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National Express West Midlands Bus Strike

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duncanp

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OK. So the ballot is back on and will take place tomorrow and Saturday. Talk about last minute! I believe the last pay offer has been altered to exclude year 2 and 3 so will be just a 1 year deal as most of the issue was with the fact there were such poor terms after year 1. Hopefully with this news it gives a little more optimism.

Thank you for this update.

I sincerely hope that it is accepted, and that if it is the union and company should sit down and work out a long term deal which takes account of inflation, but also the costs faced by the company, as it is in everyone's interest that the company remains profitable in the long term.
 
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Russel

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This is outrageous, why are the travelling public potentially being disrupted over a disagreement on ballot type?
 

Fleetmaster

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Since all four of those bullet points are 100% illegal, I think it can be safely assumed they didn't happen as described, if at all.

This is why unions are in the toilet right now. To unbiased observers with even the slightest education, if not basic common sense, which you would hope includes all but the greenest of bus drivers, their lies are just this obvious (or if they're not lying, their usefulness to workers is demonstrably zero, since the only logical response to such blatantly illegal behaviour is not to continue negotiating and instead pursue legal action).
The BBC are now reporting that the dispute is over the type of ballot which should take place, ie. whether the ballot should take place during meeting at each garage (as the union wants) or in a confidential ballot (as the company wants).

The company are saying that workplace ballots are illegal, whereas the union argument is that only workplace ballots on taking industrial action are illegal, and that workplace ballots on whether to accept a revised pay offer are still permitted.

If this is the case, surely the way forward would be to take independent legal advice on the matter, and for both sides to abide by the outcome of that opinion.
No legal advice needed. The legal situation is as described.

The union, as often happens, has been quite easily manoeuvred into a situation where they look like the bad guys. Just because public ballots on offers are not illegal, doesn't mean they should not be confidential. Since the union has already publicly stated they want this offer to be rejected, the potential for workers feeling like they should vote a particular way, rather than according to their own thoughts, is real.

Intimidation takes many forms. Peer pressure is a real thing. A pay offer potentially means something wildly different to an old hand close to retirement, than it might to a young parent just trying to keep their head above water.

If a union thinks it can't win a confidential vote, the question has to be asked, why?

What does it have to lose?

(Answer: the only credibility a union has, the idea that it stands for the collective good, not the interests of a few powerful members).
 

DriverNX

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Hi all, so we drivers and engineers will vote on our offer tomorrow and Saturday with the result expected on Sunday or possibly late Saturday evening. If the offer fails then Strike action will be imminent If successful then a 1 year deal will be put in place and industrial action will be averted. Without going into the details of the offer I feel it is a good offer but I also feel the last 2 offers were also fair. All of the last 3 offers have been very similar in value just with different terms and shuffling the money from one place to another in the form of lump sums or year on year rises etc.

I am angry that it has taken this long to get to a vote and I feel the bureaucratic reasons as to why this has happened leaves a lot to learn from. I know some drivers will still reject this offer and quite frankly it wouldn't matter what you offered some of them they will still reject it simply because they have to power to do so. This decision affects thousands of employees not to mention millions of passengers so will not be taken lightly by me and hopefully most of my colleagues will understand this too. I will vote accept tomorrow and I hope my decision matches the majority.

This experience has made me question the motives and the structure of my union and whether they actually need to get their own house in order before taking such swift action against NXWM. I do not feel they have acted in the best interests of the drivers and engineers over the course of the last 10 or so days since the strike action was voted for. They have instead, I feel acted on the wishes of a few more powerful and vocal members. My livelihood is at stake here as are countless others, so if any of my colleagues read this please, forget the politics, forget the distractions, forget what you think of NX or the union. Accept this deal tomorrow. Ask yourself how many other employers are giving staff an increase like this. Yes we put up with a lot, yes we work unsociable hours, yes the conditions we sometimes work in are poor. Most of the population are seeing a 3% increase in their wages this year, most bus drivers compare their wage to that of a HGV driver, this pay deal will level that plain field. I hope this deal also makes the profession more desirable to people from the outside as it is believe it or not a great job!
 
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GusB

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As an offer has been made and we're awaiting the outcome, I'm going to lock the thread until we hear of the result.

Thanks to those who have contributed to the discussion and bigger thanks to everyone for keeping it calm; so many strike-related threads on the forum end up in a toxic bun-fight and I'm glad that we haven't had the same here!

Once there's an update on the result of the ballot we can look at re-opening the thread for further discussion. @DriverNX - as you're at the coal-face, as it were, could you let us know by reporting this post when you have anything further to share?



Thread reopened as @bussnapperwm has an update.
 
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bussnapperwm

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As reported by Tony Hunter, the Fleet Deployment Officer at National Express West Midlands, on his wmbusphotos forum



One group have now agreed a deal

"I'm pleased to tell you that our engineers have voted to accept the pay offer.


The engineering deal is a 14.3% increase in 2023 (and for engineers only, 3.5% in year two).

This is fantastic news. Thank you to everyone who has been involved in this process - I know it's been challenging at times but it's great to see that we've now resolved this issue."
Voting for the drivers pay deal continues.
 

duncanp

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As reported by Tony Hunter, the Fleet Deployment Officer at National Express West Midlands, on his wmbusphotos forum




Voting for the drivers pay deal continues.

The same thread has this contribution from a driver at 01:15 today

From what I saw at my garage we were allowed to vote and were balloted in the manner the union were pushing for. I'm hopeful that a happy ground can be found for us drivers but also for the travelling public because I don't think it's fair for thousands of peoples lives to be almost brought to a halt because they rely on the use of buses to carry out what they need to do day to day

Let's just hope that the outcome for the drivers ballot later today is against a strike, and that services will still be running on Monday, as a strike is in no-one's long term interests.

Then perhaps the union and the company can sit down and talk about a long term pay deal, or if not agree on the factors that need to be considered when negotiating pay (eg. inflation, company turnover, profit margin, staff turnover..etc.)
 

Fleetmaster

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If I were an overall wearing maintenance engineer (and I have been) living in these tough times and I managed to secure a 14.3% rise, while all round people with (imho) far harder jobs with far greater benefit to society are counting themselves lucky to get 5%, and even then only after turning a significant proportion of the public against them for not just appearing to be greedy but downright cruel to their fellow man, I would honestly feel deeply ashamed.
 

Deerfold

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If I were an overall wearing maintenance engineer (and I have been) living in these tough times and I managed to secure a 14.3% rise, while all round people with (imho) far harder jobs with far greater benefit to society are counting themselves lucky to get 5%, and even then only after turning a significant proportion of the public against them for not just appearing to be greedy but downright cruel to their fellow man, I would honestly feel deeply ashamed.
It's not a race to the bottom. You getting a good deal is not at their expense.
 

Mwanesh

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If I were an overall wearing maintenance engineer (and I have been) living in these tough times and I managed to secure a 14.3% rise, while all round people with (imho) far harder jobs with far greater benefit to society are counting themselves lucky to get 5%, and even then only after turning a significant proportion of the public against them for not just appearing to be greedy but downright cruel to their fellow man, I would honestly feel deeply ashamed.
I would disagree with you on that one. It may look easy but look at how engines have changed over the years. The amount of tools you need and class room you need to attend. Every job has a value buses you need a very good engineering team.
 

DriverNX

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I'm not exactly sure, it varies a lot depending on if they work days or nights and the length of their service. I know some of the more highly paid can be earning 40 grand plus before the wage increase. Obviously their job is very specialised though and when you are responsible for the moving parts on multiple vehicles that carry human lives I can understand why. The conditions they work in at my depot is very poor too. Poor lighting, exposed to the elements, outdated work environment etc.

It looks like the drivers deal is rejected. I'm gobsmacked.
 
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Fleetmaster

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It's not a race to the bottom. You getting a good deal is not at their expense.
I would say it is precisely because this deal won't move the needle one iota in the general case (not even in this specific field I imagine, where "good" is a vast understatement), but will quite clearly directly impact a number of people living and working alongside these engineers, key workers in their lives (food, health, environment), that makes it so manifestly wrong imho.
Obviously their job is very specialised though and when you are responsible for the moving parts on multiple vehicles that carry human lives I can understand why. The conditions they work in at my depot is very poor too. Poor lighting, exposed to the elements, outdated work environment etc.
Let's not get carried away though. Harsh conditions, expensive tools and significant responsibility, for good or ill, are not automatically deserving of higher pay in the British workforce.

In general terms, engineers get paid higher for their skills, namely problem solving and/or specialised technical knowledge. Continuing Professional Development is effectively industry standard now, so engineers don't get paid more simply for keeping up with the times.

Since these roles (day to day machinery diagnostics and repair as well as routine maintenance) are definitely at the bottom of the engineering career ladder, with little opportunity to rise higher here without leaving, it is more common to link pay to length of service. This is increasingly seen as harmful to engineering as a whole though, leading to complacency and preventing new entrants, so it's normal these days to expect engineers with no evident career ambitions, to exchange continuing job security with a willingness to roll with the times in the more general sense.

It therefore seems unlikely their skills or knowledge or other utility to the business jumped 14.3% in a year, or have been devalued to that extent over time in comparison to their peers in other industries or even other bus companies. Since NXWM have presumably got a significant chunk of the local bus engineer market, it's a very hard deal to make sense of, if we are assuming market conditions alone were a factor.

A deal this amazing might infect be presumed to have come with spectacular departmental reforms, such as requiring all engineers to participate in the aforementioned Continuing Professional Development program, which would be wise to anyone looking ahead to the changes coming in vehicle design. But unless I missed it, that's not the case here.
 

duncanp

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Looks like the strike is on, unfortunately.

What gets me is that the union general secretary, Sharon Graham, is not very specific about what offer she would find acceptable, nor is there any indication of how much this differs from what the company have offered.

It remains to be seen how well the strike is supported


West Midlands daily bus strikes on after National Express drivers refuse 'improved' pay deal​

The walk-out is set to bring travel chaos to the region as the majority of services will be scrapped

Daily bus strikes will go ahead as planned after National Express drivers voted to refuse a revised pay deal. The walk-out is set to bring travel chaos to the West Midlands as the majority of services will be scrapped.

There was hope the industrial action, which will start on Monday, March 20, would be called off after NX West Midlands made an "improved offer". But following a ballot, it was voted down by 71 per cent of Unite's members.

The refusal means the region will have a limited service "indefinitely" while strikes take place, with most of the buses running being on hospital routes. A full list can be found below.

Unite general secretary, Sharon Graham, said: “National Express is an extremely wealthy company and makes considerable profits from the hard work of our members, who are not paid enough for the difficult and stressful job they do. The company must come back with an offer our members can accept.
 
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centraltrains

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What gets me is that the union general secretary, Sharon Graham, is not very specific about what offer she would find acceptable, nor is there any indication of how much this differs from what the company have offered.
The article posted in post #33 on this thread mentions 19%

National Express has criticised drivers and unions over the industrial action and have argued demands for a 19% pay rise are unreasonable. Drivers have been offered an 11% pay rise but Unite insists it's not enough.


Although I believe they have now mentioned this in two press releases too:
A National Express bus driver’s starting salary begins at just £11.80 an hour, progressing to just over £14 after three years of service. Meanwhile Abellio workers in London are paid £18 an hour after two years of service, which more closely reflects the difficulties and pressures that come with the job (see notes to editors).


The full release from Unite:

West Midland’s bus strike to go ahead Monday after latest offer rejected​


Deal put to more than 3,100 bus drivers voted down by 71% today

All out indefinite strike action by more than 3,100 National Express West Midland’s bus drivers will begin at 00:01 hrs on Monday 20 March (see notes to editors for picket line locations).

The workers voted by 71 per cent against a deal put forward by the company in a ballot held over Friday and Saturday.

Unite general secretary Sharon Graham said: “National Express is an extremely wealthy company and makes considerable profits from the hard work of our members, who are not paid enough for the difficult and stressful job they do. The company must come back with an offer our members can accept.

“Unite’s top priority is defending and improving our members’ jobs, pay and conditions and National Express’ workforce have their union’s full support during these strikes.”


Between 2018 and 2021, average pay at National Express for West Midlands’ bus workers fell by six per cent in real terms with the gap increasing even further in 2022, because of rocketing prices. Meanwhile, over the last 10 years, National Express paid its CEO an average annual salary of £2.6 million. Earlier this month, the company boasted to the Stock Exchange that last year revenues increased 29 per cent to £2.8 billion, with operating profits more than doubling to almost £200 million.

A National Express bus driver’s starting salary begins at just £11.80 an hour, progressing to just over £14 after three years of service. Meanwhile Abellio workers in London are paid £18 an hour after two years of service, which more closely reflects the difficulties and pressures that come with the job.

Due to low pay, National Express has a shortage of around 300 drivers, which is impacting regular services and resulting in buses that should be on the road being stranded in depots.

Unite lead national officer Onay Kasab said: “National Express have said time and again that Unite has not allowed our members a proper say on the pay deals they have put forward. The company’s arguments have now been exposed as hot air. The truth is this: National Express drivers have had enough.

“Our members are clear the offer needs to improve to reflect rising prices and the incredibly hard job they do. This will also benefit West Midlands bus services as it will help solve National Express’ recruitment and retention problems.”


ENDS


Notes to editors:

Picket line locations:

Acocks Green Garage
Fox Hollies Road, Acocks Green, Birmingham, B27 7TZ

Birmingham Central Garage
Liverpool Street, Birmingham, B9 4DS

Coventry Garage
2 Ford Street, Coventry, CV1 5WT

Pensnett Garage
Building 35, Second Avenue, Pensnett Trading Estate, Kingswinford, DY6 7UH

Perry Barr Garage
157 Aston Lane, Handsworth, Birmingham, B20 3BW

Walsall Garage
Carl Street, Walsall, WS2 7BE

West Bromwich Garage

Oak Lane, West Bromwich, B70 8PP

Wolverhampton Garage
Park Lane, Wolverhampton, WV10 9QG

Yardley Wood Garage
Yardley Wood Road, Birmingham, B14 4BN

For media enquires ONLY contact Unite communications officer Ryan Fletcher on 07849 090215.

Email: [email protected]

Twitter: @unitetheunion Facebook: unitetheunion1 Instagram: unitetheunion

Web: unitetheunion.org

Unite is Britain and Ireland’s largest union with members working across all sectors of the economy. The general secretary is Sharon Graham.
 

Mwanesh

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The article posted in post #33 on this thread mentions 19%




Although I believe they have now mentioned this in two press releases too:



The full release from Unite:
19% is a lot. There is anger among passengers. Just been in Birmingham on a bus.
 
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duncanp

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Going to be absolute carnage on Monday.

A "Do Not Travel" warning has been issued.

I think the scale of the disruption will put a lot of pressure on both sides to come to an agreement.

A lot will depend on how well the strike is supported.


Daily bus strikes spark 'do not travel' warning​

The industrial action will start on Monday, March 20, after Unite union members voted to reject the latest pay deal

National Express West Midlands has urged people not to try and travel on its buses unless they "really need to" when a continuous strike gets under way next week. Drivers will be protesting at picket lines across the region as the row over pay rumbles on.

The industrial action will start on Monday, March 20, after Unite union members voted to reject the latest pay deal. Throughout the strike, a limited service, primarily serving major hospitals, will be in operation.

However services will begin to be affected from around 10.30pm on Sunday, March 19, with customers warned to expect some disruption.

A spokesperson for National Express West Midlands said: “We are sorry for the disruption that this will cause across the West Midlands. Our advice to customers is not to try to travel on our buses unless you really need to. As the week goes on, we hope to add back in more services so please check our website for the latest information.

“We are working with our partners to minimise the impact of the disruption in any way we can and we are seeking to bring a speedy resolution to the strike.”


NX West Midlands said drivers rejected the improved offer of a 14.3 per cent pay increase, along with increases to Christmas and New Year’s pay and accident pay. It said the package would have brought an experienced driver salary up to nearly £33,000, and unlocked more than £900 of back pay for a full-time driver.

Unite general secretary, Sharon Graham, said: “National Express is an extremely wealthy company and makes considerable profits from the hard work of our members, who are not paid enough for the difficult and stressful job they do. The company must come back with an offer our members can accept.

“Unite’s top priority is defending and improving our members’ jobs, pay and conditions and National Express’ workforce have their union’s full support during these strikes.”

Check nxbus.co.uk for the latest information throughout the strike action and we'll also be bringing you the latest news as it happens.
 

HST274

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Maybe if the offer had been 2% or even 5% but with the offer close to 15% and the engineers accepting + the amount of commutes by workers and kids disrupted, I suspect support for the strike will be relatively low and then will get lower as the strike goes on.
 
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duncanp

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Maybe if the offer hard been 2% or even 5% but with the offer close to 15% and the engineers accepting + the amount of commutes by workers and kids disrupted, I suspect support for the strike will be relatively low and then will get lower as the strike goes on.

The level of support for the strike is what will concentrate the minds of the union leadership.

The company will also be wanting to see how well the strike is supported before making their next move.

You may find that they arrange talks with the union sometime later next week, and that any slight change to the terms of the pay offer will allow the union to claim victory and call off the strike.

The union say that they want a pay rise of 19%, but in reality the probably will settle for less than that.
 

Fleetmaster

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Meanwhile, over the last 10 years, National Express paid its CEO an average annual salary of £2.6 million. Earlier this month, the company boasted to the Stock Exchange that last year revenues increased 29 per cent to £2.8 billion, with operating profits more than doubling to almost £200 million.
So how much of that £200 million is down to the West Midlands bus operation?
A National Express bus driver’s starting salary begins at just £11.80 an hour, progressing to just over £14 after three years of service. Meanwhile Abellio workers in London are paid £18 an hour after two years of service, which more closely reflects the difficulties and pressures that come with the job.
So the difference is one year and £4 an hour? That's 22% more*.
 
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Mwanesh

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So how much of that £200 million is down to the West Midlands bus operation?

So the difference is one year and £4 an hour? That's 22% more*.
The UK operation made 25million. That's West Midlands, National Express Coaches and Transport Solutions. Most of that 200 million is from abroad.
 

DriverNX

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Hi all,

I just wanted to share my thoughts on the upcoming strikes. As a driver in the Union I have made the decision not to strike and will be crossing the picket line on Monday to help move as many people as I can around the Midlands. I think it is a disgrace how the Union have dealt with the pay offer and how drivers have just rather thoughtlessly gone into this industrial action.

I have found myself very angry and frustrated at some of the outlandish reasons drivers voted to reject such as 'I'll get to go fishing for £70 a day' and, 'because everyone else was voting reject'. I fear for the future of the company I work for and my job now. I cannot see how a better deal can be sustainable. The real losers in all of this ofcourse will be the poorest and most vulnerable in society.

How anyone, let alone 80% of my colleagues can think 14.3% is an unfair pay rise is completely unbeknown to me. I cannot out of moral principal go on strike when I was happy with the pay offer on the table and I cannot stand with colleagues of mine who have seemingly become disillusioned by what they deserve financially. Greed is what it boils down to and in the long run they will lose out financially by striking for however long. I'm sorry but I refuse to lose a penny to support the cause, I refuse to struggle to pay my bills and I refuse to be a part of bringing the West Midlands buses to a grinding halt.

I have also made the decision to revoke my membership to the Union as I have disagreed with how they have handled the negotiations and changed their minds of pay offers and recommendations as well as arguing amongst themselves. The latest pay offer was within the parameters of what the Union was demanding. They initially recommended us to accept before then removing that condition. This along with other factors resulted in the ballot almost being pulled. The company improved its offer AGAIN and the Union still would not recommend it and instead kept it as a free vote.

From my view point the company has made fair offers along the way with exception to the first offer. Each offer has been followed on by a better one during negotiations and still more is wanted from the Union. I am also pretty fed up with the Union constantly quoting NX Group financial performance. This has got absolutely nothing to do with our pay deal. We are a small subsidiary of the entire group which is currently not turning a profit and is being supported by subsidies.

Public opinion will not be on the side of the Union I feel. It is embarrassing to read articles where it publishes the figures we have refused as most working people wouldn't dream of this kind of raise even in the current climate.

I hope the strike will be short and swift and we can get back to normal quickly. I am sorry to those who will be directly and indirectly affected by this and hope I will be able to work safely from Monday onwards to try and contribute positively.
 

Russel

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I have also made the decision to revoke my membership to the Union as I have disagreed with how they have handled the negotiations and changed their minds of pay offers and recommendations as well as arguing amongst themselves. The latest pay offer was within the parameters of what the Union was demanding. They initially recommended us to accept before then removing that condition. This along with other factors resulted in the ballot almost being pulled. The company improved its offer AGAIN and the Union still would not recommend it and instead kept it as a free vote.

I've also recently revoked my membership to Unite, we were balloted for strike action last year in my company and I found the way Unite handled the whole situation was pretty dire, to the point where disinformation was rife and Unite made no effort to correct anything.

I didn't vote for strike action as I was happy with the pay deal on offer, I could also see the long term damage it would cause and the impact it could have on my future employment status, however far too many people did vote yes to strike action simply due to peer pressure, which I'm guessing is also what has happened at NXWM.
 

duncanp

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Hi all,

I just wanted to share my thoughts on the upcoming strikes. As a driver in the Union I have made the decision not to strike and will be crossing the picket line on Monday to help move as many people as I can around the Midlands. I think it is a disgrace how the Union have dealt with the pay offer and how drivers have just rather thoughtlessly gone into this industrial action.

I have found myself very angry and frustrated at some of the outlandish reasons drivers voted to reject such as 'I'll get to go fishing for £70 a day' and, 'because everyone else was voting reject'. I fear for the future of the company I work for and my job now. I cannot see how a better deal can be sustainable. The real losers in all of this ofcourse will be the poorest and most vulnerable in society.

How anyone, let alone 80% of my colleagues can think 14.3% is an unfair pay rise is completely unbeknown to me. I cannot out of moral principal go on strike when I was happy with the pay offer on the table and I cannot stand with colleagues of mine who have seemingly become disillusioned by what they deserve financially. Greed is what it boils down to and in the long run they will lose out financially by striking for however long. I'm sorry but I refuse to lose a penny to support the cause, I refuse to struggle to pay my bills and I refuse to be a part of bringing the West Midlands buses to a grinding halt.

I have also made the decision to revoke my membership to the Union as I have disagreed with how they have handled the negotiations and changed their minds of pay offers and recommendations as well as arguing amongst themselves. The latest pay offer was within the parameters of what the Union was demanding. They initially recommended us to accept before then removing that condition. This along with other factors resulted in the ballot almost being pulled. The company improved its offer AGAIN and the Union still would not recommend it and instead kept it as a free vote.

From my view point the company has made fair offers along the way with exception to the first offer. Each offer has been followed on by a better one during negotiations and still more is wanted from the Union. I am also pretty fed up with the Union constantly quoting NX Group financial performance. This has got absolutely nothing to do with our pay deal. We are a small subsidiary of the entire group which is currently not turning a profit and is being supported by subsidies.

Public opinion will not be on the side of the Union I feel. It is embarrassing to read articles where it publishes the figures we have refused as most working people wouldn't dream of this kind of raise even in the current climate.

I hope the strike will be short and swift and we can get back to normal quickly. I am sorry to those who will be directly and indirectly affected by this and hope I will be able to work safely from Monday onwards to try and contribute positively.

Thank you.

It will be interesting to see how many of your colleagues feel the same way as you. The novelty of going fishing for £70 per day will soon wear off once the bills start coming in, and people realise the long term implications of being on strike.

If enough drivers go to work on Monday the union will soon change its mind, and I think the company are also waiting to see the level of support for the strike before deciding their next move.

Public opinion will also be a deciding factor, and there there has already been some hostile ( to the union) comments in the Birmingham Mail.

I also think that you are being used by Sharon Graham, the new union leader, who is trying to make a name for herself within the wider trade union movement by copying the militant tactics of Mick Lynch and the RMT.

I will be watching to see what happens on Monday with interest, and if there is a service on the 12/12A, 13/13A, 11A/11C,48 or 82 I will be using it to go somewhere, just to stick two fingers up at the union as well.

What routes do you usually drive?

We might even come across each other without knowing it.
 
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DriverNX

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I've also recently revoked my membership to Unite, we were balloted for strike action last year in my company and I found the way Unite handled the whole situation was pretty dire, to the point where disinformation was rife and Unite made no effort to correct anything.

I didn't vote for strike action as I was happy with the pay deal on offer, I could also see the long term damage it would cause and the impact it could have on my future employment status, however far too many people did vote yes to strike action simply due to peer pressure, which I'm guessing is also what has happened at NXWM.
Peer pressure was definitely a factor. I voted to accept at the ballot box. There was nowhere provided to do it confidentially and it was done amongst other drivers I'm the break room area. As I was pretty much unable to hide my vote I had to defend my decision at the ballot box to drivers and reps. Fortunately I'm not a sheep and do not blindly follow the crowd. It's disgusting how the whole thing has been handled. It is not illegal nor immoral for companies to make large profits, I can never understand why it is treated so. The Union is the school playground bully in this scenario and NXWM is having his lunch money taken as 3000 drivers look on like a mob of laughing kids.
 

Fleetmaster

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The dominance of NX in the market is clearly a factor in the union's tactics, but the irony is that if West Midlands gets franchised and NX either don't win it or don't bid because their wages are uncompetitive, the winning bidder can use that exact same leverage to re-hire these exact same drivers on far lower wages.
 
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Typhoon

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Location
Kent
The UK operation made 25million. That's West Midlands, National Express Coaches and Transport Solutions. Most of that 200 million is from abroad.
The workforce need to be careful, National Express does not have the links with bus travel that other large operators have, and Network West Midlands might wish to reduce the region's reliance on one very large operator (subtly).

From #75
A National Express bus driver’s starting salary begins at just £11.80 an hour, progressing to just over £14 after three years of service. Meanwhile Abellio workers in London are paid £18 an hour after two years of service, which more closely reflects the difficulties and pressures that come with the job.
No comparison with London wages holds water, 'London weighting' is a pretty common across a large number of industries. If they are going to offer a comparison, it needs to be realistic. I worry that the Union is gambling a pretty high stake with not that great a hand. I doubt whether Diamond, Stagecoach or D&G pay as well.
 

Sprinter107

Member
Joined
26 Mar 2019
Messages
937
Thank you.

It will be interesting to see how many of your colleagues feel the same way as you. The novelty of going fishing for £70 per day will soon wear off once the bills start coming in, and people realise the long term implications of being on strike.

If enough drivers go to work on Monday the union will soon change its mind, and I think the company are also waiting to see the level of support for the strike before deciding their next move.

Public opinion will also be a deciding factor, and there there has already been some hostile ( to the union) comments in the Birmingham Mail.

I also think that you are being used by Sharon Graham, the new union leader, who is trying to make a name for herself within the wider trade union movement by copying the militant tactics of Mick Lynch and the RMT.

I will be watching to see what happens on Monday with interest, and if there is a service on the 12/12A, 13/13A, 11A/11C,48 or 82 I will be using it to go somewhere, just to stick two fingers up at the union as well.

What routes do you usually drive?

We might even come across each other without knowing it.
Those are the bus routes I use too, apart from the 82, but I dont think there's a service on any of them after today.
 

duncanp

Established Member
Joined
16 Aug 2012
Messages
4,856
No comparison with London wages holds water, 'London weighting' is a pretty common across a large number of industries. If they are going to offer a comparison, it needs to be realistic. I worry that the Union is gambling a pretty high stake with not that great a hand. I doubt whether Diamond, Stagecoach or D&G pay as well.

The £18 per hour paid to Abellio workers in London reflects the higher cost of living in London, and Sharon Graham is well aware of this, but presumably is hoping that the general public aren't.

It is somewhat disquieting that the ballot was not conducted in secret.

This leaves open the accusation that members can be subject to peer pressure and bullying, both before and after the ballot takes place.

I wouldn't be surprised if the government doesn't make this type of workplace ballot illegal in the future, as well as introducing legislation to tax strike pay paid by the union.

On the National Express website, they are saying that they hope to operate more services than those already announced, depending on how many drivers turn up for work.

When I lived in London over 30 years ago, there was a strike on the buses, which lead to all services being suspended for two weeks, but eventually led to the break up of the bus company and closure of one garage. I hope this would serve as a warning to the union of what could happen if the settlement of the strike leads to National Express West Midlands becoming less profitable, or even loss making.

I feel sorry for all those drivers such as @DriverNX who are effectively being bullied by the union into going on strike, and will have to suffer the long term consequences well after the strike is over, unlike Sharon Graham, of course. As indeed will us passengers, in the form of higher fares and cuts to marginal services and routes.


London Forest​


London Forest[1] was a subsidiary of London Buses that operated services between April 1989 and November 1991.

London Forest was formed as one of the eleven operating units of London Buses in readiness for privatisation. It commenced operating on 1 April 1989, being managed by Tom Young, who had previously worked for Midland Red North before moving to London Transport.[2] The company employed around 1,300 staff[3] and owned 370 buses.

The company initially operated from garages in Ash Grove, Walthamstow and Leyton on a network of routes in North-East London.[4] Clapton garage was later added: this had been closed in 1987, but reopened as an outstation of Leyton and later regained full depot status. The company's logo was a stylised image of an oak tree.

Forest was wound up in 1991 when the tenders to operate eleven routes in the Walthamstow area were won on the basis of reduced costs. A proposed wage cut and closure of Leyton garage led to strike action which saw the routes lost. Walthamstow garage was closed, and the remaining garages and operations taken over by other London Buses subsidiaries.[4]

In May 1991, all 11 London Forest routes in the Walthamstow area came up for re-tendering. Forest won the contracts to operate all of the routes, but found that it had bid too low for the work and was forced to cut wages. Reports differ as to the cut proposed, with 9.5%,[3] 18%[4] 21%[5] and no pay cut if a 20% increase in the working week was accepted[6] all suggested. London Forest's management also announced that they intended to close Leyton garage.[7]

In July 1991, all of the company's 1,300 staff at its four garages went out on strike against these changes, leading to the suspension of services for two weeks.[8] This was the first official strike by London bus drivers since 1958, and prompted Harry Cohen, the Member of Parliament for Leyton, to issue an Early day motion in the House of Commons.[3] The company was forced to abandon the routes, with work taken on by Country Bus & Coach, Ensignbus and Thamesway.[9]

Ensignbus, whose bus operations had recently been acquired by Hong Kong operator Citybus, used the opportunity to launch a new brand, Capital Citybus on the routes it had won.[10] Following the loss of these routes it was announced that Walthamstow garage, operational since 1905, would close;[4] Leyton was retained in its place, initially temporarily.[9]
Legacy
Following the closure of London Forest, no large packages of tenders were offered at once by London Buses.[4] Ash Grove garage reopened in 1994 for temporary use by Kentish Bus, and reopened fully in 2000 with the formation of East Thames Buses. East Thames later moved to another site, with CT Plus moving in. Arriva London operated former Forest route 38 from the garage between 2005 and 2009.[12] Walthamstow garage never reopened and was redeveloped as housing, although the office building remains.[13] Tom Young went on to operate West Midlands independent Choice Travel.[2]

Tom Young resigned as Managing Director of London Forest on 20 August 1991.[8] Despite the fact that the company still had three garages and 250 buses, London Transport decided that London Forest would be wound up on 21 November 1991.[9] Ash Grove garage was also closed and its routes split between other London Transport subsidiaries in the area, while Leyton was transferred to the East London division and Clapton to Leaside Buses.

Those are the bus routes I use too, apart from the 82, but I dont think there's a service on any of them after today.

There may well be a service on some of these routes, depending on how many drivers turn up for work, and at which garage.
 
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