Hitchin - Luton Airport - Heathrow Central Bus Station - Heathrow T5.
Be interesting to know if this ever gets advertised in any way.

 

[Deerfold]

New service 788 from 20 October, six times daily each way: Peterborough - Cambridge - Trumpington P&R - Hitchin - Luton Airport - Heathrow Central Bus Station - Heathrow T5.
Be interesting to know if this ever gets advertised in any way.

There's an extension to Peterborough, but that's very like a route i used to catch as a nightbus home from clubbing in Cambridge (although with a couple fewer stops).

Oddly tha National Express website timetable section has times for 6 trips a day from Heathrow, but shows it as only running 2 buses in the other direction and only on 20 October.

They appear in the search. £18.30 Cambridge to Hitchin is quite the increase, though.

 

[Swanny200]

I suppose gone are the days when the NX coaches used to stop especially the over night ones like the 590/591/592 for the drivers to have food and the passengers to smoke, I remember the first time I did the Megabus equivalent, the driver just stopped on a slip road to change drivers, no chance of anyone slipping out for a cigarette

 

[Wilko82]

I am a long time reader of this forum but have only just registered. Regarding some of the recent topics discussed on here I would like to add and share some of my experiences.
I have used the 550 a few times in the past and a few years ago (2015 I think) and from memory there used to be one service per day in each direction that didn't go via Birmingham and was scheduled to use the M6 toll instead. From memory this was an early morning (5am ish) southbound departure and an evening northbound (6pm ish) northbound departure, but I believe all the other 550 services did go via Digbeth. I do recall travelling to Liverpool one night and due to a scheduled M6 overnight closure near Stafford the driver advised us that he would be driving non-stop to Stoke-on-Trent/Hanley to get past the affected section before the closure took place. We did however have a few extra minutes at Hanley for us passengers to stretch our legs and/or have a smoke.
The only other time where I have been on a sevice where there has been a scheduled break was on the old 334 service between Bournemouth and Birmingham which stopped at Chieveley. Having a what routes run between these two places now, there seems to be quirk in the timetable on the 160 service, where there are two services per day in each direction yet only one in each direction has a scheduled service station break.
I also recall making an unscheduled stop on a service between Coventry and London Victoria at what I think was Toddington services where the driver announced that no-one should get off and the only reason he was stopping was that he needed the toilet, he then proceeded to walk up the aisle and use the onboard loo rather than those in the service station.

Regarding the need for services to divert and drivers getting lost the last time I used a National Express service, which was the 205 service to Heathrow back in June there was a scheduled closure of the M3 near Basingstoke. However, the driver advised us of this and that he would need to divert on to the A33 and M4. On the return journey a week later the traffic was horrendous and in between Southampton and Bournemouth, we diverted off the M27/A31. I assume that either the driver had a satnav with real time traffic or the 2nd driver in the crew seat had access to Google maps, as there was no official road closure.
Also about 4 years back I boarded the old 333 at Wolverhampton travelling to Weymouth and when I boarded I was told by the driver that she didn't know the way but she would get me there. When arriving into Bristol she overshot the entrance to the bus station and had to reverse a few yards back to make the turn. Then after that she nearly missed the turn where the A37 meets the A39, in Yeovil she had to ask passengers what way to go to reach the bus station and on exiting she also asked a taxi driver for directions, and when in Weymouth she took a wrong turn, which was when I decided to direct her to the correct stop. To be fair to her this wasn't long after Parks had took over the route from Traveller's Choice, but she should never have been driving the route on her own, but from experience that is how Parks seem to operate and don't care about their employees.

 

[317 forever]

All of the 540s from Manchester to London are booked to stop at Norton Cannes. Manchester to London 422/424 (the overnight runs) have their scheduled rest break at Birmingham Digbeth Coach Station. The 181/182 from Manchester to Glasgow/Edinburgh have a scheduled stop at Tebay. I don't believe that any other services from Manchester have scheduled service station stops. NatEx is meant to be good at mandating toilet stops though if the coach toilet isn't working.


Best way to see if there is a break en route is to use the timetables pages: https://timetables.nationalexpress.com/. If you search for the route number, it will then give you all of the arrival and departure times, if it's a services it will name the services or sometimes it's just a longer than usual stop at Birmingham Digbeth Coach Station.

I have used some NatEx coaches on Manchester routes. We have often but maybe not always stopped at Norton Canes on London journeys. We stopped at Tebay on my Carlisle journey (Edinburgh-bound). I travelled on coaches for Bradford (Leeds-bound) and Newcastle journeys but neither stopped en-route.