National Rail & British Transport Police campaign regarding sexual harassment on the Railway

[stuu]

That's an excellent way of putting it.

Seconded

 

[ComUtoR]

I just don't get why someone would feel the need to label my hobby

Nobody is labelling your hobby. However, you have to accept that those "on the spectrum" lean towards certain hobbies. One of which is train spotting. One of which would be stamp collecting. I haven't suggested anyone and everyone is the same but you and indeed I, have to accept that it is true. No offence is intended, just an acceptance.

I specifically posted in response to a comment from Alter Ego because my Son would be one of those people who just doesn't understand the 'nuances of human behaviour' This is the kind of poster he sees and comes home and has to have an hour long discussion over it. Accepting the fact that some train spotters may be Autistic and forumites may also be "on the spectrum" comes as a first step in understanding the potential reaction and lack of understanding some people may have.

 

[Journeyman]

Not you, the original poster.

Yeah, he's effectively saying he has a divine right to stare at people.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Nobody is labelling your hobby. However, you have to accept that those "on the spectrum" lean towards certain hobbies. One of which is train spotting. Once of which would be stamp collecting. I haven't suggested anyone and everyone is the same but you and indeed I, have to accept that it is true. No offence is intended, just an acceptance.

I specifically posted in response to a comment from Alter Ego because my Son would be one of those people who just doesn't understand the 'nuances of human behaviour' This is the kind of poster he sees and comes home and has to have an hour long discussion over it. Accepting the fact that some train spotters may be Autistic and forumites may also be "on the spectrum" comes as a first step in understanding the potential reaction and lack of understanding some people may have.

I do understand that all completely, my brother is the same and will do the exact same about posters like this and analyse it.

As for lack of acceptance of hobbies etc from some people, I get this a lot. Usually by people my own age, rarely are they older. The names I have been called while on platform cannot be repeated here, and it’s worse when my girlfriend is around because she doesn’t deserve it.

People just need to accept other people interests, not attack them.

 

[NoOnesFool]

Yeah, he's effectively saying he has a divine right to stare at people.

We all have a right to look where we like. I really can't believe what you are saying, has to be a wind up surely?

 

[ComUtoR]

It's not personal, but when people say on the spectrum in writing in speechmarks or especially when they change the tone (higher or lower or put on a silly voice) when saying it in person, it really grinds my gears.

Personally, I couldn't give a flying fork either way. Righteous indignation helps nobody. What also doesn't help is treating my Son as being 'different'. All he really needs is understanding and respect.

People just need to accept other people interests, not attack them.

Nobody is being attacked here.

 

[skyhigh]

We all have a right to look where we like. I really can't believe what you are saying, has to be a wind up surely?

To be honest, I think most people reading this thread would think you're the wind up

 

[NoOnesFool]

To be honest, I think most people reading this thread would think you're the wind up

If you are upset by being looked at, then you are going to live a very sad little life. People stare, people like to watch other people. I often sit on a bench observing other people, I'm curious and it's called people watching. I don't want to live in a world where people are afraid to look at one another and where staring is a crime. England is supposed to be a 'free' country, not Nazi Germany.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Personally, I couldn't give a flying fork either way. Righteous indignation helps nobody. What also doesn't help is treating my Son as being 'different'. All he really needs is understanding and respect.

I wouldn't say it's righeous indignation, but rather standing up for something which I am passionate about. You're right, he does.

Nobody is being attacked here.

Not here, but in the real world outside of this forum people are which is extremely sad.

 

[WelshBluebird]

If you are upset by being looked at, then you are going to live a very sad little life. People stare, people like to watch other people. I often sit on a bench observing other people, I'm curious and it's called people watching. I don't want to live in a world where people are afraid to look at one another and where staring is a crime. England is supposed to be a 'free' country, not Nazi Germany.

There is a massive huge difference between being upset at being looked at and being stared at up and down continuously because the person is a pervert. If you can't see that then God help you.

 

[mmh]

Good luck with that.

Indeed. I would hugely recommend against sending any "I don't agree with this anti-abuse campaign" message to a police force if the only reason for sending it is to self-confirm some sort of your own hubris at the wording of the campaign.

That is how you end up with things recorded against your name on the PNC which you really don't want. And it's public knowledge the police record all kinds of things about citizens not related to a crime.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

To be honest, I think most people reading this thread would think you're the wind up

Well, you said it.

If you are upset by being looked at, then you are going to live a very sad little life. People stare, people like to watch other people. I often sit on a bench observing other people, I'm curious and it's called people watching. I don't want to live in a world where people are afraid to look at one another and where staring is a crime. England is supposed to be a 'free' country, not Nazi Germany.

You don't ahve to be afraid of looking at someone, you just need to be mindful of that person and how long you are staring for. You have definitly opened a hornets nest with your comments, some of them valid, some not, but you need to accept the differing opinions on here.

 

[NoOnesFool]

Indeed. I would hugely recommend against sending any "I don't agree with this anti-abuse campaign" mess

Have you even read the thread? You are strongly mis-representing my point. I have no problem with anti abuse campaigns, I have problem with anti staring campaigns that imply staring is a criminal offence. And people can argue that it is only sexual staring (whatever that is) but really the difference is irrelevant as you can never differentiate unless you are a mind reader.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

There is a massive huge difference between being upset at being looked at and being stared at up and down continuously because the person is a pervert. If you can't see that then God help you.

The issue, and real debate here, is where do you draw the line between the two that divides them?

This is an entirely personal issues and varies from person to person and is purely emotional and emotions don't work in court because again, they aren't consistant so can't be measured.

 

[Journeyman]

We all have a right to look where we like. I really can't believe what you are saying, has to be a wind up surely?

Actually, no, it isn't. Your views are staggeringly ignorant and obnoxious.

Look at how many people are supporting you here. Clue: it's not many.

 

[NoOnesFool]

The issue, and real debate here, is where do you draw the line between the two that divides them?

This is an entirely personal issues and varies from person to person and is purely emotional and emotions don't work in court because again, they aren't consistant so can't be measured.

Which is part of the reason why I think staring should have been omitted from this little 'campaign'.

 

[mmh]

I see this thread is full of people who aren’t able to understand the nuances of human behaviour. No, nobody is going to arrest you for looking at scenery.

Yes, there is a remarkable display of social incompetence and autistic views in some posts in this thread. Which, given we're a train enthusiasts forum, suggests the campaign is an appropriate thing for the BTP to do.

 

[NoOnesFool]

Actually, no, it isn't. Your views are staggeringly ignorant and obnoxious.

Look at how many people are supporting you here. Clue: it's not many.

It's not a popularity contest, it's a forum for debate and discussion. If you read the thread properly you would notice that quite a significant number of people agree with my points.

 

[py_megapixel]

Yes, there is a remarkable display of social incompetence and autistic views in some posts in this thread. Which, given we're a train enthusiasts forum, suggests the campaign is an appropriate thing for the BTP to do.

In case you hadn't got the impression from the other posts of this thread, it is disingenuous to describe the difficulties autistic people experience within society as "incompetence".

 

[NoOnesFool]

Yes, there is a remarkable display of social incompetence and autistic views in some posts in this thread. Which, given we're a train enthusiasts forum, suggests the campaign is an appropriate thing for the BTP to do.

Utter nonsense and insulting to those who have loved ones with autism.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Which is part of the reason why I think staring should have been omitted from this little 'campaign'.

That maybe so, but it's the way you have worded several things that are leading some to believe that this is somekind of wind up "campaign"? See what I did there?

No? Okay.

 

[Journeyman]

Yes, there is a remarkable display of social incompetence and autistic views in some posts in this thread. Which, given we're a train enthusiasts forum, suggests the campaign is an appropriate thing for the BTP to do.

Exactly.

On a few occasions in my life, I've been told that things I've done in good faith have upset, distressed or made people feel unsafe. On those occasions, I've learned and strived to do better in future. It's pretty shocking that the go-to reaction of some here is to get the raging hump and claim persecution.

 

[NoOnesFool]

That maybe so, but it's the way you have worded several things that are leading some to believe that this is somekind of wind up "campaign"? See what I did there?

No? Okay.

I don't see how me having an opinion that is different to some others is a "wind up campaign". I actually agreed with some of the points you made.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Yes, there is a remarkable display of social incompetence and autistic views in some posts in this thread. Which, given we're a train enthusiasts forum, suggests the campaign is an appropriate thing for the BTP to do.

Wow. Have you not read the thread? I hope not as if you have done and still posted that you must be looking for an arguement. I would prefer if you didn't use autism as an insult which, regardless of what you say, you just have.

 

[py_megapixel]

Honestly I think with hindsight it would have been better for the discussion of ASD to go in its own thread, as people are now starting to conflate two issues. Autistic people are going to struggle with societal conventions - it's a fact we have to accept and they presumably are not who the poster campaign is aimed at.

People are now starting to be drawn into using "autistic" to refer to the category who this poster campaign is aimed at - people who harass other people on public transport - which is quite offensive to people who are autistic (many of whom would never dream of doing such a thing and fully understand why it is unacceptable), or even those who are close to people who are.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The issue, and real debate here, is where do you draw the line between the two that divides them?

This is an entirely personal issues and varies from person to person and is purely emotional and emotions don't work in court because again, they aren't consistant so can't be measured.

You and the person I was replying to keep trying to make a connection between the two totally different kinds of behaviour. There isn't one. Someone eyeing you up and down continuously (which is pretty much what the campaign is talking about) is a pretty specific behaviour that is not likely to be confused for anything more innocent. Simply catching someone's eye or looking at someone as you just go about your business is entirely different. And you know what, if your behaviour is making someone feel uncomfortable because you are inadvertently starting at them - then maybe take that advice on board!

 

[Charlie Smythe]

I don't see how me having an opinion that is different to some others is a "wind up campaign". I actually agreed with some of the points you made.

It was a joke, you missed the pun. "Wind up campaign" is used in day to day chatter and since this is about a campaign I thought it would be funny, I chuckled.

 

[Journeyman]

It's not a popularity contest

Just as well.

Honestly, are you just being deliberately obtuse? It seems like you make no consideration for others' feelings at all. You belittled my idea of crossing the road if walking behind a lone female at night. Why?

 

[NoOnesFool]

You and the person I was replying to keep trying to make a connection between the two totally different kinds of behaviour. There isn't one. Someone eyeing you up and down is a pretty specific behaviour that is not likely to be confused for anything more innocent.

Could you describe, in your opinion what characteristics of a stare make it sexual, is there a certain way that you believe makes it sexual? As far as I am aware, eyeballs are not sex organs.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

You and the person I was replying to keep trying to make a connection between the two totally different kinds of behaviour. There isn't one. Someone eyeing you up and down continuously (which is pretty much what the campaign is talking about) is a pretty specific behaviour that is not likely to be confused for anything more innocent. Simply catching someone's eye or looking at someone as you just go about your business is entirely different.

I am not connecting them, I am just asking how you're seperating them as one womens idea of something is differant to anothers.

This is such a hard thing to measure and an ever harder thing to label.